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Obamagate important or another diversion


Grim Reaper 6

Whats more important  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. What will influence the election most

    • Parties actions / inactions from the beginning of the Pandemic up until the Election
      8
    • Parties political diversions that are designed to hide their action / inactions up until the Election
      10


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21 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I believe you when you say that you've always said hold him responsible. However, there are many other forum members and other Americans who will defend his every ACTION no matter what. Now if you don't believe me I can show you who they are, but I doubt that is necessary because you also know what I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Peace

I recognize there are Trump Zealots, but my opinion is that, like with the Far Left, Communists. and Antifa, they are simply a loud minority of the supporters. 

I think, that too often, and I am guilty of this sometimes too, we paint our opposition with too broad a brush, when really it is uncalled for.

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16 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I know what you're talking about. The great tribalism that is American politics. Works both ways too, Democrats, Republicans all act the same way. But it must be acknowledged that the Trumpeters have taken blind obedience to a new level.

Di0wyioVsAAlUe3.jpg

It almost appears you're making a statement and posting that it's a lie. :lol:

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4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

It almost appears you're making a statement and posting that it's a lie. :lol:

Spoken like a true Trumpeter.  

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Just now, Captain Risky said:

Spoken like a true Trumpeter.  

You are welcome. :lol:

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2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I recognize there are Trump Zealots, but my opinion is that, like with the Far Left, Communists. and Antifa, they are simply a loud minority of the supporters. 

I think, that too often, and I am guilty of this sometimes too, we paint our opposition with too broad a brush, when really it is uncalled for.

For me it doesn't matter how I am painted by anyone, because when it comes to that I couldn't careless, I am very comfortable in my skin.:yes:  I totally agree that this problem is coming from both sides of the fence, and that they all have dirty hands. The thing I really don't like most of all is when people in a conversation refer to me as being a Globalist, or from the Left. This is because in my entire life I have never voted except for the Republican Ticket, and the first time in my life that I didn't vote was during the last election. This is because I do not believe in voting for any candidate just because they are the slightly better of two equally sad individuals.

The reason I don't like Trump is because I have been aware of his questionable actions for more than 30 years, and also for the fact that he has only reinforced my  beliefs since he has been President. While I don't hate him or anyone else for that matter, hypothetically if I was near him and he caught fire, I would not pee on him to put the flames, this is because my belief in Carma will not allow me to do so.:yes: But at the same time I would not wish that upon him and I wish him along with no else any ill will, because it not my place to do so. However, I do have the right to speak out against his actions do to his lack of control and also do to the way he treats others.

I personally believe that his actions have put my country in extreme peril, do his inactions concerning this Pandemic and his continued actions that put my fellow Americans in danger. He was briefed in early January that a Novel Virus was starting to spread across China. He also knew that this was going to become a very serious situation and instead of starting preparations to protect AMERICA he chose the Economy and the Stock Market over the American people. Which didn't change a dam thing, it only prolonged it and allowed this virus to invade and spread across our Nation which subsequently has killed more than 90,000 Americans. 

The shortage of masks and some other PPE in the national stock pile was also a known fact when he took office. So what was done  "Nothing but finger pointing at Obama":td: to plus up our shortages, not a dam thing. Hell we even had a M90 mask and PPE manufacturer located in Texas,  " by the way the last one still operating in the USA" who was never contacted even though he started making overtures to the Trump Administration early in the month of January. This manufacturer had the ability to manufacture up to 8000 M90 masks along with other needed PPE per month.

This was during the most critical time of this Pandemic when medical personnel were reusing unsanitary equipment to do their jobs. Some of these people became sick and died due to these poor working conditions, when the above mentioned Mask and PPE manufacturer was sitting idle waiting to be contacted. Well, I am done with the past, because day after day he continues to create problems for the Medical field and the Nation as a whole. They really need to muzzel  the guy, by allowing him to speak he only causes more problems. Anyway, I suspect you will disagree with much of what I have said here, and that's ok.

