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SKINWALKER19

Executive order against social media

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RoofGardener
On 5/29/2020 at 5:22 PM, Setton said:

And less than 1/40th the area. 

Seems you are the one not taking variables into account.

Yes, but whilst the USA has lots of land, and much of it is sparsely populated, a dispropotionate amount of people are jammed together in large cities. So it IS comparable with the UK when it comes to discussions of infection. (consider: the UK has large wilderness areas as well; consider the Peak District, Wales, much of Scotland, and the barren hinterlands of Wolverhampton). 

22 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

You forgot only the UK and few other Choice countries count their dead u sing the foolish method of deaths per million. Please don't come back and say that is the world standard for the method used to count a nations death toll, because it isn't and we have already discussed that. So yes he is an imbecile, but their is one thing we agree upon he responsible for at least 50% of the more than 100,650 deaths America has suffered.:no::td:

Peace

@Manwon Lender, I find your obsession with this topic baffling. The USA release its morbidity statistics. So does the UK. The comparisons with overall populations are entirely valid. As for your figure of 50%, that is utter rubbish. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Golden Duck
29 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yes, but whilst the USA has lots of land, and much of it is sparsely populated, a dispropotionate amount of people are jammed together in large cities. So it IS comparable with the UK when it comes to discussions of infection. (consider: the UK has large wilderness areas as well; consider the Peak District, Wales, much of Scotland, and the barren hinterlands of Wolverhampton). 

A tendentious argument when wer hat you've described also applies to Australia. 

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DarkHunter
41 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

A tendentious argument when wer hat you've described also applies to Australia. 

Population density of UK 259 people per square kilometer, for America its approximately 37 people per square kilometer, and for Australia its 3.1 people per square kilometer.  But that isnt exactly the best metric to use as all three have high and low population areas.

If you take Australia's 5 largest cities they account for about 64.26% of Australia's total population and their population density are Sydney at 430 people per square kilometer, Melbourne at 500 people per square kilometer, Brisbane at 145 people per square kilometer, Perth at 318 people per square kilometer, and Adelaide at 400 people per square kilometer.

If you take America's top 5 largest cities they account for about 5.8% of the total population and their population densities are New York City at 38,242 people per square kilometer, LA at 2,910 people per square kilometer, Chicago at 4,611 people per square kilometer, Houston at 1,651 people per square kilometer, and Phoenix at 1,141 people per square kilometer.

In the UK the top 5 cities account for about 16% of the population and the population densities are London at 1,510 people per square kilometer, Birmingham at 3,649 people per square kilometer, Liverpool at 4,329 people per square kilometer, Nottingham at 4,073 people per square kilometer, and Sheffield of 1,500 people per square kilometer.

America and the UK are far more comparable then Australia is to either of them

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Golden Duck
21 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Population density of UK 259 people per square kilometer, for America its approximately 37 people per square kilometer, and for Australia its 3.1 people per square kilometer.  But that isnt exactly the best metric to use as all three have high and low population areas.

If you take Australia's 5 largest cities they account for about 64.26% of Australia's total population and their population density are Sydney at 430 people per square kilometer, Melbourne at 500 people per square kilometer, Brisbane at 145 people per square kilometer, Perth at 318 people per square kilometer, and Adelaide at 400 people per square kilometer.

If you take America's top 5 largest cities they account for about 5.8% of the total population and their population densities are New York City at 38,242 people per square kilometer, LA at 2,910 people per square kilometer, Chicago at 4,611 people per square kilometer, Houston at 1,651 people per square kilometer, and Phoenix at 1,141 people per square kilometer.

In the UK the top 5 cities account for about 16% of the population and the population densities are London at 1,510 people per square kilometer, Birmingham at 3,649 people per square kilometer, Liverpool at 4,329 people per square kilometer, Nottingham at 4,073 people per square kilometer, and Sheffield of 1,500 people per square kilometer.

America and the UK are far more comparable then Australia is to either of them

He didn't go in to that detail, did he?  He ignored the fact that both countries have their poulations crammed in cities.

