Planet 9

[Damien99]

So they had been talk that planet 9 is not a planet but may be a black hole. If it is a black hole at 30-50au from the sun would that not pose a threat to the kupier belt or the planets in our solar system?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/phys.org/news/2020-05-theorized-planet-primordial-black-hole.amp

Edited May 31, 2020 by Damien99

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Oh good, more paranoia.

Firstly, most recent evidence suggests that there is probably no Planet 9 at all. Even the article you have quoted says this:

Quote

Maybe we haven't found Planet Nine because it doesn't exist. Evidence for the planet is not very strong.

Secondly, there is no evidence that, if Planet 9 does exist, that it is a black hole, this is just highly speculative based around the fact that something which probably doesn't exist has, not surprisingly, not been found.

Thirdly, the gravitational influence of ANY body is dependent on it's mass, black holes are no different. A planetary mass black hole would exert no more influence over the Kuiper Belt than a planet of the same mass.

Finally, why do you think that an object that, if it exists, has been there for billions of years should suddenly become a threat now, just because you have done a google search?

For your own well being you need to stop googling things you don't understand and that make you think the world is in danger. You need to learn basic science so that you can understand these things without having to start thread after thread asking to have stuff explained to you and without the unnecessary fear you generate in yourself.

[Damien99]

I was just asking a question that’s all I have limited knowledge on BH and I know that gravitational disturbances were found in that area.

also would it not be possible that it was not always there and moved there over the past Billions if years? Example roaming black hole?

Edited May 31, 2020 by Damien99

[+Desertrat56]

3 hours ago, Damien99 said:

I was just asking a question that’s all I have limited knowledge on BH and I know that gravitational disturbances were found in that area.

also would it not be possible that it was not always there and moved there over the past Billions if years? Example roaming black hole?

The answer, like @Waspie_Dwarf said is that there is no black hole, so if you want a yes or no answer, I would say No to your question of threat.  If there were a black hole threatening the solar system we would know about it with no question.  You are taking random imaginary scenarios and trying to make them real.  There must be a diagnosis for that.  I know some one else who does that and it becomes quite annoying and difficult to be around her.  I suspect you are on that same path and you need to start finding less end-times scenarios to entertain yourself with as this is not healthy. 

[Damien99]

3 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

The answer, like @Waspie_Dwarf said is that there is no black hole, so if you want a yes or no answer, I would say No to your question of threat.  If there were a black hole threatening the solar system we would know about it with no question.  You are taking random imaginary scenarios and trying to make them real.  There must be a diagnosis for that.  I know some one else who does that and it becomes quite annoying and difficult to be around her.  I suspect you are on that same path and you need to start finding less end-times scenarios to entertain yourself with as this is not healthy. 

How would we know?

[Piney]

21 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

How would we know?

It would create gravitational waves as it sucked crap into itself. 

[ChrLzs]

Join

An

Astronomy

Club (and/or Forum)

 

Learn about the wonders of the Universe and see just how sophisticated and knowledgeable backyard astronomers are, rather than do what you are doing, which seems to be roaming around the tinfoil gutters..

May I ask, Damien, if you would please go through exactly where you got your 'information' from, and step by step, how you came across it?  And where are you, so we can recommend a decent astronomy forum or club.  Here in Oz, I like IceInSpace...

[Damien99]

9 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Join

An

Astronomy

Club (and/or Forum)

 

Learn about the wonders of the Universe and see just how sophisticated and knowledgeable backyard astronomers are, rather than do what you are doing, which seems to be roaming around the tinfoil gutters..

May I ask, Damien, if you would please go through exactly where you got your 'information' from, and step by step, how you came across it?  And where are you, so we can recommend a decent astronomy forum or club.  Here in Oz, I like IceInSpace...

I posted the article abive

[ChrLzs]

Thanks for not actually reading my post, and not answering the questions or engaging in a discussion.

Do you understand what this forum is for?

[Damien99]

13 minutes ago, Piney said:

It would create gravitational waves as it sucked crap into itself. 

This confuses me if that’s the case why would the scientists state is may be one

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

This confuses me if that’s the case why would the scientists state is may be one

Perturbed objects and full blown gravitational waves are two different animals. 

[Damien99]

29 minutes ago, Piney said:

Perturbed objects and full blown gravitational waves are two different animals. 

