covid19 triumph for trump

[RoofGardener]

9 minutes ago, acute said:

Do the Trumpian 'virus deniers' only watch Fox, the whole Fox, and nothing but Fox?

Per capita, the USA is way ahead in Covid deaths. It's not up for debate.

I'm not sure of your meaning, @acute. If you mean "the USA has many fewer deaths per capita" than many European nations, then yes, you are correct  

 

[acute]

I give up! 

[Maureen_jacobs]

18 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

In the U.S. testing is poor.  If you live in Texas it takes 4 days to get the result of the test, if you live in NM it takes 10 days.  The Navajo nation requested tests from the federal government/cdc in March and got body bags instead!!!  @X##@

There seems to be some purpose to the **** mess of testing in our country.  I have said it before.  I like to examine conspiracies, without buying into them, but this one seems obvious as no other country is having the "problems" the "greatest country" in the world is having.  I know any time something goes on like this it is because someone, somewhere is making money from it or setting themselves up to make money quickly.

I believe many of the issues lie within the state leadership and not the country leadership.  For some reason, we elect inept folks to their positions and they fail us.  Evidently, being convicted of any crime does not preclude you from running for office.  Intelligence is also negotiable.  Having qualifications to do said job, also optional.  We need to learn about our candidates and take our time in electing the right one.  Problem is, folks just don’t care....until something happens.  
 

 

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Going through the posts all I see is negativity from the usual anti-Trump culprits.

Is Trump perfect? no.

Is Trump the totally incompetent monster the left constantly make him out to be? no.

He has his positives and negatives just like everyone else. He has done some good things as president and his main strength is he shines at economics. He is also strong enough to give the American public what they really want, that is populist policies. While I find the guy funny and entertaining, his main weakness is he says too many things that wind people up. Thats partly why the American public were basically split 50/50 at the last election. He would have upset many women with his comments costing him a 55/45 victory. Thats his punishment for not considering everyone in the centre which have no political allegiance towards the Republicans or Democrats.

With Coronavirus I hate to point it out but he is doing quite well. I would say to those who hate upon him to take a look at how other countries are managing Coronavirus. Trump is not bottom of the pack, or anywhere near it. He is doing well once we take into consideration the size of the US population. If we scale up UK, France, and Italy figures by a factor of 5.2 so our population matches the American one, then the USA has a low death rate. The developing world is now seeing its cases accelerate and they are going to drift up to the top of the table soon.

For those who like to see Trump in a wholly negative light you might want to prepare yourself as he is clear favourite to win the 2020 election. That is looking at neutral media outlets from around the world.

I personally think the only country on the planet doing the right thing with Coronavirus is Sweden. That is no lockdown, just let it go through the population. I say that because scientists state the chances of a vaccination any time soon are small, and by the time one emerges we will have herd immunity anyway. The only lockdown countries should be doing are keeping the elderly inside and those with underlying health problems. The rest of us are unlikely to die from Coronavirus so we are just running up our national debts for little gain.

In fact, I would advocate an even more controversial approach than that. That is, actually give everyone in the country except those in the at risk groups the virus to get it over and done with. Death cannot be prevented in everyone. Dragging it out causes not only the same death but higher national debts. We should brace ourselves, and take the hit like the typical stiff upper lipped Englishman and Englishwomen that we are. If we have to take a hit for our country then so be it! For Britain!!!

You like that? I can tell you are ex-military lol.

[DingoLingo]

20 hours ago, OverSword said:

Oh good.  Winning the pandemic.  

I love that pic! seriously where did you find that one 

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

So your are saying that Statista.com is somehow biased, or is misrepresenting the figures ? The method of counting is simple: deaths per million population. That seems fairly straightforward ? 

Well, if you don't like THEM, try https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data . You have to scroll down to find the map of the world with different colours for different countries. Click on the colour bar underneath the map to highlight the countries that have that death level. 

Either way you cut it, the USA has done MUCH better than many other major countries. It's worth bearing that in mind before criticising President Trump in extravagant terms. 

The entire statistical process serves no purpose, and no country is using this process to determine their death toll. Nobody, wants to here this, and unless it is adopted as the World Standard for calculating a Nations death toll you are wasting your time bring this up to me. All I see is that more than 93,000 Americans are dead, I don't care about your statistical process and neither do their families. Do you realize that with that many deaths Nationwide, that every American knows either someone who died directly or they know through a friend of someone's death. The people who are responsible for these deaths will not be forgiven, and our election process will identify how the AMERICAN Public feels and who they blame.

Roofy, there is no use in discussing this any further, we have beaten this horse to death. I think I have made myself clear that I do not value your opinion in this matter, and I think you should realize that its hard to take you serious, because you don't have a dog in this fight.

