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BEAR-CUB

Does God expect to be worshipped by humans?

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GoldenWolf

If religious adherents are going down, it is in negligible numbers.

FT_17.04.05_projectionsUpdate_globalPop6

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BEAR-CUB
1 hour ago, GoldenWolf said:

If religious adherents are going down, it is in negligible numbers.

FT_17.04.05_projectionsUpdate_globalPop6

Well the most likely reason why more people are believers is because there has been a population explosion within the last 60 years; therefore in real terms there’s no increase in the popularity of religion. The opinion I expressed earlier about the decline in religions is based on academic research. 

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Desertrat56
1 hour ago, GoldenWolf said:

If religious adherents are going down, it is in negligible numbers.

FT_17.04.05_projectionsUpdate_globalPop6

in what country?

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jmccr8
19 hours ago, and then said:

Can you think of anyone or anything that would deserve worship MORE than a Creator that was responsible for the existence of all things? 

Hi And then

Personally I don't worship anything or anyone, but I do appreciate others, experiences and things.

19 hours ago, and then said:

I can't.  Without that Creator, nothing would exist. 

I don't know that but do know that I live in an explainable living world that does exist.

19 hours ago, and then said:

The question seems to be not whether the Creator is worthy of worship but if it is to be believed at all, and we each have a choice in that regard.  

Agreed

jmccr8

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Horta
On 5/7/2020 at 5:15 AM, BEAR-CUB said:

My understanding of ‘god’ is that ‘god’ is a perfect being, who looks at every subject from every conceivable angle before passing judgment, it is never guilty of emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions. An entity that has provided all life-forms with tools needed to survive on the physical plane.

This god would have some explaining to do. The system of nature it has set up is horrific for most life forms, basically the daily struggle to eat and survive, find a mate, before meeting a painful end often from disease or predators. This plan doesn't indicate a "perfect being" as much as a deranged a--hole. If this is the best it can come up with, there's nothing to be terribly impressed with.

Quote

The above are just 2 examples of a ‘perfect’ being (god). On the other hand I have asked myself “What is a imperfect being?”; after debating this with myself, I arrived at the following conclusions: a imperfect being is someone who is a narcissist, arrogant, and egotistical; yet these 3 descriptions are typical to be found in people who demand to be worshipped; therefore if god demands to be worshipped as mainstream religious leaders would have us believe, then god cannot be a perfect being, therefore cannot be god, as narcissism, arrogance, and ego are flaws, as religions preach. Therefore I believe that ‘worshiping god is a human-construct, not god’s instructions to humans. Considering all of the above points,  I have arrived at my own conclusion that ‘God doesn’t  demand or expect to be worshipped’. I was raised by a mother who is a follower of a Indian spiritual path, not a religion; according to instructions to followers, we are not expected to worship god; instead we engage in transcendental meditation for the purpose of establishing a spiritual connection with god. I have set the ball in motion, now it’s on your side of the court, therefore upto you to argue your case. 

I agree. The narcissistic, psychopathic god of mainstream religion is a man made concept epitomising all of the character flaws of a bronze/iron age warlord. Thankfully it doesn't exist. If it did humanity would need to pour a lot of it's scientific resourses towards finding a way to rid the universe of such thing.

So god either doesn't exist and therefore worshipping it is silly (which would seem to be the reality), or if it wants to be admired and worshipped is a narcissist and not worth worshipping.

Edited by Horta
spelling.
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simplybill

*snip*

Edited by simplybill

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onlookerofmayhem
9 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Just curious: where does the Bible say that God demands worship? I’ve read the Bible, but I don’t recall ever seeing that.

I'm not sure if the word demand is actually used, but it is heavily implied throughout the bible that worshipping god puts you in a favorable position. 

https://www.openbible.info/topics/worship

One of many examples:

 

John 4:23-24 ESV / 73 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

"But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Pretty much the entire book of Psalms is about worshipping god.

It's pretty clear that by worshipping god you gained favor. 

I see it as implied because if you didn't worship god you were much less likely to be in his grace or have your prayers answered. 

I guess it's definitely debatable if any god actually demands to be worshipped, but it's pretty implicit as an objective reader of the bible that one should worship that particular one. Or else what was the whole "no other gods before me" commandment?

But If not, how the did whole "house of worship" thing get so engrained in the religion? Are all the people wrong for worshipping god? Does it reward them with nothing ultimately?

What about the whole sacrifice charade?

Did god really want or need any of that?

 

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simplybill
1 hour ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Did god really want or need any of that?

Thanks for replying, onlookerofmayhem.

My personal perspective on worship (which may not necessarily be the actual Biblical perspective) derives from my experience as an alcoholic. What started out as everyday social drinking led to a complete relinquishment of my life to alcohol. It took over my life so completely that even my jokes and sense of humor were centered on alcohol and drinking. IMO, my ‘obedience’ to alcohol was essentially an act of worship to a false god.

