Obamagate important or another diversion

[Hankenhunter]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Democraps, Repooplicans..... they're all lying turds.....

I look at this way. If you had to choose between a rhubarb pie, and a manure pie, which one would you pick? With my luck you'll love rhubarb, and extoll on the virtues of manure. 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

I look at this way. If you had to choose between a rhubarb pie, and a manure pie, which one would you pick? With my luck you'll love rhubarb, and extoll on the virtues of manure. 

Rhubarb sucks and at least I can throw the meadow muffins at the kids for my entertainment. 

This election is just 2 manure pies though and when Hillary stabbed Tulsi in the back my relationship with the Dems was severed for good. 

Trump will win and it will all burn........

 

 

[Hankenhunter]

5 minutes ago, Piney said:

Rhubarb sucks and at least I can throw the meadow muffins at the kids for my entertainment. 

This election is just 2 manure pies though and when Hillary stabbed Tulsi in the back my relationship with the Dems was severed for good. 

Trump will win and it will all burn........

 

 

Well, when you're shorts start smoldering, know that I have a huge old house here in Canada with many empty rooms that welcome you and yours. That aint wind either, brother.

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Well, when you're shorts start smoldering, know that I have a huge old house here in Canada with many empty rooms that welcome you and yours. That aint wind either, brother.

I'm not even allowed to cross into Grand River Reserve to see or stay with kin. The whole "dangerous dog list" thing. I'm on the no-fly list too. Or I'd already be back in China (who doesn't recognize my conviction) working for my cousin's security firm. . 

[ChrLzs]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The overwhelming price will be paid by those they perceive delaying it, especially for political reasons.

Well there's me, wrong again in thinking that the overwhelming price would in fact be paid by those who die, are incapacitated or are really, really sick.

 

I know, I have ludicrous priorities.

Manwon, sorry I didn't vote as frankly, your wording confuses me.  Must be having a bad day....  

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

As with all things political, it is as important as it is to the people whom it is important to. The Wuhan Panic is a two-edged sword; the response is what it is, uncomfortable and financially distressing and debilitating. A minority of people are directly impacted by the disease, while the vast majority are impacted indirectly.  The majority of people want things back to normal. The overwhelming price will be paid by those they perceive delaying it, especially for political reasons. I find your poll questions far too leading to answer.

Thanks for you opinion, sorry that the poll questions are to far leading to answer. I also agree that a overwhelming price will be paid by those who have delayed getting things returned to normal. But that statement is also a two-edged sword, because delaying a return to normal may also be viewed by the actions take or the inactions that have created the present environment that Americans are living in. For instance if flights into America from China and parts of Europe had been banned in late January this could have easily have stopped the spread of this infectious disease. Along with this and other measures that were not, but could have been taken certainly could have changed the entire way this Disease has spread across America.

So I do certainly agree that a overwhelming price will be paid whether its for political reasons or for serious inactions that have allowed this to occur

I hope this finds you and your family safe and in good health. 

Peace

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thanks for you opinion, sorry that the poll questions are to far leading to answer. I also agree that a overwhelming price will be paid by those who have delayed getting things returned to normal. But that statement is also a two-edged sword, because delaying a return to normal may also be viewed by the actions take or the inactions that have created the present environment that Americans are living in. For instance if flights into America from China and parts of Europe had been banned in late January this could have easily have stopped the spread of this infectious disease. Along with this and other measures that were not, but could have been taken certainly could have changed the entire way this Disease has spread across America.

So I do certainly agree that a overwhelming price will be paid whether its for political reasons or for serious inactions that have allowed this to occur

I hope this finds you and your family safe and in good health. 

Peace

Hindsight's twenty-twenty and he banned such flights before China or Europe did. By late January, it was all over the States. Hundreds of thousands of people--not even counting the one's who from China to elsewhere, then to the States, had dispersed all over the country.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and then said:

Agreed.  The evidence should be made available.  Most Americans can walk and chew bubblegum simultaneously and they can decide what information is valid and what isn't.  I predict something on the order of a collective primal scream from the 5th column in the coming days and weeks. 

