Obamagate important or another diversion

[ChrLzs]

BTW, I know you have some comprehension difficulties, but it gets a bit tedious to have remind you that the big Capital L in my username is to hint that it is ChrLzs.  ie Charles.

Thanks in advance.

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, F3SS said:

We get it. Australians are the most sensible people to ever walk the earth. You avoid danger like nobody's business.

Half of the US is like that too.

[Tatetopa]

Oh yeah, and Obamagate is still a diversion. 

ODS can be a crippling problem.

[+joc]

7 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I'm delighted to let the audience decide...  I really liked how you didn't actually address the figures I posted, and just LOVED the diversion about China trading figures, though.... that really makes a huge difference to Covid spread......

 

Yes, you've completely covered it now, and that explains why the death rate in the USA is 940 times larger than it is here.  It's all totally clear to me now.

 

In reality Chuck...it's all about the exposure from China to Europe to the United States.  I appreciate your demographic responses but let me show you in a simple, understandable form how the United States of America differs ever so slightly from Australia:

Link Here is a map of the world...note the placement of The United States, Europe, China and Australia on the map.

Here is Air Traffic data of the World....note the number of planes going from China to Europe and from Europe to the US.  Note how few in comparison are the flights from China and Europe to Australia.

 

[+OverSword]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:46 AM, joc said:

Still comparing Apples to Oranges? Why?  Actually, it's more like you are comparing apples to prickly pear cactus.  You apparently forgot to include in your comparisons that

Australia has only had 7000 or so confirmed cases.    

You also forgot to mention that China is our largest trade partner and that we have a  H U G E  number of Chinese citizens and Chinese visitors...which means Chris that, we had considerably more exposure to the virus than Australia.  

If you wish to be real...then use real numbers...  A L L ...of the real numbers and not just cherry pick things to fit your narrative.

 

 

17 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I compared exactly the same things.  Deaths due to Covid, and population.  Were there any errors you'd like to point out?

Yes, there are demographics to consider, and I'll comment on your lame attempt to do that in sec..  And just remember, your death rate is 940 x higher than ours.  You think demographics explain it?  I think it was mostly incompetence by your administration, and I have explained precisely why and even given you a timeline, that i note you have NOT disputed...

So far you are batting zero.

Yes, we stopped it getting in and spreading EARLY.  You can look at the graphs to see that happened.  FAIL.

OK, let's look at the figures - Australia has a bit over 1 million Chinese residents.  That's about 4 percent of the population.

The US has a bit over 4 million Chinese residents.  That's about 1.5 percent of the population..

FAIL.

If we look at Chinese tourism, Australia has about 1.4 million Chinese tourists per year.  Again, per capita, that's about 5 percent of our population.

The US has about 3.5 million tourists per year.  Per capita, again, about 1.4 percent per capita.

FAIL.

Yes, you have more of both in sheer numbers (naturally), but remember, you're trying to explain 940 times more deaths.  Your own figures are showing that in fact on a per capita basis, we have significantly more interaction with China.  THINK, joc, they're our northern neighbours (and they also lust over our country so are buying lots of real estate here, investing in our companies, etc.. 

 

So, Joc, do tell me, which numbers aren't real?  Which demographics explain that 940 times imbalance?  Which numbers have I quoted above are false / misleading, and why?  C'mon, step up to the plate - be specific and answer the questions, with 'REAL' numbers.:

Why is your death rate 940x more than ours, when your population is only 13x more, and you have actually have significantly LESS interaction with China on a per capita basis, than we do?

 

If we shouldn't compare on a per capita basis, how should we compare it?  You yourself are using per capita comparisons....  

Not sure what you two are arguing about.  There is just no fair comparison.  Look at the maps below and keep in mind that one is population density for kilometres and the other in miles.  The density of the US population guarantees a higher infection rate.  But perhaps more importantly, who the **** cares? What stupid thing to debate.

Edited May 22, 2020 by OverSword

[DarkHunter]

Surprised no one has brought up how warmer temperatures and higher humidity levels seem to kill the virus.  Given that when the outbreak started globally Australia was in some of its hotter and more humid months it's not surprising that the outbreak was far less severe then in countries that had cold and dry conditions.

