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Hugh Mungus

Agent provocateurs in riots?

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Hugh Mungus

Video clips have sparked multiple conspiracy theories in regards to who was causing damage during the riots in Minneapolis and other cities across the US.

In particular "umbrella man" who calmly smashes windows then slinks away when confronted has caught the attention of activists and others who are speculating about his motives. He doesn't appear to be your typical protester/rioter.

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Unsettling footage of the "creepy white dude" methodically breaking the glass facade of a Minneapolis auto store with a hammer as the riots kicked off last Tuesday surfaced online after he was filmed by suspicious protesters.

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Rumors soon began to swirl that the man was actually a police officer from a neighboring community sent in as an “agent provocateur,” or even a member of the white supremacist movement looking to spark widespread violence.

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Minneapolis officials suggest that an increasing number of people rioting—perhaps as many as 80%—are coming from outside the city in what Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz said was “an organized attempt to destabilize civil society.”

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Does anyone have any thoughts on who could be behind any agent provocateurs and why? I mean, Antifa are basically an anarchist organization who would take advantage of situations like this, but this guy seems to be more professional than any Antifa members i have seen.  

 

 

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Piney
15 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on who could be behind any agent provocateurs and why? I mean, Antifa are basically an anarchist organization who would take advantage of situations like this, but this guy seems to be more professional than any Antifa members i have seen.  

 

Antifa isn't anarchist. It's anti-fascist and and anti-theocracy. They are also active in the protests. 

This is a pretty good answer right here....

Some conservative tw*t fanning the flames.

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Rumors soon began to swirl that the man was actually a police officer from a neighboring community sent in as an “agent provocateur,” or even a member of the white supremacist movement looking to spark widespread violence.

 

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Has anyone wondered about insurance claims?

Is it possible that some people may use the protests to make false claims on damage? After all a lot of small businesses are struggling because of Covid-19

BINGO!!!!!  :nw:

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Hugh Mungus
1 hour ago, Kismit said:

Has anyone wondered about insurance claims?

Is it possible that some people may use the protests to make false claims on damage? After all a lot of small businesses are struggling because of Covid-19

I think it would become clear if an employer damaged their own buildings to make claims. Surely with the publicity of this incident anyone who worked in the business would be able to identify the owner damaging their own property.

It is a possibility, but i don't think it would be a successful strategy. Similarly, i doubt it was rival businesses doing the damage either.

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Kismit
7 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

I think it would become clear if an employer damaged their own buildings to make claims. Surely with the publicity of this incident anyone who worked in the business would be able to identify the owner damaging their own property.

It is a possibility, but i don't think it would be a successful strategy. Similarly, i doubt it was rival businesses doing the damage either.

I am fairly sure that successful or not, there will be struggling business owners out there hoping for payouts. 

I think that there are probably several different people out there who have deliberately caused mayhem. 

People for insurance

People for provocation.

People for malice

People for a news story even.

 

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Hugh Mungus
1 hour ago, Piney said:

Antifa isn't anarchist. It's anti-fascist and and anti-theocracy. They are also active in the protests. 

This is a pretty good answer right here....

Some conservative tw*t fanning the flames.

 

From what i understand, Antifa are using violence for political purposes. This is the very definition of a terrorist organisation. Its also what fascists do

 

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, Kismit said:

I am fairly sure that successful or not, there will be struggling business owners out there hoping for payouts. 

I think that there are probably several different people out there who have deliberately caused mayhem. 

People for insurance

People for provocation.

People for malice

People for a news story even.

 

The insurance company pays the tradies for repairs.  You'd get a payout for loss of stock.  But, loss adjusters are going to look at that with a fine tooth comb.

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Piney
18 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

The insurance company pays the tradies for repairs.  You'd get a payout for loss of stock.  But, loss adjusters are going to look at that with a fine tooth comb.