That's easier said than done, with the media as politically biased as it is. Far to many Americans don't know what to believe, or they just follow what they are told by the media source that they either watch or listen to. They don't do any research, to try and identify what true and what isn't, so while they can walk and chew bubble gum, again far are way to complacent to do what it takes to find the truth.

Peace

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Well there's me, wrong again in thinking that the overwhelming price would in fact be paid by those who die, are incapacitated or are really, really sick.

 

I know, I have ludicrous priorities.

Manwon, sorry I didn't vote as frankly, your wording confuses me.  Must be having a bad day....  

Cute. I was talking political price and you know it.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Hindsight's twenty-twenty and he banned such flights before China or Europe did. By late January, it was all over the States. Hundreds of thousands of people--not even counting the one's who from China to elsewhere, then to the States, had dispersed all over the country.

Like you said you hindsight is twenty-twenty, and he was aware do to Intelligence briefing he received form his medical advisers and from the Joint Chiefs of Staff starting in early January how serious the problem was and when did he ban the first incoming flights?

What actions were taken to prevent the spread of this infection, when was Social Distancing recommended?

Peace

[Grim Reaper 6]

15 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Well there's me, wrong again in thinking that the overwhelming price would in fact be paid by those who die, are incapacitated or are really, really sick.

 

I know, I have ludicrous priorities.

Manwon, sorry I didn't vote as frankly, your wording confuses me.  Must be having a bad day....  

No I must apologize your certainly not the first person to say that, so its obvious I could have done a better jobs wording.

Peace

[ChrLzs]

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Cute. I was talking political price and you know it.  

At least I wasn't posting false claims............  Anyway, consider it an offtopic, alternative view.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Like you said you hindsight is twenty-twenty, and he was aware do to Intelligence briefing he received form his medical advisers and from the Joint Chiefs of Staff starting in early January how serious the problem was and when did he ban the first incoming flights?

What actions were taken to prevent the spread of this infection, when was Social Distancing recommended?

Peace

Before Europe and China did. 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, ChrLzs said:

At least I wasn't posting false claims............  Anyway, consider it an offtopic, alternative view.

I'll just consider you full of crap, instead.

[ChrLzs]

5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Like you said you hindsight is twenty-twenty, and he was aware do to Intelligence briefing he received form his medical advisers and from the Joint Chiefs of Staff starting in early January how serious the problem was and when did he ban the first incoming flights?

Indeed.

“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”

The virus was already well and truly in the USA, so this was too little FAR too late, and wasn't even particularly useful.  Instead of tracing the likeliest Covid carriers and introducing a genuine testing regime, he treated the heart attack with a band-aid.

[ChrLzs]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I'll just consider you full of crap, instead.

Well, you certainly answered my criticism comprehensively.... 

Why so upset?  Don't like being called out as suckered by what trumpeters have told you about the WHO?  Next time, check your information to avoid embarrassment.

[+Hammerclaw]

17 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Well, you certainly answered my criticism comprehensively.... 

Why so upset?  Don't like being called out as suckered by what trumpeters have told you about the WHO?  Next time, check your information to avoid embarrassment.

I have checked my information and it confirms you are full of it. You're the one that needs to do some checking, but arrogance, ignorance and stupidity are a very efficient package and suits y

Edited May 14, 2020 by Hammerclaw

[ChrLzs]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I have checked my information and it confirms you are full of it. You're the one that needs to do some checking, but arrogance, ignorance and stupidity are a very efficient package and suits you well.

Here's what Hammerclaw said:

Quote

Over 400,000 people traveled from China to the US while China and the WHO were saying it was not transmissible, human-to-human.

Agreed, Hammerclaw?  Is there some context that I missed?

And here's where you can find a list of all the 'Situation Reports' issued by the WHO, since January, 2020.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports
These documents and their dates can be verified eslewhere.  And here's my cheekily chosen extract from a WHO sitrep of 21 January, 2020, that clearly shows, just by looking at what China, of all places, had done and was doing....

