Trump is Declaring Martial Law in DC

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, and then said:

You mean like the mayors and governors AND Trump already had done?  Like that?  That was tried and we witnessed escalation.  It was tried several times and escalation continued.  You may believe the violent element on the streets are righteously outraged but the evidence says otherwise.  These people are destroying and stealing because they WANT to do it.  They will contnue to do it until they are resisted with force.  

 

I tend to agree that they nail these issues.  What happened in the park was wrong but she constantly conflates "protesters" with those rioting and they are NOT the same.  The problem is that instigators are using this mix of people to destroy and innocent people are getting caught up in the crossfire.  If the soldiers are actually put on the street then the protesters need to obey curfews and peacefully assemble to protest in daylight.  Those who are looting and burning need shooting on sight.  Enough is enough.  Those who are fanning these flames would love for this to continue to escalate until the government falls or we are at war internally.  This is no longer just a protest and I don't think it has been for days.

Good thing you didn't take my bet, it looks like the President isn't going to follow through. I mean what a Surprise that is. It's really a shame that he's not a man that means what he says. It's actually embarrassing both in America and on the World stage, he has lost his credibility, the only other President I remember doing this on a Regular basis was President Obama, I have a feeling they are Brothers from different Mothers, and that's why Trump started the Birther movement, because Dad liked Obama better than him. I mean what is wrong with these Presidents today either they are hiding in their bunker or they are attacking peaceful protestors for a photo op at a closed Church, and that turn out bad on so many levels and he looked like a complete idiot, Duncan I bet that was a face in hand moment for you. 

Peace Bro

[XenoFish]

Manwon I've got a question for you. Have you in your entire life made a decision that will affect a whole country? 

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

i live and work in nyc,   everywhere those "protesters" were is destroyed, burned looted, my city has a  curfew now, never happened before, 

You are probably too young to remember the MLK assassination riots.  I remember them.  And the almost week long Stonewall Riots in NYC (and so on for at least another 45 riots in NYC's history where buildings were burned and stores looted by people of every ethnicity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States)

Riots and curfews.  Curfews for a lot of things in NYC, including demonstrations-but-not-riots.

[Kenemet]

3 hours ago, aztek said:

so which store did you loot?

Goshdarnit!  I *KNEW* there was something I forgot to do! 

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, lightly said:

. I've heard that American banks won't loan trump money anymore.    I seriously wonder if he might be into the Russian mob for a substantial sum.      Just a thought...  (ducks)

The self proclaimed "King of Debt"  kinda wore out his welcome with American banks.  As his supporters will tell you he has only been bankrupt a few times.  But they were big enough to leave some banks holding the bag.  Banks don't like anybody making a habit of that.

[Tatetopa]

32 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That is bull****, if a group of cops think they can get away with that then the city or county needs to get rid of the cheif or sheriff that allows that.  

Yes, I would agree with that. You do recall who said it and when. He hasn't changed his tune.  It is hard to expect anything different from him this time.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

What is your count of thinly veiled threats with no action up to now? Just curious...

 

Hey, you know your crowd and I know mine.  Your opinion of me isn't something I lose sleep over.  Listening to you whine incessantly about your problems gets a little boring but hey, to each his own.  BTW, I started a thread awhile back about the world we'd face "without rule of law".  It didn't gain much traction, I guess folks like yourself figured it was ridiculous.  I guess they make the same mistake many of us did back in January when we saw those images out of China.  Something about people makes them think it won't happen to them.

You have a nice day.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

What needs to be done here is a show of concrete action.  For example, an executive order making choke holds illegal on subdued/non resisting arrestees.

I'd have no problem at all with such action being taken.  I'd go further and demand a Federal audit of complaints against officers who are getting multiple warnings.  NO ONE is arguing that what was done to Floyd was justified.  We've seen video of black clad folks casually destroying property and using what appears to be high end comms.  That points to coordination.  Also, there have been deliveries of stacks of bricks and one case where a bunch of incendiaries were cached for use.  