But what's really interesting is when Australia is compared to other countries/areas of similar population and climate.  For a quick example there is Taiwan.

Taiwan has a population of 23.78 million people compared to Australia's 24.99 million but Taiwan has a much higher population density.  The climate of both during the time of the outbreak is rather close, being slightly colder in Taiwan then Australia.  But what is interesting is that Australia has had 7,093 cases and 101 deaths while Taiwan has had 441 cases and 7 deaths, which is about 16 times more cases and about 15 times more deaths.

If we use the logic used by ChrLzs in this comparison then Australia has done horribly and has completely failed in handling the outbreak when compared to Taiwan.

[+DieChecker]

And....

Covid19 has nothing to do with Obamagate.

A summary...

https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-politics/what-obamagate

Also...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/11/senate-republicans-trump-obamagate-249734

Quote

President Donald Trump’s aggressive campaign to encourage sweeping investigations of his predecessor Barack Obama met a unanimous response from Senate Republicans: No thanks.

I think there may be a case for Flynn getting screwed over, but to assume Obama called for it is a bit much. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:04 PM, Manwon Lender said:

That is fine Duncun, I thought we were already doing that on this topic, did I miss something? 

Let me ask you this, where do you see the threat coming from?

Peace

Crickets!!!!

[ChrLzs]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:51 PM, joc said:

In reality Chuck...it's all about the exposure from China to Europe to the United States.  I appreciate your demographic responses but let me show you in a simple, understandable form how the United States of America differs ever so slightly from Australia:

Here is a map of the world...note the placement of The United States, Europe, China and Australia on the map.
{map and video removed, as I think most of us are familiar with the bleedingly obvious (except the US gov't, of course)}
Here is Air Traffic data of the World....note the number of planes going from China to Europe and from Europe to the US.  Note how few in comparison are the flights from China and Europe to Australia.

 

And your administration under Trump didn't know all that, apparently?  You do realise, don't you, that you are progressively making my point for me?  The more you tell me how obvious it was that the US should have moved quickly and intelligently, then the more obvious it is that they didn't.  I think it was the intelligence bit that they fell down on..

Edited May 24, 2020 by ChrLzs

[ChrLzs]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:28 AM, DarkHunter said:

Surprised no one has brought up how warmer temperatures and higher humidity levels seem to kill the virus.

Because that isn't true.  Or at least to date there is no convincing evidence for it.  Some viruses do seem to be affected by weather, but given we have not had a full year of this one to study, you cannot draw any conclusions.

In fact, it initially spread very quickly here, but we quickly responded and have other demographics that have meant it was also speedily controlled.

Edited May 24, 2020 by ChrLzs

[+joc]

21 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

And your administration under Trump didn't know all that, apparently?  You do realise, don't you, that you are progressively making my point for me?  The more you tell me how obvious it was that the US should have moved quickly and intelligently, then the more obvious it is that they didn't.  I think it was the intelligence bit that they fell down on..

You do realize don't you ChrLzs that shutting down Australia compared to shutting down the United States of America is a ridiculous comparison to begin with?  There isn't an administration that could have done any better.  We are a free people.  We are the largest economy in the world and your comparisons are at best...silly.

Your hatred for our President is overriding your otherwise very sound reasoning skills.  This isn't Trumps fault.  It is a pandemic...and...as Americans...we react to such things differently than the itsy, witsy, tiny little country of Australia...which by the way...we all love and admire.  

You are fighting a loosing battle...so...I'm just going to say...'fair thee well'...to the absolutely idiotic arguments you are making.  You are a good guy and I like and respect you very much my friend.  Just going to leave this argument here on the steps of your overwhelming non-understanding of the realm of what is America.

Peace/Out

[+and-then]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:04 AM, Manwon Lender said:

That is fine Duncun, I thought we were already doing that on this topic, did I miss something? 

Let me ask you this, where do you see the threat coming from?

