Trump is Declaring Martial Law in DC

[Kenemet]

3 hours ago, and then said:

Maybe you could ask the question of families in these cities that are cowering in fear while they watch the services they depend on for employment and even housing, burn to the ground.  I think that stopping such mindless destruction would please them.

I think you're conflating a tiny local action with what happens in the city.  I live in Dallas.  I have friends who live in a lot of the other cities that are "burning."  

There are protests and they're usually peaceful -- there's been over 200 of them so far.   Rioting/burning are the focus of many news stories, but on a local scale, these are small incidents.  Dallas and Minneapolis (per friends who live there) have NOT been leveled by fires and riots.  Most protest marches end without arrests.

You can see the list of protests here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests

[Grim Reaper 6]

47 minutes ago, and then said:

You may find this article to be interesting and instructive:

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-R-0755.htm

From the article

Under the Insurrection Act, the President may, without a governor's request, activate federal troops during emergencies, and when deployed under this act, they may perform law enforcement functions within a state. Specifically, this act authorizes the President to deploy federal troops if “insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy”:

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that state and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of the state are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or (2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws (10 USC § 333).

I was unaware of this legal authority that had been granted to a president but the way it is written shows that very careful conditions to its use have been applied.  If the bolded actions do not constitute what we are witnessing in these states then nothing ever will.

I have to ask you, Manwon, at what point would you approve of Trump sending in troops to save innocent Americans in cities that are being destroyed and where their local governments are refusing to act to stop it?  

If he was acting in the best interest American people I would agree with it. Where do Innocent Americans come into it? Where have American people been attacked and injured. The only thing I have been watching this morning is the unnecessary attack on Peaceful Protestors, do you know that some of these people have lost eye's and been very seriously injured. Duncan you have made a very loud Nosie on this forum since I have been a member concerning  how we are losing our civil rights according to the Constitution, well Peaceful protests are covered by that, so I am surprised that you would even ask that question. 

Here is what the Insurrection Act clearly states:

The Insurrection Act is brief. It allows the President, at the request of a state government, to federalize the National Guard and to use the remainder of the Armed Forces to suppress an insurrection against that state's government. It further allows for the President to do the same in a state without the explicit consent of a state's government if it becomes impracticable to enforce federal laws through ordinary proceedings or if states are unable to safeguard its inhabitants'  civil rights.  

Well its very interesting that you feel FEDRAL LAWS in states can not be handled by the State Governors or that it is impractical for them to enforce Federal, and the only Civil Rights that have been Violated is what caused all to occur when the Police Murdered a Black Man while they were being filmed doing. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Under the current situation the President doesn't have the authority to over ride the Governors of States, if he tries to do so, it's going to blow up in his face. over 60% of the States Governors will not support his actions, So then what will happen Andthen?

Peace Duncan

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, and then said:

The truth of that is undeniable.  It is also true that sowing division is being used by one plotical party in its quest for power.  If this nation needs to burn down to stop those elements then so be it.  We can rebuild and start again.

I don't agree with your comments here, but one thing is for certain Trump will ride it out in his Bunker. The only problem is that when he comes out, he will arrested and tried for crimes against the America People.

Peace

[ChrLzs]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I'm not receiving a response to this question so far so let me ask it of you, as well:

When do you think it is appropriate for the president to intervene to protect Americans in cities where looting and rioting are not being controlled by local government?

 

Perhaps when he has exhausted all other means of controlling the situation - you know, like acting like a president, considering the reasons for the riots and addressing those issues (or even just promising to do so), even orating a powerful and calming speech or two..

Instead of actually causing/being the problems.  Instead of tweeting like a moronic teenager and insulting everyone from the crowds thru the governors, instead of threats to send in 'ominous weapons' & vicious dogs, instead of doing all the stuff that he has done over his term to engender this sort of divided country and enable and encourage hideous levels of racism.

