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XenoFish

Reality Tunnels

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zep73

It's funny you should make this thread right now, because I was just sitting, trying to formulate an OP about science being "just another belief system".

Now I don't have to. This covers it quite nicely!

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bison
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I used to call it a subjective filter. How our belief shape what we see, what we do, and how we feel. I know it now as a reality tunnel. A reality tunnel is a set of beliefs that shape our personal subjective reality. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_tunnel

A Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever brand of religion that a persons follow (if one at all) will act as just one of their filters for viewing life. This is how two people can see the same event as either being a miracle or luck. It is also how those who use the 'law of attraction' get what they want. Their brains seek out information to confirm their expectations. 

Everything that we believe removes a bit of objective reality and what we believe might not be real. No amount of belief that you can fly will allow you to survive a 30 story swan dive out a window. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. On the other hand believing in dare I say a more optimistic view can influence your behavior around others, same for a pessimistic views, both have their place in order to balance things. No one is fully optimistic or pessimistic (not even I am). 

Everything that you believe, that is a part of your reality tunnel is malleable. Be it a political, social, personal, religious view, it is all changeable. 

If you're rigidly following a specific viewpoint then you are creating a mindset. This mindset may be good to you and a bad thing to others as we do not share the same reality tunnel. If the mindset is productive all around it is deemed as good. The only limitation to it is ones own morality. 

One of the greatest sources of conflict is our own reality tunnels. All of us want to share ours with others and often they conflict. No one can change or influence another persons reality tunnel either. Making discussions and arguments almost pointless, only a person can change their reality tunnel. You can not change a persons mind, only they can change their mind. Quiet often, everything that everyone writes is just an opinion, based on a perspective and personal beliefs. Unless it is backed by facts and evidence. Then again you can't change a persons mind. 

Here's an experiment for Prometheus Rising.

“1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are going to find a quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it. See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

“2. Explain the above experiment by the hypothesis of ‘selective attention’—that is, believe there are lots of lost quarters everywhere and you were bound to find one by continually looking. Go looking for a second quarter.

“3. Explain the experiment by the alternative ‘mystical’ hypothesis that ‘mind controls everything.’ Believe that you made the quarter manifest in this universe. Go looking for a second quarter.

“4. Compare the time it takes to find the second quarter using the first hypothesis (attention) with the time it takes using the second hypothesis (mind-over-matter).

“5. With your own ingenuity, invent similar experiments and each time compare the two theories—‘selective attention’ (coincidence) vs. ‘mind controls everything’ (psychokinesis).

“6. Avoid coming to any strong conclusions prematurely. At the end of a month, re-read this… think it over again, and still postpone coming to any dogmatic conclusion. Believe it possible that you do not know everything yet, and that you might have something still to learn.”

This experiment is designed to help the reader understand the role of thought and belief in structuring the universe. Whatever it is that you think, your mind will immediately set about proving—the existence of God, the sovereignty of the American President, or any number of conspiracy theories. Your mind will find proofs of those things everywhere.

This way you can test it our yourself. 

Peace

Interesting ideas, XenoFish, about  testing hypotheses.  I suspect that testing the mystical one would measure both psychokinesis, if any, and selective attention at the same time. If one expects to manifest a quarter, one will probably also be looking for it. The 'mystical' hypothesis might even sharpen the attention better than the conventional one, confusing the meaning of the results. Tests of  pure PK have been devised by parapsychologists.

I have reservations about tests of the mystical hypothesis, in general. To whatever extent we have such powers as psychokinesis, they usually seem to work at a low level of efficiency, and erratically. Perhaps that's in keeping with the level of development of our species.

 

Edited by bison
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XenoFish
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, bison said:

Interesting ideas, XenoFish, about  testing hypotheses.  I suspect that testing the mystical one would measure both psychokinesis, if any, and selective attention at the same time. If one expects to manifest a quarter, one will probably also be looking for it. The 'mystical' hypothesis might even sharpen the attention better than the conventional one, confusing the meaning of the results. Tests of  pure PK have been devised by parapsychologists.

I have reservations about tests of the mystical hypothesis, in general. To whatever extent we have such powers as psychokinesis, they usually seem to work at a low level of efficiency, and erratically. Perhaps that's in keeping with the level of development of our species.

 

It's more of an explanation. If you think about finding a quarter and start finding them. You can explain it as being selective attention. You can also say it was some "quantum tomfoolery" or divine intervention. Regardless of the explanation you're using, it is the same process that makes it work. 

It's pretty much an engineered (intentional) form of confirmation bias.