He used the generalised denisity when it suited; and, the localised when it suited.  That's tendentious. 

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Tatetopa
On 5/29/2020 at 3:51 AM, Cookie Monster said:

I agree with Trumps move.

Social media (and all media) should be made to operate a fair playing field so that US Democracy functions properly.

Are you in favor of Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and FOX news being required to offer equal time to liberal views on their platforms?

FOX news actually tries to give a more balanced view and the President does not like that either, he thinks they are not trying hard enough to get him re-elected.

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Tatetopa
13 hours ago, Gromdor said:

To be fair, wasn't he sick, incapacitated and near death from corona for a few weeks during the epidemic?

Yes totally true. So perhaps if Boris had not been knocked out of the race, can we assume he would have performed better?

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The Truman show
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yes, but whilst the USA has lots of land, and much of it is sparsely populated, a dispropotionate amount of people are jammed together in large cities. So it IS comparable with the UK when it comes to discussions of infection. (consider: the UK has large wilderness areas as well; consider the Peak District, Wales, much of Scotland, and the barren hinterlands of Wolverhampton). 

@Manwon Lender, I find your obsession with this topic baffling. The USA release its morbidity statistics. So does the UK. The comparisons with overall populations are entirely valid. As for your figure of 50%, that is utter rubbish. 

The UK and U.S. government’s waited longer before shutting down their economy’s than other country’s. Even when they did Boris and Trump did so more slowly, hence the high death tolls. 
 

Your position arguing population density is untenable. Places like Hong Kong and Singapore faredd much better than the UK and they have higher density rates. The UK and the U.S. have stronger economy’s than most and more available health resources which should have put them miles ahead of most countries. 
 

Another point is border control. UK is an Island nation and the U.S. dominates the North American continent. Both easily locked down compared to other country’s. but they were not.

But as always when the Abbott and Costello show (Trump and Boris) gets to together things go pear shape real fast. I found it comical with slightly racial superior undertones when Trump eventually ordered closed boarders to most countries BUT left the UK off the list till the very end. Absolutely astonishing that such a short sighted ill informed action could be deemed proper course of action by the worlds two biggest Baffoons.

Sad truth is both the UK and the U.S. were poorly lead. Boris and Trump did not take the warnings seriously. 

Edited by Captain Risky
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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yes, but whilst the USA has lots of land, and much of it is sparsely populated, a dispropotionate amount of people are jammed together in large cities. So it IS comparable with the UK when it comes to discussions of infection. (consider: the UK has large wilderness areas as well; consider the Peak District, Wales, much of Scotland, and the barren hinterlands of Wolverhampton). 

@Manwon Lender, I find your obsession with this topic baffling. The USA release its morbidity statistics. So does the UK. The comparisons with overall populations are entirely valid. As for your figure of 50%, that is utter rubbish. 

I also find your obsession with the topic baffling, you are making and issue of something that doesn't fit with the methods used by the Worlds Governments. I understand that's is how they do it in the U.K., but that Isn't how they are counting Deaths in the USA. The CDC doesn't use that method, the WHO doesn't use that method, so count the death toll anyway you want. But don't claim like you have your past comments that this is how it's being done, because that's just your opinion, which is fine, but acting like this is the chosen method being used by Nations around the World.:yes:

I do understand your motivation, it doesn't give a true picture of the numbers of Deaths suffered by an particular Nation. It kinda puts everything in a different light and for Nations that want to make their situation look better than it actually is that's a good way to do it, that's why the U.K. uses the Method. If Trump understood this in the Manner Boris Johnson does, he would push that method of accountability, But it appears that Boris is smarter then Trump, which I suspected all the time, this only gives me more proof of that fact.:D

Peace Roofy:P

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The Truman show
12 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes totally true. So perhaps if Boris had not been knocked out of the race, can we assume he would have performed better?

Boris getting coronavirus saved lives. If God was English Boris would have been the first to get it and 38,000 people would still be alive in the UK.  