Peace

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, DingoLingo said:

I love that pic! seriously where did you find that one 

I think I searched dark cloud silver lining.

[the13bats]

9 hours ago, acidhead said:

Trumps communication skills are genius. He speaks to the whole audience. He purposely avoids using academic words so everybody understands. Academics hate this.  It burns their ego. 

You have a point,

Not something one sees much, genius and trump together,

trump does naturally speak in much the same lowbrow way as his worshippers so sure they understand him to a degree,  in Some cases the white house has to translate or explain what don really meant, or correct his blunders when hes wrong, often, so sure some folks are lost on some of the stuff he babbles out.

Trump 2020

Edited May 21, 2020 by the13bats
ta ta typo

[+Desertrat56]

2 hours ago, Maureen_jacobs said:

I believe many of the issues lie within the state leadership and not the country leadership.  For some reason, we elect inept folks to their positions and they fail us.  Evidently, being convicted of any crime does not preclude you from running for office.  Intelligence is also negotiable.  Having qualifications to do said job, also optional.  We need to learn about our candidates and take our time in electing the right one.  Problem is, folks just don’t care....until something happens.  
 

 

I know that our previous governor was inept, and some of the current governors are in other stated, but we have a good governor now and you must not have understood my first paragraph.  They asked for test kits and got body bags!!! That is a federal issue, not local.  As soon as they were available our governor got as many test kits as she could to get people tested.  The rules were set because there is a shortage for some reason of tests.  Not a shortage by the governor or local government, but by the Feds! 

 

[the13bats]

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

s Trump perfect? no.

Is Trump the totally incompetent monster the left constantly make him out to be? no.

Perfect? No...hey we agreed.

Incompetent? Yes, very much so, its what makes don don, monster? Not so much so, not yet anyway.

 

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Going through the posts all I see is negativity from the usual anti-Trump culprits

You missed all the blind delusions and empty excuses posted by trump worshippers for dons epic fails, they run about 60% to 40% negative remarks about all dons blunders.

[the13bats]

2 hours ago, Maureen_jacobs said:

I believe many of the issues lie within the state leadership and not the country leadership.  For some reason, we elect inept folks to their positions and they fail us.  Evidently, being convicted of any crime does not preclude you from running for office.  Intelligence is also negotiable.  Having qualifications to do said job, also optional.  We need to learn about our candidates and take our time in electing the right one.  Problem is, folks just don’t care....until something happens.  
 

 

Yep, pretty heart  breaking that the USA only has don and joe to choose from for 2020, neither are worthy to be potus.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

The entire statistical process serves no purpose, and no country is using this process to determine their death toll. Nobody, wants to here this, and unless it is adopted as the World Standard for calculating a Nations death toll you are wasting your time bring this up to me. All I see is that more than 93,000 Americans are dead, I don't care about your statistical process and neither do their families. Do you realize that with that many deaths Nationwide, that every American knows either someone who died directly or they know through a friend of someone's death. The people who are responsible for these deaths will not be forgiven, and our election process will identify how the AMERICAN Public feels and who they blame.

Roofy, there is no use in discussing this any further, we have beaten this horse to death. I think I have made myself clear that I do not value your opinion in this matter, and I think you should realize that its hard to take you serious, because you don't have a dog in this fight.

Peace

Hi @Manwon Lender. Umm... you seem determined to sidestep the point ? We are not talking about how death tolls are counted/calculated. Non of the links I posted discussed these methods; they merely compared reported death rates from different countries, and did a simple per-capita calculation.

The point I was making is that the American response to Covid-19 doesn't appear to be that bad, based on death rates. Thus far, its mortality rate per million of population is much lower in the USA than many European states. It's worth bearing in mind when criticising President Trump for his "poor" response ? 

In effect, he's done better than Boris Johnson, Edouard Philippe, Sophie Wilmès, and Stefan Löfven, to name but a few. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by RoofGardener

[Gromdor]

32 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hi @Manwon Lender. Umm... you seem determined to sidestep the point ? We are not talking about how death tolls are counted/calculated. Non of the links I posted discussed these methods; they merely compared reported death rates from different countries, and did a simple per-capita calculation.

The point I was making is that the American response to Covid-19 doesn't appear to be that bad, based on death rates. Thus far, its mortality rate per million of population is much lower in the USA than many European states. It's worth bearing in mind when criticising President Trump for his "poor" response ? 

In effect, he's done better than Boris Johnson, Edouard Philippe, Sophie Wilmès, and Stefan Löfven, to name but a few. 

Eh, you can't use that system to accurately judge performance.  It's basically just saying that we have more healthy people that haven't been exposed yet that we can use dilute the numbers and make us look better.   If we want to judge our medical treatments we would be looking at the mortality and hospitalization rates of the infected for instance.  If we want to see how we are doing for containment and social distancing then the rate of new infections would be used. 