 The night my marriage ended, I had a moment of clarity that showed me what my addiction was leading me into. I stopped drinking that night, found a good church, and got serious about living a life influenced by Jesus and biblical principles rather than alcohol and the intense selfishness of an alcoholic mind. As time goes on, I’m increasingly in awe of how His ways are better than mine. A natural outcome of that awe is that I often stop and think, “You’re awesome”. 

 

 

 

Edited by simplybill
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Coil
10 hours ago, Horta said:

This god would have some explaining to do. The system of nature it has set up is horrific for most life forms, basically the daily struggle to eat and survive, find a mate, before meeting a painful end often from disease or predators. This plan doesn't indicate a "perfect being" as much as a deranged a--hole. If this is the best it can come up with, there's nothing to be terribly impressed with.

In fact, eating and survival at the expense of another is imposed on nature and man by demonic forces where the law of power rules. This happens on Earth and Venus, and on Mars there is no strongest law on other material levels and people eat fruits and vegetables.

And on even more elevated and distant planets of our solar system, people drink water alone and have enough energy for a whole week and creatures do not care about food because there is water everywhere. Therefore, our world is so cruel because it is far from God and not because God specifically created such a world.

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Horta
21 minutes ago, Coil said:

In fact, eating and survival at the expense of another is imposed on nature and man by demonic forces where the law of power rules. This happens on Earth and Venus, and on Mars there is no strongest law on other material levels and people eat fruits and vegetables.

And on even more elevated and distant planets of our solar system, people drink water alone and have enough energy for a whole week and creatures do not care about food because there is water everywhere. Therefore, our world is so cruel because it is far from God and not because God specifically created such a world.

How can these demonic forces be verified? Have you done this, if so, how did you do it?

Wouldn't it be somewhat meaningless speaking of "a whole week" on most other planets in any meaningful way, compared to earth? Or are you saying a length of time "comparable to one week on earth"?

Then again, re the water claim, how could you possibly know that?

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/days/en/

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Coil
5 hours ago, Horta said:

How can these demonic forces be verified? Have you done this, if so, how did you do it?

Wouldn't it be somewhat meaningless speaking of "a whole week" on most other planets in any meaningful way, compared to earth? Or are you saying a length of time "comparable to one week on earth"?

Then again, re the water claim, how could you possibly know that?


Demonic forces are simply strong on earth, they invaded here even when physical life began to take shape on the planet but the angels drove them out of our world, so they harm from other levels but even at the beginning they were able to invade the animal world and establish the law of eating the lower. So a predatory world was formed but still there were herbivores. And both were fixed in a person because it contains both bad and good. But the plant world avoided the fate of devouring each other, therefore very few creatures that eat the weak or parasitize on trees.

Well, simply by their time, this is our week of time. Well, their bodies weigh much less than ours and they live from 500 years or more.
I need a few days to translate about life on other planets and to create a theme, there’s just not enough time now. I will notify you when everything is ready.And you will find out why such a life on earth and on other planets better.

Edited by Coil
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Rlyeh
9 hours ago, Coil said:

In fact, eating and survival at the expense of another is imposed on nature and man by demonic forces where the law of power rules.

How did metabolism work before demons invaded?

 

9 hours ago, Coil said:

This happens on Earth and Venus, and on Mars there is no strongest law on other material levels and people eat fruits and vegetables.

The sheer stupidity here isn't even worth correcting.

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XenoFish

If God expects to be worshiped, perhaps it isn't a god worth worshiping. 

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onlookerofmayhem
15 hours ago, simplybill said:

I stopped drinking that night, found a good church, and got serious about living a life influenced by Jesus and biblical principles rather than alcohol and the intense selfishness of an alcoholic mind. As time goes on, I’m increasingly in awe of how His ways are better than mine. A natural outcome of that awe is that I often stop and think, “You’re awesome”. 

Firstly, I'm glad you overcame your struggles with alcohol. I'm not in the program, but many friends and relatives are.

But in a way I find  your story to be somewhat of a tale of replacing your addiction. Swapping booze for Jesus. I know the program advocates acknowledging a higher power, but I think it has more to do with taking the weight of the world off of one's own shoulders. 

Not that it's a bad thing at all. Replacing a negative addiction with a positive one is a good thing.

But I've never understood people who try to be like Jesus. You can't. If the bible is an accurate depiction, which I don't for a second believe, one is trying to emulate god incarnate. One is set to fail in the first place. 

I'd be a lot better and helpful of a person if I could heal people by touch, feed multitudes of people with a few crumbs, bring the dead back to life. 

I'm glad at least attempting to emulate Jesus has given you a more positive self image.

Personally I don't need to single out only one ultimate role model. I try to be a good person because in my life I've seen how negatively impacting people's lives is a terrible thing to do through my own actions and others. I'd rather try to lift people up. There have been thousands of real people who I've gained wisdom and morals from.

In the end I find trying to live up to a fairy tale super hero to be an effort in futility. It can only get one so far. One is bound to come up short.

I think it takes much more of a personal toll to reach for the unreachable as opposed to doing your best and having that be enough.

I'm what I consider a good, trustworthy, helpful and caring person and Jesus gets absolutely no credit for any of it.