Edited by XenoFish
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Piney
11 minutes ago, bison said:

I have reservations about tests of the mystical hypothesis, in general. To whatever extent we have such powers as psychokinesis, they usually seem to work at a low level of efficiency, and erratically. Perhaps that's in keeping with the level of development of our species.

People who assume we will evolve psychic powers don't understand evolution. It's caused by stresses which affect our survival as a species.  

Evolution follows the path of least resistance and we would need some serious environmental stresses to have need of such things. 

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Cookie Monster
53 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I used to call it a subjective filter. How our belief shape what we see, what we do, and how we feel. I know it now as a reality tunnel. A reality tunnel is a set of beliefs that shape our personal subjective reality. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_tunnel

A Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever brand of religion that a persons follow (if one at all) will act as just one of their filters for viewing life. This is how two people can see the same event as either being a miracle or luck. It is also how those who use the 'law of attraction' get what they want. Their brains seek out information to confirm their expectations. 

Everything that we believe removes a bit of objective reality and what we believe might not be real. No amount of belief that you can fly will allow you to survive a 30 story swan dive out a window. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. On the other hand believing in dare I say a more optimistic view can influence your behavior around others, same for a pessimistic views, both have their place in order to balance things. No one is fully optimistic or pessimistic (not even I am). 

Everything that you believe, that is a part of your reality tunnel is malleable. Be it a political, social, personal, religious view, it is all changeable. 

If you're rigidly following a specific viewpoint then you are creating a mindset. This mindset may be good to you and a bad thing to others as we do not share the same reality tunnel. If the mindset is productive all around it is deemed as good. The only limitation to it is ones own morality. 

One of the greatest sources of conflict is our own reality tunnels. All of us want to share ours with others and often they conflict. No one can change or influence another persons reality tunnel either. Making discussions and arguments almost pointless, only a person can change their reality tunnel. You can not change a persons mind, only they can change their mind. Quiet often, everything that everyone writes is just an opinion, based on a perspective and personal beliefs. Unless it is backed by facts and evidence. Then again you can't change a persons mind. 

Here's an experiment for Prometheus Rising.

“1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are going to find a quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it. See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

“2. Explain the above experiment by the hypothesis of ‘selective attention’—that is, believe there are lots of lost quarters everywhere and you were bound to find one by continually looking. Go looking for a second quarter.

“3. Explain the experiment by the alternative ‘mystical’ hypothesis that ‘mind controls everything.’ Believe that you made the quarter manifest in this universe. Go looking for a second quarter.

“4. Compare the time it takes to find the second quarter using the first hypothesis (attention) with the time it takes using the second hypothesis (mind-over-matter).

“5. With your own ingenuity, invent similar experiments and each time compare the two theories—‘selective attention’ (coincidence) vs. ‘mind controls everything’ (psychokinesis).

“6. Avoid coming to any strong conclusions prematurely. At the end of a month, re-read this… think it over again, and still postpone coming to any dogmatic conclusion. Believe it possible that you do not know everything yet, and that you might have something still to learn.”

This experiment is designed to help the reader understand the role of thought and belief in structuring the universe. Whatever it is that you think, your mind will immediately set about proving—the existence of God, the sovereignty of the American President, or any number of conspiracy theories. Your mind will find proofs of those things everywhere.

This way you can test it out yourself. 

Peace

Thats a nice comfort blanket you have there.

Now time to take it away. Lets take the idea that the mind can in some ways influence reality. Take thinking about something only for it then to later appear in reality.

If you straight jacket yourself into the view this is confirmation bias then not only do you ignore nonsense examples, if it does occur and is a real effect you also ignore that.

Hence you have you very own subjective filter LMAO.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Piney said:

People who assume we will evolve psychic powers don't understand evolution. It's caused by stresses which affect our survival as a species.  

Evolution follows the path of least resistance and we would need some serious environmental stresses to have need of such things. 

The only way I can see the need for psychokinesis is in a low G or zero G environment. Then again we might as well just developed webbed hands and feet to help propel ourselves. Of course this veers off topic.

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XenoFish
Just now, Cookie Monster said:

Thats a nice comfort blanket you have there.

Now time to take it away. Lets take the idea that the mind can in some ways influence reality. Take thinking about something only for it then to later appear in reality.

If you straight jacket yourself into the view this is confirmation bias then not only do you ignore nonsense examples, if it does occur and is a real effect you also ignore that.

Hence you have you very own subjective filter LMAO.

Thanks for repeating my OP. 