Quote

China:
• National authorities are conducting active case finding in all provinces;
• Since 14 January 2020, 35 infrared thermometers have been installed in airports, railway
stations, long-distance bus stations, and ferry terminals;
• Search expanded for additional cases within and outside of Wuhan City;
• Active / retroactive case finding in medical institutions in Wuhan City;
• The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan city was closed on 1 January 2020 for
environmental sanitation and disinfection. Market inspection in expansion to other markets;
• Public education on disease prevention and environmental hygiene further strengthened in public places across the city, farmers’ markets in particular.

So they did NOT say it was not transmissible - that was a LIE.  And despite all of that, trump decided not to act beyond his idiotic ban (directed at China alone) until over a full month later, during which time the virus was spreading across the US....  How many people have died because of that decision?  That decision from the person who said it was totally under control...

IMO, worse than terrorism.

[+Hammerclaw]

34 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Here's what Hammerclaw said:

Agreed, Hammerclaw?  Is there some context that I missed?

And here's where you can find a list of all the 'Situation Reports' issued by the WHO, since January, 2020.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports
These documents and their dates can be verified eslewhere.  And here's my cheekily chosen extract from a WHO sitrep of 21 January, 2020, that clearly shows, just by looking at what China, of all places, had done and was doing....

So they did NOT say it was not transmissible - that was a LIE.  And despite all of that, trump decided not to act beyond his idiotic ban (directed at China alone) until over a full month later, during which time the virus was spreading across the US....  How many people have died because of that decision?  That decision from the person who said it was totally under control...

IMO, worse than terrorism.

bull****. It was already here. It didn't just pop up in late December in Wuhan. In early January, you intercepted a Chinese passenger carrying the virus when you first started screening. God only knows how far it had spread in China alone by then. No matter how wide and persistent it's vector for infection, it's spread doesn't fit at all comfortably within such a narrow timeline. Because of Chinese disinformation, our government was over complacent, thinking it had time to prevent what had already occurred. By their own records, the WHO couldn't even come to a consensus in late February and only declared a pandemic in mid March. For everyone of who is severely impacted by the disease, there's probably a hundred more who just shrugged it off. IMO you're infected with TDS.

[Horta]

5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

It is interesting that Obamagate is coming out now, I am aware that new information has come to light. But should this issue  take time away from more important issues concerning the Pandemic. Over the last month the current administration has used many tactics to make Americans look in other directs when topics concerning the Administrations actions during this Pandemic became an issue. These actions are coming from Both the Democratic and Republican Parties, along with the President and the Secretary of Sate. To me since there is no statue of limitations on the current issue concerning General Flynn's case it may be better if the President just pardons him so we can get back to more important issues at hand ( Pandemic ) . They can always bring Obamagate back to life in the future when other issues are not luming over our heads. Please add your thoughts on this subject. I understand that an election is coming in November, but what's more important getting the economy running again and saving peoples lives or taking up time with Political issues to attempt to deflect responsibility away for their actions during the Pandemic. I think no matter what they all try to do, their actions during the Pandemic will have a greater effect on how people vote in November.

You decide and give your thoughts on what is more important.

Peace

This is relevant to all politics everywhere and aimed at no one in particular.

There should be very strict psych evaluation before anyone can run for any public office. In particular for tendencies towards ASPD (Anti Social Personality Disorders) and more specifically the set of tendencies towards what is otherwise known as sociopathy. This would thin the ranks considerably and there is likely to be far less problems. It's a shame such things couldn't happen in the corporate world. In the genuine sense, not in the (incorrect) stereotypical/colloquial sense where people just use the term to disparage those they don't get on with.

A couple of possible problems though, is that it could be seen as discrimination and genuine sociopathy isn't uncommon in those that rise to the top in certain professions ("corporate psychopathy" is a well known term amongst sociologist/ relevant psychologists), it can also be a desirable trait in leaders in certain circumstances, some of the strongest and most gifted/glorified leaders in history were textbook APSD. Caesar for instance...

Edited May 14, 2020 by Horta

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Isn't the press and media the 4th Column? Or the 4th Estate?