What I'm saying is not directed at those who are peacefully protesting.  We seem to have the half of this nation that is obsessed with Trump and singly focused on removing him who are willing, apparently, to watch everything burn to accomplish this. That isn't an accusation toward you, just an observation.  Every person has a right to hate whoever they choose but when that hate so intensifies that they've lost all sense of proportion and are willing to literally countenance ANYTHING to vent that hate against this man then that makes them the enemy of this country, IMO.

This has gone beyond politics and has become a struggle for power in this nation and if we see the election this fall done in such a way that there is widespread evidence of ballot stuffing in the few states that will turn the election then we can expect all of this to continue or get worse.  I've been predicting for weeks that a Trump win in November would see blue cities on fire.  I never imagined they'd act long in advance of the election.  Maybe that shows their internal polling is scaring the hell out of them.

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, Kenemet said:

so you can walk to a church and hold up a book you never read

This is an example of a rational, cogent point being derailed by an obvious loathing and desire to lash out at the man even though you've never met him and cannot possibly KNOW what he does or does not do in his private life.  Just thought I'd point that out to you.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

Maybe it's time for Martial Law.

 

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

Wow. Advocating for the government to murder it's own citizens with no due process? Which america are you fighting for again??

Americans who are in full scale violent revolt and who are literally attempting to destroy cities one block at a time are putting their lives at risk.  Let me ask you a serious question.  At what point would YOU be willing to use extreme force to restore order?  Manwon had a little trouble with this one.  I think it caused a brain cramp.  Let's see how you do.  

4 cops in St Louis were shot last night.  In Richmond Virginia one of these crowds of "protesters" set fire to a building that had children inside and then acted to block the response by the fire department.  NYC's high end shopping district was systematically looted and in several other cities there has been similar kinds of actions.  So, where do the rights of the violent end and the rights of those who are simply in the way, begin?  You be the judge.  

At what point would a president be justified in sending troops into the streets to restore order?  What say you?

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

It didn't calm things and in fact left lasting problems.

Okay, fair point.  If you disagree with the way he handled it early on then we just have to agree to disagree.  In a setting where he had been given any semblance of respect, at least respect to the office he held, I could agree that he reacted unjustly.  That isn't where we are.  The man has gotten nothing but disrespect and hate for 3 years and he tends to respect those who return it.

He is a president and not a mayor or a governor.  If he steps in early and takes the lead in any of these states where this is happening, a honest person would admit he'd be attacked by politicians and media.  The fact that he waited for a few days to make a move was all about allowing these leaders at the local level to do their jobs.  Once we were 6 days in and things were escalating rather than dissipating, he decided he had to take his own responsibilities to the people and act whether the states would or not.

Allow me to ask the same question of you that I have of others.  At what point during this crisis do you believe he would be justified to take forceful action to stop the looting and burning?  In a free society, where do we draw the line between protest and lawlessness?  

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

Where did we see an escalation after community leaders were called in to help calm the situation?  Which cities?  Can you give me a link so I can look at the news reports?  And who called in those leaders to help?

https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-frey-calls-for-peace-as-looting-flames-erupt-around-police-station/570816112/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/madison-mayor-community-leaders-call-for-calm-on-violent-night/ar-BB14PaQP

In the early days of this event, everyone from Trump to the governors to the mayors were pleading for calm.  I'd say the events that unfolded after that is clearly escalation.  In fact, unless some threat of force is brought to bear, it will continue to escalate.  This isn't a difficult call.  These people who are trashing their cities are criminals and will behave like criminals until they are stopped.  I'm not sure why that reality is difficult for an adult to understand.

[Trelane]

21 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Active duty Army troops were deployed in Little Rock,  Detroit, New Orleans, in the past. Also the infamous Bonus Army. That's 4 by my count.

When and what was done legally prior that made it legal to deploy active duty Soldiers? New Orleans was disaster response to a historic hurricane, so yeah.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, Trelane said:

When and what was done legally prior that made it legal to deploy active duty Soldiers? New Orleans was disaster response to a historic hurricane, so yeah.

I'm not familiar with the specifics but I'd say that it should clear that if the state officials refuse to try to restore order and citizens are being left in great jeopardy then it is the duty of a president to take charge.  Otherwise, citizens are without help and are vulnerable.  That should be an easy call for anyone.