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Tatetopa
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It's more of an explanation. If you think about finding a quarter and start finding them.

Failed but still looking.  All I found was two nickels, five pennies and a dime.

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Cookie Monster
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Thanks for repeating my OP. 

Why thanks, thats kind of you.

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XenoFish

Actually Cookie Monster, thanks for showing up. You will be the example for this. You're constantly talking about this "hedonism for god" view you have. Where basically we are to indulge ourselves in pleasure for it is gods will. That in and of itself is your reality tunnel. It is your framework for viewing this. It is "correct" only to you.

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XenoFish
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Failed but still looking.  All I found was two nickels, five pennies and a dime.

Better luck next time.:lol:

Though your comment does bring up a good point. Sometimes we notice things that lead up to what we expect, that don't match our expectations. 

Edited by XenoFish
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HandsomeGorilla

It really is an interesting subject. It's why two people can be witness to the same event from the same vantage point, yet interpret it completely differently. You'll get two different stories but both people are 'telling the truth'... The truth according to them. 

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bison
13 minutes ago, Piney said:

People who assume we will evolve psychic powers don't understand evolution. It's caused by stresses which affect our survival as a species.  

Evolution follows the path of least resistance and we would need some serious environmental stresses to have need of such things. 

 Piney; Given the current state of the human condition, I'd say we might well be experiencing sufficient environmental stresses to stimulate the further development of psychic powers.

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, HandsomeGorilla said:

It really is an interesting subject. It's why two people can be witness to the same event from the same vantage point, yet interpret it completely differently. You'll get two different stories but both people are 'telling the truth'... The truth according to them. 

Same works with EVP's. If someone tells you what they heard. They've basically influenced your perception so that you might hear the same thing. You also might not hear it. 

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Tatetopa
11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Though your comment does bring up a good point. Sometimes we notice things that lead up to what we expect, you don't match our expectations. 

Yeah, that would be a tunnel I guess.  Especially if you never picked up all those coins because they were not a quarter.

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XenoFish
Just now, Tatetopa said:

Yeah, that would be a tunnel I guess.  Especially if you never picked up all those coins because they were not a quarter.

Pretty much. You can think of it as wishing for a $1000, then finding a $5, 10, 20's dollar bills. Getting paid back for something you did or getting some overtime at work. All of which amount to the original sum you desire. Might even take a year+ to occur. This same effect can be seen when someone buys a new car and starts noticing other cars like there's. Maybe even noticing before their purchase. 

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Piney
13 minutes ago, bison said:

 Piney; Given the current state of the human condition, I'd say we might well be experiencing sufficient environmental stresses to stimulate the further development of psychic powers.

Our problem right now is not enough stresses and a way overdue dieback situation. 

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XenoFish

http://news.mit.edu/2019/how-expectation-influences-perception-0715

For decades, research has shown that our perception of the world is influenced by our expectations. These expectations, also called “prior beliefs,” help us make sense of what we are perceiving in the present, based on similar past experiences. Consider, for instance, how a shadow on a patient’s X-ray image, easily missed by a less experienced intern, jumps out at a seasoned physician. The physician’s prior experience helps her arrive at the most probable interpretation of a weak signal.

The process of combining prior knowledge with uncertain evidence is known as Bayesian integration and is believed to widely impact our perceptions, thoughts, and actions. Now, MIT neuroscientists have discovered distinctive brain signals that encode these prior beliefs. They have also found how the brain uses these signals to make judicious decisions in the face of uncertainty.

Something I found that I feel is worth sharing.

 

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zep73
35 minutes ago, Piney said:

People who assume we will evolve psychic powers don't understand evolution. It's caused by stresses which affect our survival as a species.  

Evolution follows the path of least resistance and we would need some serious environmental stresses to have need of such things. 

I would argue that stresses are insignificant for evolution. Instead it is random lucky mutations. When the luck is missing, we see extinction.

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Wes83
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

I used to call it a subjective filter. How our belief shape what we see, what we do, and how we feel. I know it now as a reality tunnel. A reality tunnel is a set of beliefs that shape our personal subjective reality. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_tunnel

A Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever brand of religion that a persons follow (if one at all) will act as just one of their filters for viewing life. This is how two people can see the same event as either being a miracle or luck. It is also how those who use the 'law of attraction' get what they want. Their brains seek out information to confirm their expectations. 

Everything that we believe removes a bit of objective reality and what we believe might not be real. No amount of belief that you can fly will allow you to survive a 30 story swan dive out a window. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. On the other hand believing in dare I say a more optimistic view can influence your behavior around others, same for a pessimistic views, both have their place in order to balance things. No one is fully optimistic or pessimistic (not even I am). 