I can respect your opinion on this subject, but there is one thing that sets me apart from many of the babblers on these subjects. I have researched this, I can back up everything I have said with articles or links to information which others on both sides of the political spectrum can not do, and never even attempt to do, I mean no one wants egg on their face, but everyone thinks their opinion is more valuable than information on these subjects.:(

Sorry for the long rant, if you don't wish to reply I understand.

Peace

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2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I know what you're talking about. The great tribalism that is American politics. Works both ways too, Democrats, Republicans all act the same way. But it must be acknowledged that the Trumpeters have taken blind obedience to a new level.

Di0wyioVsAAlUe3.jpg

:rolleyes::sleepy:

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Is anyone really still falling for the false narrative, constantly contradicted by common sense?! Obummer was behind the 3 year russian collusion hoax, all while the Dems try to throw out the first and second amendments, keep the border open, then blame trump for not closing it anymore. Remember those supplies they found in the warehouses in Puerto Rico, they refused to hand out? They let their people starve to death to make the scary orange man look bad, but who're the real monsters? The ones who can manipulate 90 percent of the media. The Libs hate the facts though, which is why they rely on knee-jerk emotional reaction. What is reality? They tried to impeach trump for investigating Biden and Hunter's obvious corruption in Ukraine, but oh you can't investigate him he's running for president! WTF, oh and Biden openly molests children on national tv as the sheep cheer him on; but he would never assault anyone, and he's definitely not connected to Epstein in any way! Even though he was there, even though Epstein had a painting of Clinton in drag. Don't look here folks, nothing to see! If you really buy what the media is telling you, I envy your ability to ignore reality.  

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39 minutes ago, Redacted File said:

Is anyone really still falling for the false narrative, constantly contradicted by common sense?! Obummer was behind the 3 year russian collusion hoax, all while the Dems try to throw out the first and second amendments, keep the border open, then blame trump for not closing it anymore. Remember those supplies they found in the warehouses in Puerto Rico, they refused to hand out? They let their people starve to death to make the scary orange man look bad, but who're the real monsters? The ones who can manipulate 90 percent of the media. The Libs hate the facts though, which is why they rely on knee-jerk emotional reaction. What is reality? They tried to impeach trump for investigating Biden and Hunter's obvious corruption in Ukraine, but oh you can't investigate him he's running for president! WTF, oh and Biden openly molests children on national tv as the sheep cheer him on; but he would never assault anyone, and he's definitely not connected to Epstein in any way! Even though he was there, even though Epstein had a painting of Clinton in drag. Don't look here folks, nothing to see! If you really buy what the media is telling you, I envy your ability to ignore reality.  

I also envy yours, so please carry on we can always use another Parrot, does Polly want a Cracker?:devil:

Oh and by the way welcome to the forum.;)

Peace 

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5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I believe you when you say that you've always said hold him responsible. However, there are many other forum members and other Americans who will defend his every ACTION no matter what. Now if you don't believe me I can show you who they are, but I doubt that is necessary because you also know what I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Peace

Its odd to me,

Years back before we married, tina and i went to visit my dad, my step mother is a stern woman, when it was time for bed, ( i planned to give tina the guess room and i would crash on the sofa) stepmom jumps up and reads us a riot act about how the rules she applies to her kids under her roof apply to us and until legally married we will not share a bed, it embarassed my dad, i was in my 40s

Tina chimed in would you rather us get a hotel, but before it got ugly dad and i smoothed it over, by the next visit we were married, thankfully we had the marriage license to show her, which she demanded.

Dad passed in 2014 about 2018 i was taking to her, she worshipped trump, i asked yeah but how do you feel about all the women who said he sexually harassed them, the grab em by the xxxx remark, and 2 affairs with sex trade workers he tried to pay off to cover up,

She snapped right to her rejoinder, she said she had doubts any of it was true, but if it was well that had no bearing on what a great potus he is,

My point, if trump asked many of his worshippers to drink the bitter purple kool aid they would without question. Its weird to me that the very people who try to act so strong, independent, etc are the ones who become the biggest brain dead lemmings for don. I just dont get it. Just watch.