Edited by Captain Risky
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Manwon Lender
6 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

The UK and U.S. government’s waited longer before shutting down their economy’s than other country’s. Even when they did Boris and Trump did so more slowly, hence the high death tolls. 
 

Your position arguing population density is untenable. Places like Hong Kong and Singapore faredd much better than the UK and they have higher density rates. The UK and the U.S. have stronger economy’s than most and more available health resources which should have put them miles ahead of most countries. 
 

Another point is border control. UK is an Island nation and the U.S. dominates the North American continent. Both easily locked down compared to other country’s. but they were not.

But as always when the Abbott and Costello (Trump and Boris) gets to together things go pear shape real fast. I found it comical with slightly racial superior undertones when Trump eventually ordered closed boarders to most countries BUT left the UK off the list till the very end. Absolutely astonishing that such a short sighted ill informed action could be deemed proper course of action by the worlds two biggest Baffoons.

Sad truth is both the UK and the U.S. were poorly lead. Boris and Trump did not take the warnings seriously. 

Captain I totally agree with you on all points above, but by counting death according to deaths per million and I don't feel is untenable at all, it isn't the chosen method being used around the World. My conversation with Roofgardner is simple, the method of counting deaths based upon population density ISN'T  being used by the major Health Organizations like the CDC, WHO, and other National Health Organizations from other Nations. By using the population density method, it can take a countries death toll like the USA, and by smoke and mirrors place the countries situation in a less terrible light. If you use that method the US comes out like the 8th or 9th worst death toll in World. That makes things look like WoW the US did a Pretty good at handling the Pandemic, which is a nonsense, and that's the idea that Roofgarner is trying to propagate, because of his support of the Trump supports on the forum and the Trump Administration in general.

Peace Captain

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Manwon Lender
5 hours ago, Gromdor said:

So I was reading up a bit on Section 230.  It seems quite a few people have been (and still are upset) with it for various reasons (Dems included) and are wanting it opened up and re-evaluated.  Take memes for example.  There have been multiple complaints about people taking copyrighted or proprietary pictures and making them into memes.  Trump might have opened up a can of worms that needed opening.  The legalized blatant lying is another aspect that needs addressed and I wonder in which direction the resolution to it will fall in regards to freedom of speech.

Trump loves opening up cans of worms, it makes him feel right at home, especially since Snakes love to eat worms.:)

Peace

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Manwon Lender
17 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I think you get a medal for winning the race, not coming in next to last.  Is Boris is just as incompetent?   I thought he was a bit abrasive but smart.

Him and Trump are brothers with different Fathers, while it appears he may be a little smarter. I heard his IQ is like 155, while we all know Trumps is only according to him without ever taking an IQ test is 151. 

Peace 

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The Truman show
41 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Captain I totally agree with you on all points above, but by counting death according to deaths per million and I don't feel is untenable at all, it isn't the chosen method being used around the World. My conversation with Roofgardner is simple, the method of counting deaths based upon population density ISN'T  being used by the major Health Organizations like the CDC, WHO, and other National Health Organizations from other Nations. By using the population density method, it can take a countries death toll like the USA, and by smoke and mirrors place the countries situation in a less terrible light. If you use that method the US comes out like the 8th or 9th worst death toll in World. That makes things look like WoW the US did a Pretty good at handling the Pandemic, which is a nonsense, and that's the idea that Roofgarner is trying to propagate, because of his support of the Trump supports on the forum and the Trump Administration in general.

Peace Captain

I think you raise a very valid point about smudging death tolls figures to favour politicians. Yes another real problem. Can’t say I’m surprised with how Trump has and continues to spin this pandemic as some kind of positive for his presidency. And some blame here should portioned out to Biden for not picking up on this and arguing rationally for real figures instead of staying in the shadows while Trump flicks the WHO and it’s processes away because they threaten showing up his inept stupidity.