Not sure what that means would a black hole not also cause perturbed instead of gravitational waves. 

[ChrLzs]

26 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

This confuses me if that’s the case why would the scientists state is may be one

Perhaps you need to RE-read these lines from the article that *you* posted:

Quote

Maybe we haven't found Planet Nine because it doesn't exist. Evidence for the planet is not very strong.
...
There is, however a much more radical idea.  ... What if it is a primordial black hole?
...
All of this is pretty wild speculation. If there is a planet lurking at the edge of our solar system, it almost certainly is not a black hole
...
sometimes in science, you need to rule out the wild ideas before you can find the right one.

Please take note of those bolded parts, before you panic.  Also, in your OP, you said this:

9 hours ago, Damien99 said:

If it is a black hole at 30-50au ...

Can you point out exactly where in the article it says that, as I'm not seeing it..?

If it's not in that article, can you answer my earlier question properly - where are you getting your 'information' from?

[Damien99]

16 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Perhaps you need to RE-read these lines from the article that *you* posted:

Please take note of those bolded parts, before you panic.  Also, in your OP, you said this:

Can you point out exactly where in the article it says that, as I'm not seeing it..?

If it's not in that article, can you answer my earlier question properly - where are you getting your 'information' from?

Because it was determined that planet 9 would be about 30-50 au so if it’s a black hole it would be in the same area. Also still not sure why we can be sure it’s not a black hole that close 

there is a few paper on this 

https://arxiv.org/abs/1909.11090

https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.12280

Edited May 31, 2020 by Damien99

[Piney]

6 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

Not sure what that means would a black hole not also cause perturbed instead of gravitational waves. 

Gravitational waves and objects being perturbed by gravity are 2 different things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave

[ChrLzs]

6 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

Because it was determined that planet 9 would be about 30-50 au so if it’s a black hole it would be in the same area. Also still not sure why we can be sure it’s not a black hole that close 

No.  And that's why I asked you to tell us where you are getting your information from.

From the Wiki and multiple other sources, a hypothetical planet 9 would be some hundreds, eg at least 3-400 au's from the Sun.

Pluto is the one that is between 30-50 au, so either you are confused, or getting your info from somewhere else.  Which?

[Trelane]

Hmm, a rogue black hole you say? Well that would explain the disappearance of the U.S.S. Cygnus.

[ChrLzs]

BTW, I see Damien has now revised his post to add two links to articles..

19 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

there is a few paper on this 

https://arxiv.org/abs/1909.11090

https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.12280

Do those articles refer to your 30-50au claim, Damien?  If so, please CITE the parts of the articles - they are quite lengthy and complex and I have no intention of wading through them - it seems you are deliberately making this difficult....

 

[Damien99]

7 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

BTW, I see Damien has now revised his post to add two links to articles..

Do those articles refer to your 30-50au claim, Damien?  If so, please CITE the parts of the articles - they are quite lengthy and complex and I have no intention of wading through them - it seems you are deliberately making this difficult....

 

No these are papers about why it is thought to be a black hole

also if it would be a black hole as they claim at that close distance then what effects would it have on our solar system. Would it not slow grow and take part of the system and planets with it 

[Waspie_Dwarf]

34 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

Because it was determined that planet 9 would be about 30-50 au so if it’s a black hole it would be in the same area. Also still not sure why we can be sure it’s not a black hole that close

Where did you get those figures from? They are nonsense.

30 au is roughly the distance to the orbit of Neptune. It's because of nonsense like this that Chrlzs and I keep recommended that you do something to learn basic astronomy.

You ask questions about subjects you don't understand. The problem is that you have such limited knowledge that you don't understand the answers. You are filling in the gaps in your knowledge with wild guesses and pure fantasy.

If Planet 9 exists (and the case for it is diminishing rapidly, see this article) then it's orbit is expected to be at least ten times greater than your claim:

Quote

Planet Nine is hypothesized to follow an elliptical orbit around the Sun with an eccentricity of 0.2 to 0.5. The planet's semi-major axis is estimated to be 400 AU to 800 AU,^[A] roughly 13 to 26 times the distance from Neptune to the Sun. It would take the planet between 10,000 and 20,000 years to make one full orbit around the Sun.