I can see idolizing a Jesus type character, but I don't get worshipping anything.

 

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hetrodoxly

It's interesting to see the many description of a god people don't believe in, i assume the OP is religious as what would be the point of the thread if they didn't believe, it should be debated among believers and maybe agnostics, if i said 'i worship the wind' few people on here would ask which wind. 

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XenoFish
31 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

It's interesting to see the many description of a god people don't believe in, i assume the OP is religious as what would be the point of the thread if they didn't believe, it should be debated among believers and maybe agnostics, if i said 'i worship the wind' few people on here would ask which wind. 

Flatulottus, the great and powerful wind spirit of the south. Many fear its horrid breath.

Then there is Burpatons, lord of the northern wind. Fearsome is his roar.

Edited by XenoFish
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micahc

if there was a god, he could have his own tv show. end of mystery.  people who promote religion want to be worshipped.  

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hetrodoxly
9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Flatulottus, the great and powerful wind spirit of the south. Many fear its horrid breath.

Then there is Burpatons, lord of the northern wind. Fearsome is his roar.

You had to be prompted, no try again.

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XenoFish
2 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

You had to be prompted, no try again.

Yeah, this is going to be fun.:hmm:

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lightly
15 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

It's interesting to see the many description of a god people don't believe in, i assume the OP is religious as what would be the point of the thread if they didn't believe, it should be debated among believers and maybe agnostics, if i said 'i worship the wind' few people on here would ask which wind. 

  :P.   I might wonder ..Warm south wind ?  Cold north wind ?   Powerful all destructive wind !!?   A life giving breeze carrying airborne seeds and spores without which life on earth could not exist?     Wind/nature is sorta like man's ideas of god?...

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GoldenWolf
18 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I can see idolizing a Jesus type character, but I don't get worshipping anything.

If you don't worship, "God" doesn't get the feeling of being powerful.  Just like a narcissistic human.

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hetrodoxly
2 hours ago, lightly said:

  :P.   I might wonder ..Warm south wind ?  Cold north wind ?   Powerful all destructive wind !!?   A life giving breeze carrying airborne seeds and spores without which life on earth could not exist?     Wind/nature is sorta like man's ideas of god?...

We could be here all night.

 

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Coil
On 5/11/2020 at 10:23 PM, XenoFish said:

If God expects to be worshiped, perhaps it isn't a god worth worshiping. 

This worship is necessary for us to enlighten our consciousness.
Because today's humanity cannot evolve further if it does not come to a more enlightened, intuitive mind that feels God and can form a harmonious life on earth.

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XenoFish
5 hours ago, Coil said:

This worship is necessary for us to enlighten our consciousness.
Because today's humanity cannot evolve further if it does not come to a more enlightened, intuitive mind that feels God and can form a harmonious life on earth.

Think how you think, do what you do, believe what you believe. No other thought than what the divine dictator says. No thanks. 

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Mr Walker
On 5/7/2020 at 4:45 AM, BEAR-CUB said:

Hello. Today I would like to question the idea of worshiping god, hopefully it will result in a debate by people of different or no faith. My understanding of ‘god’ is that ‘god’ is a perfect being, who looks at every subject from every conceivable angle before passing judgment, it is never guilty of emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions. An entity that has provided all life-forms with tools needed to survive on the physical plane. The above are just 2 examples of a ‘perfect’ being (god). On the other hand I have asked myself “What is a imperfect being?”; after debating this with myself, I arrived at the following conclusions: a imperfect being is someone who is a narcissist, arrogant, and egotistical; yet these 3 descriptions are typical to be found in people who demand to be worshipped; therefore if god demands to be worshipped as mainstream religious leaders would have us believe, then god cannot be a perfect being, therefore cannot be god, as narcissism, arrogance, and ego are flaws, as religions preach. Therefore I believe that ‘worshiping god is a human-construct, not god’s instructions to humans. Considering all of the above points,  I have arrived at my own conclusion that ‘God doesn’t  demand or expect to be worshipped’. I was raised by a mother who is a follower of a Indian spiritual path, not a religion; according to instructions to followers, we are not expected to worship god; instead we engage in transcendental meditation for the purpose of establishing a spiritual connection with god. I have set the ball in motion, now it’s on your side of the court, therefore upto you to argue your case. 

 A god neither expects/wants nor needs to be be worshipped  (a little respect and attention is appreciated )

Indeed  even the label and meaning of "god"  is a human construct.

It is humans who have  a need (for many different  reasons) to worship a god .

Gods do have need of human beings at times, and so a relationship with a god can be symbiotic.  

A god is more of a father figure, or that of an older brother,  (or in some cultures, a mother or older sister, aunty etc) than some omnipotent, omniscient being.

Gods may SEEM omnipotent or omniscient  to a human being,  but they are not.  Just powerful and knowledgeable .

Indeed,  as you point out, the correct relationship between god and human is one of physical and mental connection, which is entirely  individual, and cannot be established by doctrine, creed or theology, but only through the connection itself.  

Edited by Mr Walker

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