Edited by Captain Risky
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Manwon Lender
11 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I think you raise a very valid point about smudging death tolls figures to favour politicians. Yes another real problem. Can’t say I’m surprised with how Trump has and continues to spin this pandemic as some kind of positive for his presidency. And some blame here should portioned out to Biden here for not picking up on this and arguing rationally for real figures and staying in the shadows while Trump flicks the WHO and it’s processes away because they threaten showing up his inept stupidity.

I agree with Captain, but from what I have seen Biden isn't close to one of the brightest lights in the US political Arena. He has average intelligents at best, but it does seem strange that some of the Interns working on his campaign haven't suggested it to him. Back to the issue of the WHO, it is a travesty how they are being treated by the Trump Administration, and long term this is just another thing that will bite him in the A.S.S come November. I also think it will have the opposite effect he suspects it will have, because other countries are not going to follow his lead, and if anything else it just pushed the WHO that much closer to actually being in Chinas arms. China have already offered the WHO billions of Dollars in support that far out weighs what America was giving them in the first place. So what Trump has done to divert attention away for his own failed policies during the Pandemic, hasn't really hurt them at all, it has however hurt the United States and the consequences of Trumps actions will be far reaching.

Peace Captain

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The Truman show
16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree with Captain, but from what I have seen Biden isn't close to one of the brightest lights in the US political Arena. He has average intelligents at best, but it does seem strange that some of the Interns working on his campaign haven't suggested it to him. Back to the issue of the WHO, it is a travesty how they are being treated by the Trump Administration, and long term this is just another thing that will bite him in the A.S.S come November. I also think it will have the opposite effect he suspects it will have, because other countries are not going to follow his lead, and if anything else it just pushed the WHO that much closer to actually being in Chinas arms. China have already offered the WHO billions of Dollars in support that far out weighs what America was giving them in the first place. So what Trump has done to divert attention away for his own failed policies during the Pandemic, hasn't really hurt them at all, it has however hurt the United States and the consequences of Trumps actions will be far reaching.

Peace Captain

Yeah I think you’re right about Biden. I wonder whether the democrats choose the best candidate. Surely America can field better candidates than the two that will be contesting the presidency. TBH I’m hoping Biden chooses a strong running mate to shoulder the burden of cleaning up Trumps mess and start to lead the world from the front instead of Trump chaotic abrasive style. 

Edited by Captain Risky
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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 5/29/2020 at 11:30 PM, RoofGardener said:

You certainly have NOT taken into account the variables. Australia is a sparsely populated country.   :D

Our most densely populated city has a grand total of 11 cases. That’s a city of roughly 5 million people. 

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RoofGardener
9 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I also find your obsession with the topic baffling, you are making and issue of something that doesn't fit with the methods used by the Worlds Governments. I understand that's is how they do it in the U.K., but that Isn't how they are counting Deaths in the USA. The CDC doesn't use that method, the WHO doesn't use that method, so count the death toll anyway you want. But don't claim like you have your past comments that this is how it's being done, because that's just your opinion, which is fine, but acting like this is the chosen method being used by Nations around the World.:yes:

I do understand your motivation, it doesn't give a true picture of the numbers of Deaths suffered by an particular Nation. It kinda puts everything in a different light and for Nations that want to make their situation look better than it actually is that's a good way to do it, that's why the U.K. uses the Method. If Trump understood this in the Manner Boris Johnson does, he would push that method of accountability, But it appears that Boris is smarter then Trump, which I suspected all the time, this only gives me more proof of that fact.:D

Peace Roofy:P

AHA... I see a way through this morass. 

@Manwon Lender .. what .. IN YOUR OPINION .. is the total mortality for the UK due to Covid-19 ? 

Same question for the USA. 

Pick a (recent-ish) date of your choice. 

I shall await your response, and then do the "per million" calculation based on YOUR figures :) 

Damn why didn't I think of this before ? 

Edited by RoofGardener

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RoofGardener
9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

The UK and U.S. government’s waited longer before shutting down their economy’s than other country’s. Even when they did Boris and Trump did so more slowly, hence the high death tolls. 
 

