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Hugh Mungus

Biden withheld $1 Billion from Ukraine

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Golden Duck
12 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Surely you know what a "conflict of interest" is? When a conflict of interest arises, you should excuse yourself from the situation. This doesn't just apply in a political or judicial setting, but even in business. For example, an organization i was working for was implementing a new computer system. By chance, my father was working for the company setting it up. The system had some issues and my fathers company approached him to resolve it. He said that his son worked at the organization and he couldn't in good faith get involved, even though neither of us were directly related to either ordering or implementing the new system. This is called declaring a conflict of interest.

 

What Biden did was put himself right in the middle of the issue without declaring any conflict of interest. He was the one threatening to withhold funds. Do you believe this was a smart move?

The press pretty much declared the interest.  Numerous other administrations wanted Shokin out.  Shokin going doesn't appear to be in the best interest for Hunter. 

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Hugh Mungus
2 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

The press pretty much declared the interest.  Numerous other administrations wanted Shokin out.  Shokin going doesn't appear to be in the best interest for Hunter. 

You don't believe that someone with the power to withhold $1 billion in agreed loans getting involved in a Ukrainian domestic issue sends a clear message about what would happen if his son was found to be guilty of a crime?

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Golden Duck

Perhaps if:

  • Biden was acting on his own; and
  • Shokin was making progress on the investigation.

You're relying on counterfactuals.

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thedutchiedutch

For people that really want to know, here is an interesting article about this.

Why Was Ukraine's Top Prosecutor Fired?

KYIV -- When Viktor Shokin was fired as Ukraine's prosecutor-general in March 2016, after less than 14 months in the post, it was seen as a crucial development in a country under pressure to curb corruption and get serious about reforms. Now Shokin’s dismissal, and Ukraine itself, are at the center of a political whirlwind in Washington that is buffeting Donald Trump's presidency and playing into the 2020 White House race.

Link to full article & Source https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html

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the13bats

I am flooded, sure i hear people over 3 years later crying about all the power that Obama and hilly, the dems have, i never believed it,

But this is jarring that with such smoking gun evidense against joey hes not locked up in the hoscow,

I am now a believer of the dems power.

 

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, and then said:

The video is well known for months.  Biden was bragging about what he did and the only reason he isn't in trouble for it is the media double standard that always forgives Dems and accuses Rs.  He was working for his uncle-daddy Barry Soetoro, AKA the Kenyan Wunderkind.  The most recent audio of the phone call between Joe and Poroshenko occurred shortly after they complied and fired Shokin.  You really should pay more attention.  Oh yeah, and wipe your chin, you're drooling again...

There have been a number of things that Biden and Obama have done wrong that could be talked about without making stuff up.

The video was not a secret, the action was not a secret.  The USA, the EU and the IMF all wanted the prosecutor fired because he was corrupt.  He was not investigating Biden's son at the time.  The Pentagon even questioned giving aid to  Ukraine becuase the government was so corrupt. In effect Biden saved US taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. 

You are letting your ODS run away with your logic. 

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Kismit

Kiaora @Hugh Mungus,

it's interesting that with the political coverage we have had in New Zealand this last week that this would be your topic of importance,

incidentally, how do you feel about this weeks events in New Zealand? 

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and then
3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You are letting your ODS run away with your logic. 

Let's just watch it unfold, shall we?  It will become more and more difficult to whistle past this graveyard, IMO.

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Hugh Mungus
1 hour ago, Kismit said:

Kiaora @Hugh Mungus,

it's interesting that with the political coverage we have had in New Zealand this last week that this would be your topic of importance,

incidentally, how do you feel about this weeks events in New Zealand? 

Not sure what you are referring to but it does seem off topic. Perhaps you could DM me?

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Setton
8 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

 After all the drama about Trumps phone call to the Ukrainian President supposedly using influence to dig up dirt on Biden's son, i am very surprised that the above clip is not well known.

Biden admits point blank that he told the Ukrainians that if they don't immediately fire the prosecutor looking into his sons business they wont get a $1 billion dollar loan.

 

A direct quote from the above clip:

Now there is a new phone recording released between Biden and Ukrainian president Poroshenko, covered by the daily wire which confirms the deal agreed to between the two countries.

 

Poroshenko thanks Biden for keeping his word that they money would be transferred once the Prosecutor was fired and reiterates the deal made.

 

Can someone please remind me why Trump was hauled through the coals over Ukraine?

Perhaps because Trump's call was to target a political rival whereas Biden's was to remove a corrupt official that most of the world was also trying to remove?

Also, if you think this is news and hasn't been extensively discussed, please return to your rock.

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Montmorency the Dog

Well,this is something I do commend him for. A billion may be hardly enough to even be noticed in the leaky bucket of US Government finances, of course, but it is at least a very small amount of US taxpayers' money that wasn't thrown away in that corrupt little (well ok, geographically pretty big) cr*phole of a country.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, Setton said:

Perhaps because Trump's call was to target a political rival whereas Biden's was to remove a corrupt official that most of the world was also trying to remove?

Also, if you think this is news and hasn't been extensively discussed, please return to your rock.

An official of a foreign nation - who happened to be investigating his son. 
Corrupt official or not, Biden did exactly what Trump did.

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Setton
2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

An official of a foreign nation - who happened to be investigating his son. 
Corrupt official or not, Biden did exactly what Trump did.