[SHaYap]

You folks still have no idea what this new virus is all about and what it is doing and what it can do... 

I mean really, seriously... 

~

[Michelle]

7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Really, its getting to the point where Trump Supports don't even answer posts when they quote you.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't generally respond when someone is trying to bait me. I also don't respond to people who are generally verbally abusive and can't have a civil conversation. I have been avoiding the forum for a while now because I'm tired of all the vitriol.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

For those who like to see Trump in a wholly negative light you might want to prepare yourself as he is clear favourite to win the 2020 election. That is looking at neutral media outlets from around the world.

Right up to that pesky pandemic he ballsed up.

Quote

Trump to lose 2020 election in a landslide defeat, model predicts

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/donald-trump-lose-election-joe-biden-2020-economy-coronavirus-a9525131.html

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

The entire statistical process serves no purpose, and no country is using this process to determine their death toll. Nobody, wants to here this, and unless it is adopted as the World Standard for calculating a Nations death toll you are wasting your time bring this up to me. All I see is that more than 93,000 Americans are dead, I don't care about your statistical process and neither do their families. Do you realize that with that many deaths Nationwide, that every American knows either someone who died directly or they know through a friend of someone's death. The people who are responsible for these deaths will not be forgiven, and our election process will identify how the AMERICAN Public feels and who they blame.

Roofy, there is no use in discussing this any further, we have beaten this horse to death. I think I have made myself clear that I do not value your opinion in this matter, and I think you should realize that its hard to take you serious, because you don't have a dog in this fight.

Peace

For a population of 330 million people it isn't that high.

We also need to remember that while the USA has passed its peak along with many other western countries this is not America on the road to recovery. This is here for the foreseeable future spreading around our countries at whatever rate our lockdowns and social distancing policies dictate. It wont stop until herd immunity has been gained

You wont know how the US has performed until most of the worlds final death tolls are in. In the meantime you guys should 80% max out your hospital capacity while letting the virus spread. Unless the vaccination development claims are more than blowing smoke up peoples butts. If there is a realistic chance of a vaccine, and everything I have read says there isn't, then the same death toll come the end is unavoidable.

Germany has the lowest death rates amongst European/North American nations. But, they went into this with a unique advantage in that they had the largest pharmaceutical industry with by far the most testing labs. Therefore they were in the position to adopt a different strategy going into Coronavirus - testing and contact tracing right from the get go. But all Germany has done is spread its deaths out, because with no vaccine it isn't going away until their population has gained herd immunity.

[Duke Wellington]

12 minutes ago, Setton said:

Right up to that pesky pandemic he ballsed up.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/donald-trump-lose-election-joe-biden-2020-economy-coronavirus-a9525131.html

I find it remarkable that a model can be developed to predict the outcome of the US election when its been over 100 years since the last time a pandemic on this scale occurred.

Going off what I have seen in UK politics over the decades then the electorate punish a leader when they make a huge mistake. Our last one was Gordan Brown. He (along with phoney Tony) had declared an illegal war, overseen sloppy regulation of our financial sector hitting us hard in 2008, was pro-immigration, pro-EU, had sold our gold, had raided our pension funds, and despite the resentment felt towards him for all of this decided to make himself PM without an election. We gave him a kick-in putting David Cameron in charge.

When problems occur that arent caused by a leader we haven't punished them. For example, we didnt punish David Cameron for austerity because we realised the economic problems weren't his creation. Similar thinking will occur with Trump. The loyal left and loyal right are irrelevant in an election, its the centre who are king makers. The centre have no political bias and will assess the performance of Trump clinically. They will ask themselves how has he done on the economy, how has he dont fighting illegal immigration, and how has he done against Coronavirus.

The economy was booming under him before Coronavirus, and Coronavirus was not his fault. The Democrats played games to stop the whole Mexican wall being build so it is not Trumps fault. When it comes to the death toll from Coronavirus as I have already pointed out the USA is doing well. If it passes 200,000 then we will start to see genuine criticism of his strategy rather than the criticise him no matter what approach from the loyal left. Until, and if that time comes, then Trump is doing a good job. Looking forward to 2021 and beyond then the economic recovery of the USA will be important. Going off the economic policies of Trump compared to socialism then I think you would find the majority of Americans would rather have Trump in charge.

And, you might not want to hear this, if Trump is convinced he will lose (and everything I see says he wont) then he might declare a nation emergency suspending the election to 2021 when the economic rebound has finished.

[Setton]

21 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I find it remarkable that a model can be developed to predict the outcome of the US election when its been over 100 years since the last time a pandemic on this scale occurred.