Yep, then maybe he should send in the militia.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and then said:

Presidents do not make the decision to "hide".  Their professional security make that call.  I also asked a simple question.  When do you think it is appropriate for the president to intervene to protect Americans in cities where looting and rioting are not being controlled by local government?

Bullsshit, they have the power to over ride any instructions given them in this regard, please you are certainly wiser than that, so why say it, when you don't really believe it yourself.

Peace

[Golden Duck]

19 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Bullsshit, they have the power to over ride any instructions given them in this regard, please you are certainly wiser than that, so why say it, when you don't really believe it yourself.

Peace

Why do you think he is called "Rover"?

(Sorry - low hanging fruit)

PS.  It's actually Mogul

Edited June 2, 2020 by Golden Duck

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Read the links. 

Just curious..,do you live in US?

Not at this moment in time, but I still own property there, so what is your point do want to buy a house I have some others I may sell. For your information I came back to Korea on the 22nd of April, but I may come back to the States at anytime, if I feel like it. Well I can help you out, the only times Federal Troops were deployed was when a during National Disaster occurred and during the 1960's when Americans were having their civil rights taken away from them, you know we are talking about the Jim Crow laws, you know Civil Rights Violations where federal troops had to be sent because the Governor was a Racist and would not employ the National Guard to prevent these violations of Civil Rights. But this situation doesn't fall into those situations, and the Governors don't want his help, so please explain how what you have outlined is taking place right now in America.

Peace

[Grim Reaper 6]

Here is how the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington DC describes President Trumps actions and his visit to the Historic Saint John's Church across from the White House. So in reality the President was trying to change the narrative about the fact he has been hiding in a Bunker, and even that back fired upon him. This guy just doesn't have what it takes to be a President, he can't even address the America people, without pandering to his base. He is coward and this only shows what he is a little more clearly, was he down in a bunker for more than 24 hr's, and what does he do as soon as he comes out.

Threatens to deploy Federal Troops. into States where he doesn't think the Governors are doing a good job of quelling the Violence and looting. While this would have been a good thing days ago, it's like everything else this guy does it's too little far too late. He should have been on National TV speaking to the American people and ensuring them that the full measure of the law would be used to prosecute the individuals responsible for Mr. Flyods death, which could have changed things days ago, but he did, no he didn't do a dam thing, an now he makes foolish threats.

Does anyone think at this point the Protestors care what he says, or the threats he is making, these people are not going to back down until justice has been given to the family of the man who died. As far the Looters, and those who have been vandalizing property in the States effected by demonstrations they will get their just rewards. They are on film, idiots didn't even have their faces covered in many instances, in the days following this civil rest the Looters and all the other criminals better hide because the law is coming for you!!!!! 

The Rev. Mariann Budde, whose diocese St. John’s belongs to, said in a statement that she was “outraged” by Trump’s visit and noted that he didn’t pray while stopping by the church, a landmark known for its regular visits from sitting presidents since the early 19th century.

“He took the symbols sacred to our tradition and stood in front of a house of prayer in full expectation that would be a celebratory moment,” Budde said in an interview after her statement on Trump’s visit was posted to the diocese’s Twitter account.

“There was nothing I could do but speak out against that,” she added, calling for a focus on “the deeper wounds of the country” amid ongoing demonstrations against racial injustice.

Budde said the church was “just completely caught off-guard” by the visit, with “no sense that this was a sacred space to be used for sacred purposes.” In order to facilitate Trump’s statement there, she said, she believed tear gas was used in the area between the White House and the church.

The bishop, who last year joined other Washington National Cathedral leaders in a statement that excoriated Trump’s “racialized rhetoric,” firmly aligned her faith with the goals of peaceful protesters driven by Floyd’s death to decry systemic racism.

“In no way do we support the President’s incendiary response to a wounded, grieving nation,” Budde said in her statement. “In faithfulness to our Savior who lived a life of non-violence and sacrificial love, we align ourselves with those seeking justice for the death of George Floyd.”