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10 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Just FYI, heres what Firbes just published on California.

Yeah, I thought I edited that to Conn.  for Connecticut.  Cali is not one of the donor states and neither is Oregon.

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20 hours ago, joc said:

Not interested.  I already know Obama's playbook.  Divide and conquer.  Not interested.

Well, there you have it.  I guess the lack of interest explains that you missed that Obama is no longer in power...  You want to mention distractions but not look at them - it's a really bad look, Joc - somewhat like the chimp throwing poo...  But as shown above, it's typical of Trump ostriches.

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On 5/19/2020 at 7:39 AM, Manwon Lender said:

because we know that would be suicide.

You believe that every nation or actor today is so rational that they can be counted on not to "commit suicide"?  Exhibit one would be fundamentalist Islam.  There are plenty of folks in government and out of it now who recognize the very real threat an EMP or a CME could pose to our nation.  The fact that no administration of either party is willing to spend the money to harden our non-military grid says a lot about their priorities, IMO.  If you think these issues aren't important then we'll just agree to disagree.

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6 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Well, there you have it.  I guess the lack of interest explains that you missed that Obama is no longer in power...  You want to mention distractions but not look at them - it's a really bad look, Joc - somewhat like the chimp throwing poo...  But as shown above, it's typical of Trump ostriches.

Hey, it isn't Trump's problem that Obama did not legislate a Pandemic Plan!  I guess he was too busy shoving The Affordable Care Act down the throats of the American people and  lying his ass off about it  while he did it.

Old saying:

Success requires no explanation.  Failure permits no alibis. 

Trump is a winner.  Obama is a loser. Deal with it.  But he will never be prosecuted.

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3 minutes ago, joc said:

Hey, it isn't Trump's problem that Obama did not legislate a Pandemic Plan!

A; Obama isn't the issue here.  Even if there was a problem, how long has Trump had to fix it?

B: Your premise is 100% wrong - did you not read the thread or actually check before you type?

Even Mitch McConnell admits it when he screws the pooch that badly.
And do you seriously not know the difference between Legislation and a Plan????

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16 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

A; Obama isn't the issue here.  Even if there was a problem, how long has Trump had to fix it?

B: Your premise is 100% wrong - did you not read the thread or actually check before you type?

Even Mitch McConnell admits it when he screws the pooch that badly.
And do you seriously not know the difference between Legislation and a Plan????

A plan is a plan...if you want it to happen...make legislation happen!  

Obamagate...first word in the thread...that makes Obama the issue.

The truth:

Neither Obama nor Trump saw Covid 19 coming.  Nobody else did either.  It took us all by surprise.  So get off your high horse and stay back 6 feet. :)

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7 minutes ago, joc said:

A plan is a plan...if you want it to happen...make legislation happen!

So, no, you don't understand the difference between legislation and a plan.  And if you claim that it needed to be legislated, then AGAIN, why didn't Trump do that?  Oh, right, because Mitch couldn't find it on his desk...

7 minutes ago, joc said:

Obamagate...first word in the thread...that makes Obama the issue.

NOT in the subtopic you raised, and you lied about no plan.... this was already covered, so there is no real excuse for that.

7 minutes ago, joc said:

The truth:

Neither Obama nor Trump saw Covid 19 coming.  Nobody else did either.  It took us all by surprise.  So get off your high horse and stay back 6 feet. :)

No, I'll be staying on my high horse.  Lots of countries were in the same boat, and here you guys are, top of the list... in the wrong way...

In late January it hit the media here in Oz, in February we were talking about physical distancing and most folks started practising it (without legislation - amazing huh?), and with a couple of minor exceptions, we've introduced restrictions as and when they were sensibly required.  Our politicians have this strange, innate knowledge of how this country works, so the steps were introduced reasonably sensibly.  Hence we have 100 or so deaths compared to your 95,000.. and our curves are all genuinely dropping to the point where re-opening the economy is being done on scientific advice.