No, the equivalent would be Biden insisting Ukraine drop any investigation into his son in return for money, not just firing one corrupt official.

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Kittens Are Jerks
10 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Surely you know what a "conflict of interest" is? When a conflict of interest arises, you should excuse yourself from the situation. This doesn't just apply in a political or judicial setting, but even in business. For example, an organization i was working for was implementing a new computer system. By chance, my father was working for the company setting it up. The system had some issues and my fathers company approached him to resolve it. He said that his son worked at the organization and he couldn't in good faith get involved, even though neither of us were directly related to either ordering or implementing the new system. This is called declaring a conflict of interest.

What Biden did was put himself right in the middle of the issue without declaring any conflict of interest. He was the one threatening to withhold funds. Do you believe this was a smart move?

Surely you know that as Vice President Biden was tasked with reducing corruption in the Ukraine and that the White House at the time determined there was no conflict of interest. Furthermore, it is misleading to suggest that Biden deliberately inserted himself and that the fact that he was the one who delivered the message regarding the withholding of funds had any significance or ulterior motives. Shokin's investigation of Burisma had been inactive for a year by the time Biden got involved in his ouster. If Biden wanted to help his son, he would have left Shokin alone, rather than have him replaced with someone who was tougher on corruption.

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Kittens Are Jerks
11 hours ago, and then said:

Well...except for the newly released audio of a Biden Poroshenko phone call that proves, yet again, the quid-pro-Joe.  Add to that an ongoing criminal probe in Ukraine against pervy Joe and maybe it's the story that just won't be allowed to die?

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived

I don't doubt the Ds would be quite happy to push this under a rug.  Not gonna happen...

The newly released recordings contain zero evidence of wrongdoing on Biden's part.

What is interesting, however, is Andriy Derkach's impressively long history of ties to Russia and Russian intelligence. Also interesting is the fact that he met with Rudy Giuliani in Kiev just last December. If the recordings prove anything, it's that the effort to smear Biden with bogus accusations is still ongoing.

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and then
37 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

it's that the effort to smear Biden with bogus accusations is still ongoing.

Yeah...poor Joe, always so misunderstood.  He, Comey, Clapper and the gang should all get together and commiserate with each other.  Meanwhile, the folks in UKRAINE can continue to investigate.  Apparently, they didn't get the Democrat memo on his innocence.

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OrangeOaf
14 hours ago, and then said:

The video is well known for months.  Biden was bragging about what he did and the only reason he isn't in trouble for it is the media double standard that always forgives Dems and accuses Rs.  He was working for his uncle-daddy Barry Soetoro, AKA the Kenyan Wunderkind.  The most recent audio of the phone call between Joe and Poroshenko occurred shortly after they complied and fired Shokin.  You really should pay more attention.  Oh yeah, and wipe your chin, you're drooling again...

Quite alot of b.s. in that post. Maybe wipe your own chin first

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Gromdor
5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

An official of a foreign nation - who happened to be investigating his son. 
Corrupt official or not, Biden did exactly what Trump did.

Shokin wasn't investigating Biden's son........

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aztek
Quote

In 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Pshonka began investigating Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption during 2010–2012.

sinse biden's son of on burisma's board,  shokin was removed before he could find anything,as per biden request, that we can see him admit from a video,  that is clear as day, but not to everyone i guess,

Senate Republicans issue first subpoena in Biden-Burisma probe

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/498738-senate-republicans-issue-first-subpoena-in-obama-era-probes

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Gromdor

Yup. He joined Burisma's board in April 2014. 

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micahc
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, aztek said:

sinse biden's son of on burisma's board,  shokin was removed before he could find anything,as per biden request, that we can see him admit from a video,  that is clear as day, but not to everyone i guess,

Senate Republicans issue first subpoena in Biden-Burisma probe

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/498738-senate-republicans-issue-first-subpoena-in-obama-era-probes

hunter was not on the board then, and trump is corrupt which is plain for anyone to see, but not everyone I guess.  vote joe. end the Russian occupation of America.

Edited by micahc

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Kittens Are Jerks
3 hours ago, and then said:

Yeah...poor Joe, always so misunderstood.  He, Comey, Clapper and the gang should all get together and commiserate with each other.  Meanwhile, the folks in UKRAINE can continue to investigate.  Apparently, they didn't get the Democrat memo on his innocence.

Perhaps the memo got buried under the deluge of memos requesting more bogus 'evidence' so that the Republicans can continue with their inisdious charade.

If anyone should be commiserating with each other, it should be Trump, Giuliani, et al, who, despite their best, and shadiest, efforts, managed to get Trump impeached, but couldn't manage to get him ahead of Biden in the polls. But hey, that's typically the outcome of underhanded politically-motivated efforts fueled by fear and desperation.

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Tatetopa
9 hours ago, and then said:

Let's just watch it unfold, shall we?  It will become more and more difficult to whistle past this graveyard, IMO.

I with you on that.  Lets watch it unfold.  I am pretty comfortable with finding the truth, no matter which side is crooked.  In fact if everybody gets impeached and we have to start with a brand new Congress, I am in favor of that too.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Yup. He joined Burisma's board in April 2014. 

and shokin was fired in 2016, per biden's request, why would biden demand his removal if he had nothing to do with burisma and his son? do you think biden would threaten aid money over some corrupt officials he has nothign to do with?  yea, sure, lol

Edited by aztek
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