Here's a link to the above information along with the rest of the Article:

https://apnews.com/09f54acd0aadf861ea3aadc5b79c0fd8 

Peace

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Here is how the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington DC describes President Trumps actions and his visit to the Historic Saint John's Church across from the White House. So in reality the President was trying to change the narrative about the fact he has been hiding in a Bunker, and even that back fired upon him. This guy just doesn't have what it takes to be a President, he can't even address the America people, without pandering to his base. He is coward and this only shows what he is a little more clearly, was he down in a bunker for more than 24 hr's, and what does he do as soon as he comes out.

Threatens to deploy Federal Troops. into States where he doesn't think the Governors are doing a good job of quelling the Violence and looting. While this would have been a good thing days ago, it's like everything else this guy does it's too little far too late. He should have been on National TV speaking to the American people and ensuring them that the full measure of the law would be used to prosecute the individuals responsible for Mr. Flyods death, which could have changed things days ago, but he did, no he didn't do a dam thing, an now he makes foolish threats.

Does anyone think at this point the Protestors care what he says, or the threats he is making, these people are not going to back down until justice has been given to the family of the man who died. As far the Looters, and those who have been vandalizing property in the States effected by demonstrations they will get their just rewards. They are on film, idiots didn't even have their faces covered in many instances, in the days following this civil rest the Looters and all the other criminals better hide because the law is coming for you!!!!! 

The Rev. Mariann Budde, whose diocese St. John’s belongs to, said in a statement that she was “outraged” by Trump’s visit and noted that he didn’t pray while stopping by the church, a landmark known for its regular visits from sitting presidents since the early 19th century.

“He took the symbols sacred to our tradition and stood in front of a house of prayer in full expectation that would be a celebratory moment,” Budde said in an interview after her statement on Trump’s visit was posted to the diocese’s Twitter account.

“There was nothing I could do but speak out against that,” she added, calling for a focus on “the deeper wounds of the country” amid ongoing demonstrations against racial injustice.

Budde said the church was “just completely caught off-guard” by the visit, with “no sense that this was a sacred space to be used for sacred purposes.” In order to facilitate Trump’s statement there, she said, she believed tear gas was used in the area between the White House and the church.

The bishop, who last year joined other Washington National Cathedral leaders in a statement that excoriated Trump’s “racialized rhetoric,” firmly aligned her faith with the goals of peaceful protesters driven by Floyd’s death to decry systemic racism.

“In no way do we support the President’s incendiary response to a wounded, grieving nation,” Budde said in her statement. “In faithfulness to our Savior who lived a life of non-violence and sacrificial love, we align ourselves with those seeking justice for the death of George Floyd.”

Here's a link to the above information along with the rest of the Article:

https://apnews.com/09f54acd0aadf861ea3aadc5b79c0fd8 

Peace

 

It certainly is shameful and even the Bishop of Episcopal Archdiocese in Washington DC thinks it shameful.

https://apnews.com/09f54acd0aadf861ea3aadc5b79c0fd8

Peace

Nothing could be more true than what Governor Como has said below. 

Peace 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Hankenhunter]

1 hour ago, and then said:

The truth of that is undeniable.  It is also true that sowing division is being used by one plotical party in its quest for power.  If this nation needs to burn down to stop those elements then so be it.  We can rebuild and start again.

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

28 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

 

Excuse you! 
There already is a Saint Donald. https://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=621

Stop stealing our saints! Damn Americans. :p

Edited June 2, 2020 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[ChrLzs]

Stop pickin' on Donald!!!  He needs more accolades, like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/01/donald-trump-is-bravest-man-america/

 

[ChrLzs]

4 hours ago, and then said:

I've seen no evidence that anyone has "attacked" peaceful protesters...

   Perhaps you might want to get off Fox News and open your dam eyes.  The very first item on Google's news feed here in Oz was this...

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/morning-shows/sunrise-reporter-amelia-brace-and-cameraman-attacked-by-police-live-on-air/news-story/49951d1131ddc82f59af53cb4cecaca2

Watch the whole thing..  Would you like ten more?  50?