Source: wikipedia

 

Quote

Thanks to cutting-edge simulations, the researchers expect Planet Nine (sometimes referred to as Planet X), to be in a somewhat eccentric orbit that takes it about 400 AU from the Sun. But, Sheppard says, “the planet could be up to some 1,500 AU away in the more massive planet models.”

Source: Astronomy.com

Quote

The predicted orbit is about 20 times farther from our Sun on average than Neptune (which orbits the Sun at an average distance of 2.8 billion miles).

Source: NASA

That's just three of the articles I found, in less than a minute on google, giving an approximate distance to the hypothetical orbit of planet 9.

So, to paraphrase ChrLzs, where are you getting your information from.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

5 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

No these are papers about why it is thought to be a black hole

also if it would be a black hole as they claim at that close distance then what effects would it have on our solar system. Would it not slow grow and take part of the system and planets with it 

Go and re-read my my third and fourth point in my first reply to you. Why do you always ask questions and then ignore the answers?

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

10 hours ago, Damien99 said:

So they had been talk that planet 9 is not a planet but may be a black hole. If it is a black hole at 30-50au from the sun would that not pose a threat to the kupier belt or the planets in our solar system?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/phys.org/news/2020-05-theorized-planet-primordial-black-hole.amp

Black holes have masses larger than the Sun. Any mass like that at the distance you proposes will result in massive changes in the orbits of the planets. Since no such changes have been observed we can elliminate the possibility of a black hole this close to us. Very small black holes may exist, but they would have no detectable influence and a very short lifetime.

No need to be alarmed..... until the next time you misunderstand science and freaks out over something else. 

[ChrLzs]

Damien, it probably sounds as if we are all being a bit harsh, and that's sorta true...  We don't want you to stop enquiring and learning, so I'd encourage you to stick with it.  But you need to change something in your approach, and that is ...

Start asking questions and STOP telling us what you 'know'.

Here was your first post, with my direct responses:

Quote

 

So they had been talk...

Do NOT refer to unknown sources, like 'they'.  Your claims are way beyond what that article included, so you need to cite WHO originated all of the claims, ie at what website or forum..  If they were solely your ideas, then say so and ASK, don't tell us.

Quote

that planet 9 is not a planet but may be a black hole.

The article does examine that possibility, but pretty much dismisses it.  Why didn't you mention that?

Quote

If it is a black hole at 30-50au from the sun would that not pose a threat to the kupier belt or the planets in our solar system?

At no point does that article say that it could be at 30-50au.  At no point does ANY article say that, because as we've stated, a black hole at 30-50au would be tearing the solar system apart, and as it approached (from even hundreds of au away), we would have been seeing huge effects.

So, here's what your first post SHOULD have looked like:

Quote

I've just read this article:
{link}
where they looked at whether the hypothetical 'planet 9' may be a black hole.  They pretty much dismissed that possibility.  But I'm worried - could a primordial black hole get closer to the solar system and cause a threat?  How close could it get before we would see any effects?

Can you see how the tone is completely different?  Note that:
1. I've been honest about the article's content
2. I haven't made up any 'facts'.
3. I've been honest about my concerns.
4. I've asked questions. 

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Trelane said:

Hmm, a rogue black hole you say? Well that would explain the disappearance of the U.S.S. Cygnus.

 

[Damien99]

20 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Damien, it probably sounds as if we are all being a bit harsh, and that's sorta true...  We don't want you to stop enquiring and learning, so I'd encourage you to stick with it.  But you need to change something in your approach, and that is ...

Start asking questions and STOP telling us what you 'know'.

Here was your first post, with my direct responses:

Do NOT refer to unknown sources, like 'they'.  Your claims are way beyond what that article included, so you need to cite WHO originated all of the claims, ie at what website or forum..  If they were solely your ideas, then say so and ASK, don't tell us.

The article does examine that possibility, but pretty much dismisses it.  Why didn't you mention that?

At no point does that article say that it could be at 30-50au.  At no point does ANY article say that, because as we've stated, a black hole at 30-50au would be tearing the solar system apart, and as it approached (from even hundreds of au away), we would have been seeing huge effects.

So, here's what your first post SHOULD have looked like:

Can you see how the tone is completely different?  Note that:
1. I've been honest about the article's content
2. I haven't made up any 'facts'.
3. I've been honest about my concerns.
4. I've asked questions. 

Thank you I will try to follow this