Peace

Any country with basic capabilities to create such an EMP pulse, even on a limited scale, if they are sufficiently motivated.  As you said, EMPs need not be caused by nuclear detonations alone.  The other threat, probably more likely, actually, is a naturally occurring coronal mass ejection that strikes our grid.  Whatever the cause, the cure would be spending the money to harden civilian power grids and no one is willing to try to spend the money to do it.  Don't you find that the least bit curious?

 

On 5/23/2020 at 5:54 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Crickets!!!!

I am not on every day.  Some threads I only go back to occasionally, especially those where opposing ideas make no real difference in the discussions.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Any country with basic capabilities to create such an EMP pulse, even on a limited scale, if they are sufficiently motivated.  As you said, EMPs need not be caused by nuclear detonations alone.  The other threat, probably more likely, actually, is a naturally occurring coronal mass ejection that strikes our grid.  Whatever the cause, the cure would be spending the money to harden civilian power grids and no one is willing to try to spend the money to do it.  Don't you find that the least bit curious?

 

I am not on every day.  Some threads I only go back to occasionally, especially those where opposing ideas make no real difference in the discussions.  

Like I have said, I do find it surprising but there is nothing we an do about it. I would recommend getting a Hardened 5kw generator and stocking up on fuel. A 5kw will run your entire house with no problem at all and they can be set to automatically start as soon as the power go's own and stop when it is restored. 

The peace of mind is worth the money, and just never know what could happen and when. 

Peace Duncan, I post to almost any reply I receive to my comments whether they are opposing ideas that make no difference or not, I think its a matter of respect and so I feel obligated to do so. Oh except for people who offer only opinion without proof that there comments have merit. Yesterday in this thread  above Ravenfoot and Roofgarder posted their opinions without back up documentation to show where information came from, So I told them I will no longer debate someone's opinion that is the most foolish, and delusional thing I could do, so I will never discuss things with people who don't post links to their information source from this point forward, it not worth my time.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[micahc]

no such thing as Obama gate.  just a diversion.  trump desperately trying to invent a scandal and a villain.  Obama is the man Trump wishes he could be.  Narcissistic sociopaths really despise themselves. they really are afraid they will be exposed for the little flawed person they really are. Trump knows deep down he is a sad excuse for a man.

[acidhead]

 

[Agent0range]

1 hour ago, acidhead said:

 

So, let's use the definition you provided, and break it down with some critical thinking.  Obama is being accused of weaponizing the FBI to keep Trump from the Presidency, correct?  Now, let us all remember what really happened.  2 weeks before the election, James Comey went on television and said that Clinton's investigation was being reopened.  Donald Trump stated "no one under investigation by the FBI can be elected."  Now, Trump wins the election, the transition of power occurred smoothly, and it wasn't until WELL AFTER that we learned the Trump campaign was under investigation.  So, if any of that makes any sense, can you please provide the reasoning for not telling the American people that the Trump campaign was under investigation?  K, thanks.

[ChrLzs]

On 5/27/2020 at 5:32 AM, acidhead said:

 

Laughable.  Nonspecific bulldung.  From the usual sources, both originally and the poster here - contentless.

[Agent0range]

52 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Laughable.  Nonspecific bulldung.  From the usual sources, both originally and the poster here - contentless.

Definitely laughable.  Again.  The American public was not aware of the FBI investigation before the election.  That crushes the whole argument.  Let's see how many investigations Trump's crony Billy Barr launches.  None, because this is nothing more than a diversion.  Trump may write up a warrant with a sharpie right before the election to prove he was right.

[+and-then]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:46 PM, Manwon Lender said:

but there is nothing we an do about it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-22/hardening-power-grids-for-nuclear-and-emp-attacks-by-north-korea

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dipkabhambhani/2019/05/03/emp-study-threat-to-u-s-grid-is-manageable-electric-sector-says-it-would-be-ready/#555ffc3b7c27

https://securethegrid.com/emp-technologys-worst-nightmare/

Not only can we do it, it would be DIRT CHEAP.  As I said, do you ever wonder WHY no one is interested in taking basic precautions against an event that studies have shown could decimate our population by between 60 and 90 percent?  

[+and-then]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:37 AM, DieChecker said:

I'd disagree with that. I've always said hold him responsible. But, I do agree with Trump's platforms, if not his every word and quote. 