Edited June 2, 2020 by ChrLzs

[ChrLzs]

2 minutes ago, 19_Kilo said:

Thus, it's apparent he's in a no-win situation

Mmm.  Largely true.  Have you considered why he is in that position?

[ChrLzs]

2 minutes ago, 19_Kilo said:

He's only in that position with his detractors. Like the person I was addressing the comment to. Last I checked it wasn't you.

Ooops, I'm soooooo sorry.  I thought this was a public forum.  My mistake.

2 minutes ago, 19_Kilo said:

All politicians are in no-win sits with their detractors. Been going on since the time of Classical Greece. Socrates was condemned to death for corrupting the minds of his youthful followers.

And with that, you justify Trump...  Yep, using that same logic they laughed at Da Vinci, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.  That is probably the most daft argument ever.  Which, I guess, fits.....

[Duke Wellington]

7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

While he didn't openly say it, he has declared Martial Law, this could be the beginning of Trumps grab for power, this could be the end of Democracy in America. Well the President has exactly WHAT HE HAS ALWAYS WANTED, a situation where he can put US troops on the street, now we have to sit back and wait to see how this will end, this is the worst situation I have ever seen in 60 years of life.

Peace

I hope he is clever enough to get it through.

About time the democrats were made illegal.

[Grim Reaper 6]

43 minutes ago, 19_Kilo said:

Any POTUS would be required,  if not forced by Secret Service protection to be sequestered in a secure setting when hostile protesters are outside the gates. Hell,  they get forced into safety and the White House put on full lockdown when one suspicious person breaches the grounds. So are they all cowards too? 

If by contrast Trump brushed off his SS protection..Which they'd never allow...And went outside and confronted the mob, I'd suspect you'd call him a reckless cowboy. Thus, it's apparent he's in a no-win situation with you.

I supplied links several times showing when federal troops were deployed domestically.  Obviously you elected not to read them. There were four, at least. DC/Bonus Army...Detroit...LA...New Orleans.  But again,  I explained the likely rationale for POTUS doing so here. And what makes you think he may not have been advised by his military liasons to do so? 

I'm not interested in what a bishop or any religious figure has to say about matters he has zero experience in. Anyone who is a religious fundamentalist or a biblical literalist has lost all credibility with me. It's also a deal breaker for someone like that to be a POTUS.  Can't trust them. I used to like Huckabee till I found out he was a Creationist. 

And I have my own house here in Austin,  thanks.

Oh, you never answered my question about whether you might change your mind on POTUS threatening the use of the military if violent protests and riots were occurring on your street.

That bishop sounded like he was riding with the protesters. Wonder how he'd feel if they looted his church?

I'm all for peaceful protest, and indeed have engaged in civil disobedience myself in the past. Even in a Direct Action. But it was peaceful. Whenever protesters engage in violence and looting and destruction they have lost the moral high ground. For good. They've denigrated their cause. Of course most who do that never did it for a cause in the first place, but used it only as an excuse to do destruction.

Your OP header is still false. Thought you corrected that?  Do you know the difference between martial law and deploying troops to quell domestic unrest?  It's kind of a big diff.

And lastly, ALL politicians pander to their base. It's rule #1 in politics.  It's called "securing the base."

Stay safe.

First of the incidents you provided where the Military was called in was Natural Disasters, and the Governors approved, or in the 60's when the Civil rights of Black Americans were being violated, and none of those events are the same as what is happening here. Not to mention that the Governor's of the affected states will not support it, so in that case where does that lead?

If violent demonstrations were occurring on my street, so long as they didn't try and damage my property, I would watch. If they began to destroy my home or my property, in that case I would start shooting. Trust me that's the last thing I would want to do, but I would do so, and trust me I am armed to the teeth. I would stay hidden just watching them with my Sniper Rifle and with the flash suppressor I have on that rifle they would not even see the muzzle flash, the first indication of my presence would be someone's head exploding and the sound of the rifle shot.