Whats the 5th?

Historically that definition is correct.  I'm 59 and I can remember when media TV consisted of 3 major networks and when if one of the anchors wanted to share his opinions about the news of the day, he sat at a special desk with the word COMMENTARY in front of him.  The corporate media of today is owned almost exclusively by Progressive elements in this nation. 

Beginning in 2016, those corporate employees gave up any semblance of fairness or objectivity.  Anyone who cannot or will not admit this is someone I can't much be bothered with trying to have reasonable discussions with.  It's as though the MSM has turned into propaganda outlets that, for the sake of taking Trump down, have squandered any credibility they once had.  They pursued a narrative  where they daily made accusations that Trump wasn't just an idiot, he was  TRAITOR.  Today, they are continuing that assault to attempt to delegitimize An AG (Barr) who has served other presidents honorably and has no blemish on his record.  The same with Durham and Jensen.  Both are Federal Prosecutors with distinguished service to our nation.  The media has to destroy them now because the proof IS coming out and some people who were in Obama's close circle are going to be named in behaviors that could get them indicted.

Now we are beginning to get some information directly from records/emails/calls that not only cast doubt on that story, it actually proves that the FBI worked to take down a man whose service was spotless and his major sin?  He dared cross Obama's vision of the world.   IMO, there are only 3 basic kinds of Americans any longer.  Those who want this nation to continue to be guided strictly by our Constitutional restrictions on centralized government, those who want a "Progressive" path forward and those who are so angry, bitter, drugged or boozed that the only thing they care about is the check in the mail.

Every indication I've seen over the last 2 weeks is that AG Barr has given Federal Prosecutors, Durham and an unknown named Jensen, the task of investigating not only the Mueller investigation predicate but also the actions taken against Trump during his transition and after.  If you want solid proof that our MSM today is sold out to the Left and is doing the bidding of the entrenched types in DC, watch the hysteria build in the coming weeks.  Pay close attention to how they tell their story.  Be willing to dig into sources you don't normally bother with to see how much of what is coming to light is actually FACTUAL parts of the record.  NOT accusations with anonymous sources.  Not punks like Schiff assuring everyone for years that he has PROOF that he still hasn't shared 3+ years later.

I don't expect the 40% that vote Democrat reflexively to ever admit even the possibility they might have been wrong.  The Left will say the same of the 40% who vote Republican.  The path forward for our nation - IF there is one - will be decided by 10% or so of people who are willing to challenge themselves to listen to all the evidence, not the hysteria that will be spewed 24/7 about Barr or Durham or Jensen being corrupt somehow.  Evidence, not emotion.  We already have clear indications that not only was the assault against Trump manufactured, it was coordinated from the highest  levels in government.  Even Saint Obama shocked his own Deputy AG,  Sally Yates, when he made it clear in a meeting that he knew more about this situation than SHE did.

[Grim Reaper 6]

14 minutes ago, Horta said:

This is relevant to all politics everywhere and aimed at no one in particular.

There should be very strict psych evaluation before anyone can run for any public office. In particular for tendencies towards ASPD (Anti Social Personality Disorders) and more specifically the set of tendencies towards what is otherwise known as sociopathy. This would thin the ranks considerably and there is likely to be far less problems. It's a shame such things couldn't happen in the corporate world. In the genuine sense, not in the (incorrect) stereotypical/colloquial sense where people just use the term to disparage those they don't get on with. A couple of possible problems though, is that it could be seen as discrimination and genuine sociopathy isn't uncommon in those that rise to the top in certain areas of society, it can be a necessary trait in leaders in certain circumstances, some of the strongest and most gifted/glorified leaders in history were textbook APSD. Caesar for instance...

I agree with you thoughts on the subject, but in this day and age we not know that Sociopathy and ASPDS are a mental illnesses. We also know that they can be very dangerous traits, and when combined with megalomania it cause irrational decisions that in todays age could result in the loss tens of millions of lives. So I don't think that any of those traits are assets for a World Leader, just in my opinion.