I think the greater majority of Trump's supporters feel the same. He's a loose cannon, and says stupid stuff, but he's way better then the alternative. At least IMHO. 

Most who support him feel exactly the same but this isn't about rationality or logic or even truth.  The attacks are about tribalism, polarization and an absolute desire to crush those in the nation who disagree with them.  It's dangerous and those who are so fully engaged in it will find that out someday to their cost as well as everyone else's.  It's the damnedest thing I've ever seen.  If you agree with Trump policies you are the enemy of America, apparently.  The disturbing aspect of it all is that those who believe this, REALLY DO believe it.  The fact that the group they so casually think of as idiots, racists, homophobes and Xenophobes are HALF the voting population.  That fact doesn't seem to cause them the slightest pause.  Uncanny.

[Grim Reaper 6]

Morning all, well another Trump Supporter is Jumping of the Trump Ship, and it's only beginning. People with a conscience can't no longer support his erratic behavior, while it has taken sometime for this to happen, Hugh Death Tolls of Americans will make this happen!!!!  

Even Fox News Commentator Sean Hannity an Ardent Trump supporter is turning his back on President Trumps foolish policy of not wearing a Mask. But, as usual the President continues to frame this as a Pollical issue and not a public health issue. Mr. Hannity is latest one to literally beg the American people to wear masks on public, Television. It seems that Trumps supporters are throwing him under the Bus, due to the New Death toll in the United States. Looks like one more Rat is jumping  of the Presidents sinking ship.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/tunedin/sean-hannity-begs-people-to-wear-masks-as-president-trump-mocks-reporters-who-do/vi-BB14GDDS?ocid=spartanntp

Peace 

[ChrLzs]

23 hours ago, and then said:

The fact that the group they so casually think of as idiots, racists, homophobes and Xenophobes are HALF the voting population.

That's what you get from voluntary voting and offering just two awful choices (combined with apathy and over confidence).....   

 

Did you also know, and then, that half of the total population (well, 49.999% of them) are of below average intelligence?

Uncanny.

[Golden Duck]

24 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

That's what you get from voluntary voting and offering just two awful choices (combined with apathy and over confidence).....   

 

Did you also know, and then, that half of the total population (well, 49.999% of them) are of below average intelligence?

Uncanny.

Some BOTE numbers.

Voter turnout was 55 per cent in 2016.  That's 126 million votes.  So 63 million support Trump.

[F3SS]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:46 PM, Manwon Lender said:

Like I have said, I do find it surprising but there is nothing we an do about it. I would recommend getting a Hardened 5kw generator and stocking up on fuel. A 5kw will run your entire house with no problem at all and they can be set to automatically start as soon as the power go's own and stop when it is restored. 

The peace of mind is worth the money, and just never know what could happen and when. 

Peace Duncan, I post to almost any reply I receive to my comments whether they are opposing ideas that make no difference or not, I think its a matter of respect and so I feel obligated to do so. Oh except for people who offer only opinion without proof that there comments have merit. Yesterday in this thread  above Ravenfoot and Roofgarder posted their opinions without back up documentation to show where information came from, So I told them I will no longer debate someone's opinion that is the most foolish, and delusional thing I could do, so I will never discuss things with people who don't post links to their information source from this point forward, it not worth my time.

Dude if an emp knocks out our power grid I don't think your generator is going to be very useful unless you live in a very rural area and know how to survive off the land. Lights are nice and all but there will be no food and no gas for your furnace in the winter if somehow you haven't been chased out by marauders or left out of desperation. That's an apocalyptic situation. 

Also, don't be so sensational. Sean Hannity will never stop loving Trump. He's head over heals for him.

[Tatetopa]

On 5/27/2020 at 6:07 PM, and then said:

Not only can we do it, it would be DIRT CHEAP.  As I said, do you ever wonder WHY no one is interested in taking basic precautions against an event that studies have shown could decimate our population by between 60 and 90 percent?  

Yes, it seems foolish.  I think it was dismissive thinking and lack of desire to spend money.  It happens on so many problems, individuals and nations both do it.  That whole Black Swan event that the financial guy wrote the book on comes to mind.