After the first two maybe three they would start running, and the chances are real good I would never be charged with a crime when all was said and done. So I don't know what you would do, but that would be my reaction, and I think many other people would do something similar in that situation. Yes all politicians do pander to their base, but not for the purpose of covering up the fact that they were outed for hiding in a bunker. As far the President having to follow secret service orders the President can override Secret Service instructions anytime he chooses to do so and they have authority to do anything about it.

Oh and just to help you out, the Bishop in question is a female not a male as you stated, as far as religious extremists go why do you think he was standing out there looking like an idiot holding his Bible. That was a message to his Christian Zionist Base, you just don't get it, he is not a religious man, he never opened that Bible, or went into the Church and prayed, his actions were nothing but a message to the Zionists, and deflect the fact that he has been hiding in a Bunker. Then back to his bunker, hiding like a good Coward in Chief, the guy is through, America is just waking up and his days are numbered, come November he's gone.

Peace

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

44 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I hope he is clever enough to get it through.

About time the democrats were made illegal.

Thanks Cookie I needed a laugh today, dude you could make a million dollars being a comedian!!!

Peace my Brother

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

 

He is the American Messiah not someone worthy of impeachment lol.

[Grim Reaper 6]

I was born with a Silver Spoon stuck in my Butt, in the Highlands of New York many years ago and I am Immortal. I am the Coward in Chief and never forget I always have your best interests in mind while I am hiding in my bunker.  Peace 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[bee]

6 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Actually I wish I was still active and could be deployed to DC or Minneapolis. I'd love to drive my Abrams down Pennsylvania Avenue to scatter those domestic terrorists. 

Good for you...

The domestic terrorists - violent protesters and looters (and useful idiots) are being used a a proxy army to bring down America.. 

it's upsetting to see it all happening ... the peaceful protesters are being used as a human shield and smoke screen for the insurrection.. they are being shamelessly exploited by those professing to care... (IMO)

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by bee

[the13bats]

4 minutes ago, bee said:

Good for you...

The domestic terrorists - violent protesters and looters (and useful idiots) are being used a a proxy army to bring down America.. 

it's upsetting to see it all happening ... the peaceful protesters are being used as a human shield and smoke screen for the insurrection..
being shamelessly exploited by those professing to care... 

 

I simply have no clue why trump would do this to America.

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Actually I wish I was still active and could be deployed to DC or Minneapolis. I'd love to drive my Abrams down Pennsylvania Avenue to scatter those domestic terrorists. 

What's stopping you from going there and taking care of the Domestic Terrorists yourself? If you feel that strongly about it you had better get going, or is this just talk, remember Lead, Follow, or Get the F out of the way. Well it doesn't appear that you are a Leader, so I suppose following is your way, well then get back to your bunker, and follow your Leader.

Peace

[bee]

4 hours ago, and then said:

My apologies if I misunderstood.  This thread has gotten pretty intense and it shows the amount of division among Americans about what is happening in our nation right now.  Had we seen an outpouring of support for the actions of that cop then I might understand the current violence but that did not occur at all.  No one in media found a single person on interview that agreed with what that vicious, sadistic POS did to Mr Floyd.  The information coming out about him shows that he was no choirboy BUT he was a man who was at least trying to turn his life in more positive directions.  IMO, even if he had been witnessed MURDERING someone, he didn't deserve to die as he did.  This nation used to be better than that.  

What I find to be just as disgraceful is the behavior of politicians who are using this to attempt to create a situation that can be spun against Trump and are willing to watch their own cities destroyed in the effort.  When government officials begin to subscribe to a philosophy of "the end justifies the means" civilization is on its way down.

 

bolded.... so true

they ARE a disgrace and until the violent mob is at their door they will stay smug in their bubble...

I think some know exactly what they are doing and some are just dumb.. and others too weak to stand up to the insurgents -

 

 

[bee]

 

I see the trolls... pretending to be authentic members are out in force... 

helping the insurgents and the take down of Trump / America from the comfort of their own home / office