After I was run over and spending a few months in a wheelchair a adjuster was watching me dickin about with my horses through a glass. He wanted to be sure I couldn't walk even though the hospital had to rebuild my entire leg. :lol:

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Golden Duck
1 minute ago, Piney said:

After I was run over and spending a few months in a wheelchair a adjuster was watching me dickin about with my horses through a glass. He wanted to be sure I couldn't walk even though the hospital had to rebuild my entire leg. :lol:

Did you go to an insurer's xray clinic?  You'd think there'd be better ways to spend premiums.

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Piney
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Did you go to an insurer's xray clinic?  You'd think there'd be better ways to spend premiums.

The damn investigating agent interviewed me bedside when I was still recovering in the hospital. :lol:

Edited by Piney
Where's the red paint?
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Kismit
40 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

The insurance company pays the tradies for repairs.  You'd get a payout for loss of stock.  But, loss adjusters are going to look at that with a fine tooth comb.

We have something called business interruption insurance. In case for some reason you can not trade. Unfortunately, it does not cover virus out breaks. We checked. If however the building were to be damaged in some way, earthquake , fire, vandalism, we would get reimbursed the cost of running which could include payments to ourselves.

A little side note here. A major trading group over here has a shop in a mall near by, over the lockdown they got an engineers report claiming earthquake damage to their store, making it impossible for them to open. The rest of the mall is fine, there have been no earthquakes, I don't want to cast dispersions but hey... I'm just sayin.

 

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Golden Duck
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Kismit said:

We have something called business interruption insurance. In case for some reason you can not trade. Unfortunately, it does not cover virus out breaks. We checked. If however the building were to be damaged in some way, earthquake , fire, vandalism, we would get reimbursed the cost of running which could include payments to ourselves.

A little side note here. A major trading group over here has a shop in a mall near by, over the lockdown they got an engineers report claiming earthquake damage to their store, making it impossible for them to open. The rest of the mall is fine, there have been no earthquakes, I don't want to cast dispersions but hey... I'm just sayin.

Flood seems to be the one that catches property owners out.  Does the policy mention terrorism?  That always raises eyebrows in car insurance policies; and, sends me into a Homer Simpson moment imagining what happens in superhero movies...

Edited by Golden Duck
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Kismit
25 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Flood seems to be the one that catches property owners out.  Does the policy mention terrorism?  That always raises eyebrows in car insurance policies; and, sends me into a Homer Simpson moment imagining what happens in superhero movies...

I haven't looked for acts of terrorism. But I do know it covers vandalism.

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and then
3 hours ago, Piney said:

I'd call them terrorists.

Which is your right.  IIRC, none of them broke a single law in their actions.  I get that you have no respect for Americans who have the audacity to own and display weapons in public because they have no military training.  I don't agree with it but I have no problem with the opinion being stated.

If we want to make a comparison of how those Americans behaved during a protest against government actions they saw as unconstitutional, with the actions we are seeing in Democrat controlled cities across this nation, I think the problem crowd is easily identifiable.  I'd add that the majority of the men and women who are serving in the military tend to be law and order types and would naturally support like minded citizens, whether those citizens were trained or not.  

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and then
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I haven't looked for acts of terrorism. But I do know it covers vandalism.

Most of the insurors over here tend to write protections for themselves against the kind of willful destruction we are seeing in these cities.  Add to that the very real case the companies could make that little or no effort was made to stop the source of the destruction and my guess is they'll not pay and even if they lost an appeal it would take years for the payout to come.  Insurance companies in America do NOT LOSE MONEY.  

That's not to say that these cities won't be eventually made whole from taxpayers in the rest of the states.  That's another aspect of the choices of these mayors and governors that is despicable.  If they understand that their actions will have no consequences at the ballot box and that their party members in DC will cover their losses, why NOT allow lawlessness?

Edited by and then
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spartan max2
8 hours ago, Piney said:

You mean like White Nationalists who aren't listed as terrorists? 

Then you have the White gun Tw@ts who carry their "cuddle toys" to protest the lockdown and wouldn't know how to act in a real combat situation.

I'd call them terrorists. 

Yet those anti-lock protester "****s" caused no one and no thing to get hurt. 