Your position arguing population density is untenable. Places like Hong Kong and Singapore faredd much better than the UK and they have higher density rates. The UK and the U.S. have stronger economy’s than most and more available health resources which should have put them miles ahead of most countries. 
 

Another point is border control. UK is an Island nation and the U.S. dominates the North American continent. Both easily locked down compared to other country’s. but they were not.

 

Well, when President Trump tried to lock down (by banning flights), he was accused of over-reach and - inevitably - racism. Mind you, the left accuse him of racism for getting out of bed. Your point about Hong Kong and Singapore is well taken. But what about Belgium and France ? 

7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Our most densely populated city has a grand total of 11 cases. That’s a city of roughly 5 million people. 

Oh come ON @Sir Wearer of Hats. Clearly your fellow countrymen aren't even TRYING. I mean.... 11 cases (nor deaths.. but cases) in a city of 11 Million people ? Thats a FEEBLE effort ! :P

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The Truman show
15 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, when President Trump tried to lock down (by banning flights), he was accused of over-reach and - inevitably - racism. Mind you, the left accuse him of racism for getting out of bed. Your point about Hong Kong and Singapore is well taken. But what about Belgium and France ? 

Mmmm... Trump tried to lock down early? Well flick and link and let’s see. What about France and Belgium?

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Manwon Lender
5 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Mmmm... Trump tried to lock down early? Well flick and link and let’s see. What about France and Belgium?

This guy is a Trump apologist, he always has an ulterior motive for any question he asks, and he doesn't like to supply supporting documentation for his comments. :wacko:

Peace Captain and I know your will end up beating your head against a wall trying to carry on a conversation with him, however he isn't a bad guy except for his man crush on Trump!!!!!!!!:w00t:;)

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The Truman show
3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

This guy is a Trump apologist, he always has an ulterior motive for any question he asks, and he doesn't like to supply supporting documentation for his comments. :wacko:

Peace Captain and I know your will end up beating your head against a wall trying to carry on a conversation with him, however he isn't a bad guy except for his man crush on Trump!!!!!!!!:w00t:;)

Apart from Roof sitting on the opposite side of me politically, he’s a cool guy. I enjoy the banter so no head banging...lol 

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Manwon Lender
Just now, Captain Risky said:

Apart from Roof sitting on the opposite side of me politically, he’s a cool guy. I enjoy the banter so no head banging...lol 

Captain like I said he is not a bad guy, but having a man crush on trump that is frightening as hell!!:w00t: I may not be able to sleep tonight for even thinking of such a thing!!!!!!!:wacko::wacko::w00t:

 Peace Brother

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RoofGardener
7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Captain like I said he is not a bad guy, but having a man crush on trump that is frightening as hell!!:w00t: I may not be able to sleep tonight for even thinking of such a thing!!!!!!!:wacko::wacko::w00t:

 Peace Brother

And yet, you made no attempt to refute my point ?  ( that Liberals and The Left accused President Trump of Racism when the tried to implement an early ban on air travel from China ? )

Edited by RoofGardener

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Gromdor
5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And yet, you made no attempt to refute my point ?  ( that Liberals and The Left accused President Trump of Racism when the tried to implement an early ban on air travel from China ? )

And middle east countries....   I recall posting about it laughingly.   He used it as an excuse to do bans on countries that furthered his personal bias rather than actually control the Coronavirus.  My state got infected by American tourists and not by China.

And to be effective the ban would have to include all people/travel.  The whole exceptions for US citizens and the testing with a heat gun for fever thing was laughable.  They still do that here in Iowa at some of the manufacturing plants before allowing entrance.  I was 89 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

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Setton
26 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And yet, you made no attempt to refute my point ?  ( that Liberals and The Left accused President Trump of Racism when the tried to implement an early ban on air travel from China ? )

Ah, ah, naughty naughty.

You know perfectly well that it wasn't a ban on flights from China, it was a ban on Chinese nationals.

Apparently under some bizarre apprehension that Americans coming back from China couldn't have the virus.

Or he's just stupid.

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