[Trelane]

1 minute ago, and then said:

I'm not familiar with the specifics but I'd say that it should clear that if the state officials refuse to try to restore order and citizens are being left in great jeopardy then it is the duty of a president to take charge.  Otherwise, citizens are without help and are vulnerable.  That should be an easy call for anyone.

It gets very tricky for a president to that though legally. As much as he's hated I don't see Trump just trying to cut deployment orders without the ramifications that would follow.

[+and-then]

30 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Maybe it's time for Martial Law.

I doubt there is a single Democrat governor that would be willing to risk the votes to protect their citizens.  Trump needs to quickly follow through with the Insurrection Act and take whatever level of force necessary to stop this before it spins completely out of control.  Once the shooting begins, parts of those cities are going to have to be cleared door to door by the military and there almost certainly will be casualties and innocents who will die.  Meanwhile those whose insane rage at Trump make them blind to everything else can't seem to honestly state the dividing line between protest and insurrection and at which point Trump would be justified in taking military action.  

IMO, it's because they aren't honest enough to admit their irrationality because they KNOW that  they'd blame him no matter what he does or when he does it.  That makes them as much a part of the problem as the looters.

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, Trelane said:

It gets very tricky for a president to that though legally. As much as he's hated I don't see Trump just trying to cut deployment orders without the ramifications that would follow.

I agree but then where does that leave our nation?  These violent actions are not going to dissipate organically.  We've reached what they used to call the "wilding" stage.  Those who hate the man seem perfectly willing to watch the mayhem in an effort to take him down and IMO that makes them evil.  They are literally sacrificing the lives and futures of their own citizens for political points.

[Trelane]

Just now, and then said:

I agree but then where does that leave our nation?  These violent actions are not going to dissipate organically.  We've reached what they used to call the "wilding" stage.  Those who hate the man seem perfectly willing to watch the mayhem in an effort to take him down and IMO that makes them evil.  They are literally sacrificing the lives and futures of their own citizens for political points.

There are "leaders" at all levels who should be involved, not just looking at a president for action. The silence and impotence from some local governments is telling, or should be. The issue at hand is, when is the acceptable level for the executive branch of the federal government required to address these localized civil actions. Opinions vary, as do results.

[Michelle]

Chattanooga police chief tells officers who 'dont have an issue' with Floyd death to turn in badges

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (WVLT) -- Chattanooga Police Chief, David Roddy took to Twitter to send a message to fellow officers in response to the death of George Floyd.

On Wednesday, Roddy said officers who don't see an issue with the video that showed former Minneapolis police officer David Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck as Floyd repeatedly said, "I can't breathe," should quit.

"There is no need to see more video," Roddy said. " There no need to wait to see how “it plays out”. There is no need to put a knee on someone’s neck for NINE minutes. There IS a need to DO something. If you wear a badge and you don’t have an issue with this...turn it in."

cont...

https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Chattanooga-police-chief-tells-officers--570905411.html

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

15 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Chattanooga police chief tells officers who 'dont have an issue' with Floyd death to turn in badges

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (WVLT) -- Chattanooga Police Chief, David Roddy took to Twitter to send a message to fellow officers in response to the death of George Floyd.

On Wednesday, Roddy said officers who don't see an issue with the video that showed former Minneapolis police officer David Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck as Floyd repeatedly said, "I can't breathe," should quit.

"There is no need to see more video," Roddy said. " There no need to wait to see how “it plays out”. There is no need to put a knee on someone’s neck for NINE minutes. There IS a need to DO something. If you wear a badge and you don’t have an issue with this...turn it in."

cont...

https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Chattanooga-police-chief-tells-officers--570905411.html

So, according to Raven, this police chief is “anti-police” because according to them if you’re against one police officer you’re against them all.

[Jarocal]

5 hours ago, Kenemet said:

No, I'm not confusing the two.  Disperse the crowds and the looters can't act.