Let me repeat that - we have about 100 deaths.  You have 94,000.  That's 940 times more, yet your population is only 13 times more than ours.

 

Hiho Silver, and awaayy!

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7 hours ago, and then said:

You believe that every nation or actor today is so rational that they can be counted on not to "commit suicide"?  Exhibit one would be fundamentalist Islam.  There are plenty of folks in government and out of it now who recognize the very real threat an EMP or a CME could pose to our nation.  The fact that no administration of either party is willing to spend the money to harden our non-military grid says a lot about their priorities, IMO.  If you think these issues aren't important then we'll just agree to disagree.

That is fine Duncun, I thought we were already doing that on this topic, did I miss something?:unsure: 

Let me ask you this, where do you see the threat coming from?:unsure2:

Peace

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6 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Let me repeat that - we have about 100 deaths.  You have 94,000.  That's 940 times more, yet your population is only 13 times more than ours.

 

Still comparing Apples to Oranges? Why?  Actually, it's more like you are comparing apples to prickly pear cactus.  You apparently forgot to include in your comparisons that

Australia has only had 7000 or so confirmed cases.    

You also forgot to mention that China is our largest trade partner and that we have a  H U G E  number of Chinese citizens and Chinese visitors...which means Chris that, we had considerably more exposure to the virus than Australia.  

If you wish to be real...then use real numbers...  A L L ...of the real numbers and not just cherry pick things to fit your narrative.

 

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9 hours ago, joc said:

Still comparing Apples to Oranges? Why?

I compared exactly the same things.  Deaths due to Covid, and population.  Were there any errors you'd like to point out?

Yes, there are demographics to consider, and I'll comment on your lame attempt to do that in sec..  And just remember, your death rate is 940 x higher than ours.  You think demographics explain it?  I think it was mostly incompetence by your administration, and I have explained precisely why and even given you a timeline, that i note you have NOT disputed...

So far you are batting zero.

9 hours ago, joc said:

Actually, it's more like you are comparing apples to prickly pear cactus.  You apparently forgot to include in your comparisons that

Australia has only had 7000 or so confirmed cases.

Yes, we stopped it getting in and spreading EARLY.  You can look at the graphs to see that happened.  FAIL.

9 hours ago, joc said:

You also forgot to mention that China is our largest trade partner and that we have a  H U G E  number of Chinese citizens and Chinese visitors... which means Chris that, we had considerably more exposure to the virus than Australia.

OK, let's look at the figures - Australia has a bit over 1 million Chinese residents.  That's about 4 percent of the population.

The US has a bit over 4 million Chinese residents.  That's about 1.5 percent of the population..

FAIL.

If we look at Chinese tourism, Australia has about 1.4 million Chinese tourists per year.  Again, per capita, that's about 5 percent of our population.

The US has about 3.5 million tourists per year.  Per capita, again, about 1.4 percent per capita.

FAIL.

Yes, you have more of both in sheer numbers (naturally), but remember, you're trying to explain 940 times more deaths.  Your own figures are showing that in fact on a per capita basis, we have significantly more interaction with China.  THINK, joc, they're our northern neighbours (and they also lust over our country so are buying lots of real estate here, investing in our companies, etc.. 

 

9 hours ago, joc said:

 If you wish to be real...then use real numbers...  A L L ...of the real numbers and not just cherry pick things to fit your narrative.

So, Joc, do tell me, which numbers aren't real?  Which demographics explain that 940 times imbalance?  Which numbers have I quoted above are false / misleading, and why?  C'mon, step up to the plate - be specific and answer the questions, with 'REAL' numbers.:

Why is your death rate 940x more than ours, when your population is only 13x more, and you have actually have significantly LESS interaction with China on a per capita basis, than we do?

 

If we shouldn't compare on a per capita basis, how should we compare it?  You yourself are using per capita comparisons....  