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and then
3 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

From what i understand, Antifa are using violence for political purposes. This is the very definition of a terrorist organisation. Its also what fascists do

 

It has been clear from the first actions of the Antifa types that they are the modern version of Brown Shirts.  They are about intimidation but because they are cowards, they only try that action in states where they know they won't be substantially troubled by government.  In fact, they stay in Blue states because they know that anyone who fights them will be arrested and stand a chance of losing their liberty.  Now that they've become emboldened to the point where they actually believe they are men and women instead of hateful children, they are going to learn about law and about how mistaken they've been about the power they think they possess.  

That declaration of the group as a terror organization opens those who are stoking this chaos to lengthy stays in prison.  The parents that encouraged their delusions of superiority are going to be beggared with legal costs and that is a positive thing, IMO.

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Golden Duck
24 minutes ago, and then said:

Most of the insurors over here tend to write protections for themselves against the kind of willful destruction we are seeing in these cities.  Add to that the very real case the companies could make that little or no effort was made to stop the source of the destruction and my guess is they'll not pay and even if they lost an appeal it would take years for the payout to come.  Insurance companies in America do NOT LOSE MONEY.  

That's not to say that these cities won't be eventually made whole from taxpayers in the rest of the states.  That's another aspect of the choices of these mayors and governors that is despicable.  If they understand that their actions will have no consequences at the ballot box and that their party members in DC will cover their losses, why NOT allow lawlessness?

A quick search shows that riot and civil commotion is a pretty common exclusion.

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Imaginarynumber1
33 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Yet those anti-lock protester "****s" caused no one and no thing to get hurt. 

We're in the same city. Have you been downtown at all the last 4 days? I have. EVERY time since Friday night on it has been the police that have instigated and escalated. 

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the13bats
6 hours ago, Piney said:

You mean like White Nationalists who aren't listed as terrorists? 

Then you have the White gun Tw@ts who carry their "cuddle toys" to protest the lockdown and wouldn't know how to act in a real combat situation.

I'd call them terrorists. 

You know it was odd to me those cats were so gungho to show off their guns and mite when protesting the lock down i would have bet anyone they would have been out protecting their cities but nope, not a hide nor hair.

 

9 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

In particular "umbrella man" who calmly smashes windows then slinks away when confronted has caught the attention of activists and others who are speculating about his motives. He doesn't appear to be your typical protester/rioter

Thing is he really didnt instagate much, the folks filming him had no problemo chasing him off.

I give groups like Aryans and Antifa a bit of credit as not being stupid people and not wanting to bring heat on themselves being careless, the odd white guys seen instagating wanted to be seen,  some were just kling ons but the ones that matched each other, they wanted to be seen, i think that is a major clue.

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and then
29 minutes ago, the13bats said:

not a hide nor hair.

So, you think the average person who is demanding their 2A rights be protected should also be willing to place themselves in a position - other than defending their family - to help escalate unrest to the point of killing unarmed protesters?  So if they are attempting to legally protest, you think they're cowardly for not acting as vigilantes?  They aren't idiots, man.  You are paying too attention to the media narrative. 

Now, there definitely is a line that, if crossed is going to cause some bloodshed but it won't be on city streets where these folks will make their stand.

Have you seen this?:

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/06/01/antifa_us/ 

Now, I don't lend this any credence because Antifa have well established their cowardice by attacking vulnerable people in locations where the government will not interfere.  BUT, if some of these fine young patriots decide they actually are men, they will quickly be disabused of their fantasy.

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and then
41 minutes ago, the13bats said:

i would have bet anyone they would have been out protecting their cities

Those who were legally protesting the subversion of their rights by governors in their states would hardly put themselves on the line to prevent violence by those who support those governors.  

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the13bats
3 minutes ago, and then said:

Those who were legally protesting the subversion of their rights by governors in their states would hardly put themselves on the line to prevent violence by those who support those governors.  

Let me ask you, which branch of the military did you serve in and for how long?

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