And "nothing to talk about"?  There's plenty to talk about (including why it took 4 days to charge a known officer with murder and why the others with him haven't been charged.  Fired, yes, but... no charges?  Not even "depraved indifference"?  That's a lame response from the police department.

Floyd was just the tip of the iceberg; the "straw" that broke the camel's back.  Problems need to be addressed and some of the culture needs to be fixed, including the over-militarization of the police.  Ignoring it or delaying the response isn't going to make the situation less difficult.

IMHO the bolded is the major change that needs to occur. In this particular incident there were three police officers on the scene, the suspect was handcuffed and if the legs needed manacled also to control the suspect two officers could have maintained a restraint on the suspect while the 3rd manacled the legs. I saw no reason for a knee on the neck restricting the suspects airflow to the point of asphyxiation. Maintaining such a restriction after the suspect became unresponsive to me shows wilful intent, though I would concede it is at least the least gross negligence legally.

 

[Golden Duck]

32 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

IMHO the bolded is the major change that needs to occur. In this particular incident there were three police officers on the scene, the suspect was handcuffed and if the legs needed manacled also to control the suspect two officers could have maintained a restraint on the suspect while the 3rd manacled the legs. I saw no reason for a knee on the neck restricting the suspects airflow to the point of asphyxiation. Maintaining such a restriction after the suspect became unresponsive to me shows wilful intent, though I would concede it is at least the least gross negligence legally.

Two paragraphs from an official statement ...

Quote

...

It is time to stop watching the violence and to confront and stop it.  The continued violence and destruction of property endangers the lives and livelihoods of others, and interferes with the rights of peaceful protestors, as well as all other citizens. 

It also undercuts the urgent work that needs to be done – through constructive engagement between affected communities and law enforcement leaders – to address legitimate grievances.  Preventing reconciliation and driving us apart is the goal of these radical groups, and we cannot let them succeed.

...

Guess who...

Spoiler

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barrs-statement-riots-and-domestic-terrorism

A Presidential Commission would be a good start.

[+joc]

12 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

If he deploys Active US Military Personnel  on American Soil without the consent of a State Governor that is Martial Law. First I do not support the left, and until Trump is gone I can't support the right, I remember Kent State, I watched it happen on TV, as for the Vietnam era, I also watched that on TV every day, but I suspect that was a little before your time, so your knowledge only comes from books upon the subject. If Trump had his way it would be the end of Democracy in America, I mean he immolates Putin, Kim, and X not because of what they do, but because they are in charge. He loves strong male dictators and he has a man crush on all of them. In addition if he could he would also be one, but that will never happen because with his mental issues so obvious he would be stopped before he ever came close. 

Now I know when people like you are threatened, you must start the name calling as is highlighted above. It's obvious why you do it, and it's simply because you have lost the conversation, never forget, you should never show your anger publicly because once that happens your thoughts are only about self and not the conversation, so you lose.

1. I'm not angry...I am indifferent.  I don't even listen to the news.  Nothing I can do to change anything and I don't think much of other people's heartaches being used as entertainment fodder to line the well healed pockets of the media elite.

2.  You are a Lefty.  Otherwise...you would like Trump.  You don't support the right..not because of Trump...but because you are a lefty.

3. I know you are a lefty because everything you say is right out of the play book of the left.

4. I'm 62 btw...so...I never read anything about Vietnam...I lived it like most of the rest of my generation...on the evening news!  

5. You don't know anything about Trump.  You just hate him because...the left hates him and...you are a lefty.

6. I haven't lost any conversation....I didn't start the conversation...you did.

7.  There are only two kinds of people...winners  and losers.  I'm a winner.  I would suspect you think you are as well...guess again.

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, and then said:

Hey, you know your crowd and I know mine.  Your opinion of me isn't something I lose sleep over.  Listening to you whine incessantly about your problems gets a little boring but hey, to each his own.  BTW, I started a thread awhile back about the world we'd face "without rule of law".  It didn't gain much traction, I guess folks like yourself figured it was ridiculous.  I guess they make the same mistake many of us did back in January when we saw those images out of China.  Something about people makes them think it won't happen to them.

You have a nice day.

I thought it got some traction.  It was rather prophetic.