You didn't read the link at all did you? It's not based on the pandemic but the state of the economy. He was expected to win, now he's expected to lose. The model has correctly predicted 16 of the last 18 elections.

Quote

 

And, you might not want to hear this, if Trump is convinced he will lose (and everything I see says he wont) then he might declare a nation emergency suspending the election to 2021 when the economic rebound has finished.

Literally everyone (except you apparently) has already considered that. Hopefully the US checks and balances are enough to prevent any such abuse of power.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

And, you might not want to hear this, if Trump is convinced he will lose (and everything I see says he wont) then he might declare a nation emergency suspending the election to 2021 when the economic rebound has finished.

So, you are a proponent of Trump being the "last U.S. President" by him becoming a dictator.  There are laws in place to keep that from happening, and in order to declare a national emergency that would keep an election from happening he has to have the backing of Congress and Senate, he is not a Prime Minister, he is a President with two other governing bodies as checks and balance.  As messed up as our congress and senate are, they won't support something that keeps an election from not happening unless all cities are burning and they are in the bunker waiting for the radiation to clear up.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Duke Wellington]

10 minutes ago, Setton said:

You didn't read the link at all did you? It's not based on the pandemic but the state of the economy. He was expected to win, now he's expected to lose. The model has correctly predicted 16 of the last 18 elections.

Literally everyone (except you apparently) has already considered that. Hopefully the US checks and balances are enough to prevent any such abuse of power.

I have considered how the US economy is going to play out.

I think this quarter it will be a contraction of 50% to 75%, but the underlying cause of the recession isn't permanent. The US economy will rally when the lockdown ends as it will everywhere else. That is expected to occur in Q4 during which the US has its election.

If I was in Trumps shoes right now I would deal with the queues of people that have started to form at food banks. If it passes a million people he needs to do some more helicopter cash so the public can feed themselves. Then all he needs to do is wait and let the economy rebound. He also needs to make sure businesses are supported when the lockdown ends, but not those who were in the poo before Coronavirus.

I predict Trump will have some tricks up his sleeve. With Coronavirus he now has his excuse to go full whack on China so I think a wide range of tariffs are inbound. There is a further matter to consider and that is if the Democrats would do any better on the economy. From what I have seen of Biden`s manifesto I`m not convinced, but who knows he might make adjustments to capitalise on the Coronavirus situation. As it is right now I would say no.

If the US election was in Q2 I would say Trump is done for, but its not. Its pencilled in for Q4. What will matter is people asking themselves did I go hungry? Or did I lose my business? Or am I now expected to lose my business?

[Setton]

39 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I have considered how the US economy is going to play out.

I think this quarter it will be a contraction of 50% to 75%, but the underlying cause of the recession isn't permanent. The US economy will rally when the lockdown ends as it will everywhere else. That is expected to occur in Q4 during which the US has its election.

And the results of which will not be known until Q1 2021. QED.

The fact that the US has also just let millions become unemployed rather than the UK style subsidy will also slow recovery. Taking your (optimistic) scenario, I'd expect the following progression: rebound in Q4, employers decide they can afford more staff, advertise jobs, Trump voted out, people get new jobs, crisis over, vote for Trump, realise what step 4 was, buy snazzy blue hat instead.

[+Desertrat56]

40 minutes ago, Setton said:

And the results of which will not be known until Q1 2021. QED.

The fact that the US has also just let millions become unemployed rather than the UK style subsidy will also slow recovery. Taking your (optimistic) scenario, I'd expect the following progression: rebound in Q4, employers decide they can afford more staff, advertise jobs, Trump voted out, people get new jobs, crisis over, vote for Trump, realise what step 4 was, buy snazzy blue hat instead.

Another problem is that landlords who only own a small apartment complex or a house will not get rent and loose their property, which will be bought by a large corporation that has been buying up rental property for some years and turning a huge profit by finding ways to evict the renters, often leaving people homeless.   Homelessness is going to skyrocket in the next few months.  I have already seen one woman living in her car in a parking lot between a bank and a supermarket. 

The U.S. does not have laws that protect renters.   In fact this country has more laws protecting big business than citizens.

I hope your scenario plays out, but I am not so sure it will.  You all get different news than we do and when I watch the news (very rarely) I try to find a source outside of the U.S., usually Telemudo but sometimes BBC. 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Desertrat56

[RavenHawk]

On 5/20/2020 at 11:08 AM, the13bats said:

testing doesnt change 90k extra deaths in a few months time.

90k extra deaths?  So how many should have died?

[Gromdor]

It amuses me that he has a different standard for himself than from others.  Take the Ebola outbreak in 2014: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/26/21154253/trump-ebola-tweets-coronavirus

If he meant what he said back then he would have apologized and quit after the first death.