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Could you possibly blow yourself any harder? We get it. Australians are the most sensible people to ever walk the earth. You avoid danger like nobody's business. You obey your politicians like no one else. The kings and queens that once ruled you couldn't have imagined moulding better subjects. You ban fireworks, guns, immigrants and viruses like nothing the world has ever seen. Your country embodies common sense and has the foresight of a thousand prophets and you have an ability to gloat that makes Trump look humble on his best of days. Good lord...

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36 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Could you possibly blow yourself any harder?

I'm not straining at all.. :) 

36 minutes ago, F3SS said:

We get it.

About time....

36 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Australians are the most sensible people to ever walk the earth.

Pretty much.  As a whole, politicians included, we are united in using common sense and science.  Seems to have worked...

36 minutes ago, F3SS said:

You avoid danger like nobody's business. You obey your politicians like no one else. The kings and queens that once ruled you couldn't have imagined moulding better subjects. You ban fireworks, guns, immigrants and viruses like nothing the world has ever seen. Your country embodies common sense and has the foresight of a thousand prophets and you have an ability to gloat that makes Trump look humble on his best of days. Good lord...

Yeah, that's pretty much right, except most of us don't pretend to be religious.... but hey, I'll forgive the Neil Diamond-esque appeal to your chosen deity.  And as a somewhat vulnerable person as far as Covid is concerned and with my antipathy towards guns... I'm delighted, nay, ecstatic, to live in a country that takes the approach it does, and is not as divided and angry as the US currently appears to be.

You can call it gloating, I call it being straight with the facts - something your admin can't and won't do.

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4 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I think it was mostly incompetence by your administration, and I have explained precisely why

Yes you have....you suffer from TDS...Trump Derangement Syndrome as do most on the left...It's worse on the psyche than Covid-19.

4 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Yes, we stopped it getting in and spreading EARLY.  You can look at the graphs to see that happened.  FAIL.

Here are the major cities in Australia:  Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, Cairns, Darwin, and Canberra

Here are the major cities in Texas:  Houston. San Antonio. Dallas. Austin. Fort Worth. El Paso. Arlington. Corpus Christi.

Population of Australia:  25 million

Population of Texas:  29 million

Covid cases Australia: 7079

Covid cases Texas: 52,268

Covid Deaths Australia: 100

Australia CFR 1.41%

Texas CFR  2.75%

Covid Deaths Texas: 1440

Australia has had significantly less cases and deaths than Texas.

Texas is the comparison you should be making with your Country...not the USA in general...It's like comparing a grass snake to a mammoth boa constrictor.  FAIL.

4 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

OK, let's look at the figures - Australia has a bit over 1 million Chinese residents.  That's about 4 percent of the population.

The US has a bit over 4 million Chinese residents.  That's about 1.5 percent of the population..

FAIL.

 

China's Top Trading Partners
United States: US$418.6 billion (16.8% of China's total exports)
Hong Kong: $279.6 billion (11.2%)
Japan: $143.2 billion (5.7%)
South Korea: $111 billion (4.4%)
Vietnam: $98 billion (3.9%)
Germany: $79.7 billion (3.2%)
India: $74.9 billion (3%)
Netherlands: $73.9 billion (3%)Netherlands: $73.9 billion (3%)
 
Funny...I don't see Australia anywhere on that list....hmmmmm....FAIL
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19 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

You can call it gloating, I call it being straight with the facts - something your admin can't and won't do.

Come on Chris...it's more like you have an agenda which is to defend the Media Narrative.  You are NOT being straight with the facts...you twist them to assume your narrative.  Clever?  mmmm...not so much. You can do better.

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I'm delighted to let the audience decide...  I really liked how you didn't actually address the figures I posted, and just LOVED the diversion about China trading figures, though.... that really makes a huge difference to Covid spread......

 

Yes, you've completely covered it now, and that explains why the death rate in the USA is 940 times larger than it is here.  It's all totally clear to me now.

:D

 

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