Peace

[ChrLzs]

44 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

bull****. It was already here. It didn't just pop up in late December in Wuhan. In early January, you intercepted a Chinese passenger carrying the virus when you first started screening. God only knows how far it had spread in China alone by then. No matter how wide and persistent it's vector for infection, it's spread doesn't fit at all comfortably within such a narrow timeline.

WTH?  So you just changed sides?  Did you or did you not say, earlier:

Quote

"Over 400,000 people traveled from China to the US while China and the WHO were saying it was not transmissible, human-to-human."

Yes, the Chinese were being somewhat cagey about it, and the WHO were slow to catch on (and had to initially work from the Chinese reports), but they began warning about the high likelihood of human transmission as early as mid January, making it very offficial by mid thru late January, as I posted.  And of course plenty of other health professionals were warning of the possibilities.

Quote

Because of Chinese disinformation, our government was over complacent

No, they were completely incompetent.  And funnily enough, earlier you claimed "we feel we've done quite well".  Yeah, congrats on over 80,000 dead.

Quote

...thinking it had time to prevent what had already occurred. By their own records, the WHO couldn't even come to a consensus in late February and only declared a pandemic in mid March.

And in the meantime, your administration, with all that access to the CDC etc, just sat back and blamed everyone else

Quote

For everyone of who is severely impacted by the disease, there's probably a hundred more who just shrugged it off. IMO you're infected with TDS.

That's pretty low, even for you....

But YES, you're totally right, the virus was already spreading by late Jan, which is why most countries with a clue were taking action.

And yes, the US has a unique set of characteristics that mean it, MORE THAN MOST, should have acted early, and not only introduced that dumbass travel ban on some Chinese flights, but also started testing and checking all incomings, as well as large scale testing of the populace, AND contact tracing on those who had already come in.

But nah that was all too hard for trump and his merry band of scum, who just twiddled their thumbs and sat on their hands.  Right through February..... 

Do you honestly not see why "we feel we've done quite well" just isn't quite cutting it?  I'm staggered.

Edited May 14, 2020 by ChrLzs

[Grim Reaper 6]

41 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

bull****. It was already here. It didn't just pop up in late December in Wuhan. In early January, you intercepted a Chinese passenger carrying the virus when you first started screening. God only knows how far it had spread in China alone by then. No matter how wide and persistent it's vector for infection, it's spread doesn't fit at all comfortably within such a narrow timeline. Because of Chinese disinformation, our government was over complacent, thinking it had time to prevent what had already occurred. By their own records, the WHO couldn't even come to a consensus in late February and only declared a pandemic in mid March. For everyone of who is severely impacted by the disease, there's probably a hundred more who just shrugged it off. IMO you're infected with TDS.

No the Virus didn't just pop up in Wuhan in December 2019, the case was reported on 17 November 2019 and the medical community isn't certain that this individual was Patient Zero: Here is an excerpt from the link I am providing:  A 55-year-old individual from Hubei province in China may have been the first person to have contracted COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus spreading across the globe. That case dates back to Nov. 17, 2019, according to the South Morning China Post.

Link - https://www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html

So you are saying it was already spreading in America early January 2020, if so please provide a link to information that proves it.  ( Also you say you intercepted a Chinese passenger carrying the Virus when you first started screening ) My question is who is you, and who intercepted a Chinese passenger that was infected and what was the date when this individual was intercepted? Please provide a link showing that information also.

Peace

[Horta]

11 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

And yes, the US has a unique set of characteristics that mean it, MORE THAN MOST, should have acted early, and not only introduced that dumbass travel ban on some Chinese flights, but also started testing and checking all incomings, as well as large scale testing of the populace, AND contact tracing on those who had already come in.

It's difficult to do that when politicians don't listen to scientists, and when you haven't got the necessary supplies. The fact that the US felt it needed to (ahem) "acquire/intercept" emergency shipments of medical equipment that were en route to Germany and Canada, seems to indicate preparedness wasn't great.

There is all talk of this being a "black swan" event that no one could have predicted. That's absolute nonsense of course, scientists have been telling the world to prepare for the certainty of a pandemic such as this for decades.