Everything that you believe, that is a part of your reality tunnel is malleable. Be it a political, social, personal, religious view, it is all changeable. 

If you're rigidly following a specific viewpoint then you are creating a mindset. This mindset may be good to you and a bad thing to others as we do not share the same reality tunnel. If the mindset is productive all around it is deemed as good. The only limitation to it is ones own morality. 

One of the greatest sources of conflict is our own reality tunnels. All of us want to share ours with others and often they conflict. No one can change or influence another persons reality tunnel either. Making discussions and arguments almost pointless, only a person can change their reality tunnel. You can not change a persons mind, only they can change their mind. Quiet often, everything that everyone writes is just an opinion, based on a perspective and personal beliefs. Unless it is backed by facts and evidence. Then again you can't change a persons mind. 

Here's an experiment for Prometheus Rising.

“1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are going to find a quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it. See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

“2. Explain the above experiment by the hypothesis of ‘selective attention’—that is, believe there are lots of lost quarters everywhere and you were bound to find one by continually looking. Go looking for a second quarter.

“3. Explain the experiment by the alternative ‘mystical’ hypothesis that ‘mind controls everything.’ Believe that you made the quarter manifest in this universe. Go looking for a second quarter.

“4. Compare the time it takes to find the second quarter using the first hypothesis (attention) with the time it takes using the second hypothesis (mind-over-matter).

“5. With your own ingenuity, invent similar experiments and each time compare the two theories—‘selective attention’ (coincidence) vs. ‘mind controls everything’ (psychokinesis).

“6. Avoid coming to any strong conclusions prematurely. At the end of a month, re-read this… think it over again, and still postpone coming to any dogmatic conclusion. Believe it possible that you do not know everything yet, and that you might have something still to learn.”

This experiment is designed to help the reader understand the role of thought and belief in structuring the universe. Whatever it is that you think, your mind will immediately set about proving—the existence of God, the sovereignty of the American President, or any number of conspiracy theories. Your mind will find proofs of those things everywhere.

This way you can test it out yourself. 

Peace

Greatest revelation I ever had in my early days of discovering and still to this day, “you can look at it however you want”. I was having an argument about astral stuffs when my best friend said those words. He was referencing my view that it was more than likely dreams 

He didn’t seem to grasp the profound nature of the very words he had just uttered. How liberating? How simple? How deep? 
 

It is enough that I look at it, whatever it is, and take it as it comes. I question more now about the world and myself, not to form a judgement but to learn the nature of a thing.

I had another friend that used to say “it is what it is”, I laugh when I hear that because what it “is” can be so many things.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Wes83 said:

Greatest revelation I ever had in my early days of discovering and still to this day, “you can look at it however you want”. I was having an argument about astral stuffs when my best friend said those words. He was referencing my view that it was more than likely dreams 

He didn’t seem to grasp the profound nature of the very words he had just uttered. How liberating? How simple? How deep? 
 

It is enough that I look at it, whatever it is, and take it as it comes. I question more now about the world and myself, not to form a judgement but to learn the nature of a thing.

I had another friend that used to say “it is what it is”, I laugh when I hear that because what it “is” can be so many things.

I've been slowly embracing a kind of all-in-one agnosticism. Similar to what Robert Anton Wilson was about. Which is an agnosticism about everything. In some cases (just me) an indifferent agnosticism. I still find inner conflicts with this new idea and old ideas.

In regards to your friends. I think it is the level of seriousness that people take things that really matter. If someone thinks they're talking to a rainbow unicorn, that's fine, until they start trying to kill people over it.

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Cookie Monster
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Actually Cookie Monster, thanks for showing up. You will be the example for this. You're constantly talking about this "hedonism for god" view you have. Where basically we are to indulge ourselves in pleasure for it is gods will. That in and of itself is your reality tunnel. It is your framework for viewing this. It is "correct" only to you.

Nope, its me experimenting with practical Kabballah to see if it does anything.

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Cookie Monster

If we focus on Trump for a minute and the holy negative media coverage of him we can see biases at play.

We can see denial of facts and delusional thinking in mass. Half the USA is at it. People do it with everything, they make their minds up what they believe and distort or ignore everything at odds with it.

Now, I predict, in a few moments we will get some examples of this Trump bias at play lol.

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XenoFish

Well, didn't expect this to get nuked so fast. Because as soon as politics is introduced it always goes to hell in a hand-basket.

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