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travelnjones

Protests effectively end quarantine

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Big Jim
5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

When we were in Ireland every hotel had CNN but not FOX. At home I read the news on the internet. I'm sure a lot of people there do too. Between the internet and cable anyone can get the news from anywhere. I read AU from Australia at least a few times a week.

Most of the news I do get I get from the internet.  A lot of it comes from what folks on this site link to and discuss.  I scan the Fox page but usually only look at the headlines.  There's darn little that I want to get that deeply involved with that doesn't affect my world directly.  Even when I watch the "local news" I'm glad to know that most of it is happening 50 miles away.  Nothing ever happens in my little village and that's just the way I like it.

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Michelle

I'm a news junkie. :lol:

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the13bats
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Big Jim said:

The news does not go through the White House for approval.  The Press is not only independent but openly liberal and anti-Trump.  Any renewed COVID-19 outbreaks will be gleefully reported from every outlet available.

Yeah, i guess you have a point, today i see,

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/trump-george-floyd-comments-economy-unemployment

21 hours ago, bee said:

:rolleyes:

do you EVER stop dishonestly twisting what people say.....

 

Do you?

14 hours ago, Montmorency the Dog said:

Are you afraid? Then go right ahead and be afraid, but don't try to impose your dictatorship of the fearful on everyone else

images(44).jpg.584399616f20a80c957bafeef7d743d3.jpg

Your reply didnt really make sense in relation to what you quoted from me, but ill give a reply a shot,

Im not "affraid" and im also not stupid enough to play Russian roulette with some virus killing over 100k in the USA,  so i take my own safety precautions. If that makes me look fearful in your mind, im comfortable..

If you wanna run a muck and take zero percationions, i say more power to you.

My "dictatorship?" where in the world did you get a ludicrous idea like that, im nothing like trump wanting to dictate others. Like i said go nuts,  go try to catch covid if it makes you all happy happy joy joy.

Edited by the13bats

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RoofGardener
21 hours ago, the13bats said:

Yeeeeeesss... umm.. the Guardian is quoting - I believe - MSNBC. And MSNBC (and hence the Guardian) are telling an absolute, outright lie.

They suggest that Donald Trump implied that George Floyd would be looking down from heaven, and smiling at the good economic news.

Donald Trump never said that. He never said anything LIKE that. The media didn't just TWIST his words, they actually put words into his mouth that he never spoke. I'm amazed this isn't a big story in its own right ?

 

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RoofGardener
On 6/5/2020 at 5:29 PM, Gromdor said:

Remember how Trump was complaining about how it was China's fault because they gave false/conflicting information?

In this case Trump=China and the individual states=Trump.

 

Pandemics are a national emergency and the CDC is an federal agency.  Just because Trump gave up/dropped the ball and forced the individual states to try to solve this national problem doesn't mean that he absolved himself of responsibility.

It is the job of the States to manage the pandemic, albeit with Federal assistance should they choose to call on it, and with Federal scientific resources available to them. It is NOT the job of the President.

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

It is the job of the States to manage the pandemic, albeit with Federal assistance should they choose to call on it, and with Federal scientific resources available to them. It is NOT the job of the President.

Trump disagrees with you.  Evidenced by his previous comments regarding Obama on both the ebola and swine flu outbreaks.

 

Well, also the various medical institutions disagrees with you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143067/

"While all sectors of society are involved in pandemic preparedness and response, the national government is the natural leader for overall coordination and communication efforts."

 

Do you have a source absolving the Federal Government of responsibility?   

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Trump disagrees with you.  Evidenced by his previous comments regarding Obama on both the ebola and swine flu outbreaks.

 

Well, also the various medical institutions disagrees with you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143067/

"While all sectors of society are involved in pandemic preparedness and response, the national government is the natural leader for overall coordination and communication efforts."

 

Do you have a source absolving the Federal Government of responsibility?   

Indeed @Gromdor. The States are the ones involved in the actual response. The Federal Government can merely offer overal coordination.

Edited by RoofGardener
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Gromdor
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Indeed @Gromdor. The States are the ones involved in the actual response. The Federal Government can merely offer overal coordination.

Hmm...  In my experience that would be called leadership-  And with leadership comes responsibility.

But honestly we need to scrap whatever system we currently have.  All it did was make us number one in infections and deaths in the world.  We have around 10x the deaths in the US alone than all of Africa ever had of ebola in a mere few months.  Trump was crying like a baby about that back then.

Edited by Gromdor
spellcheck

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Jarocal
15 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Trump disagrees with you.  Evidenced by his previous comments regarding Obama on both the ebola and swine flu outbreaks.

 

Well, also the various medical institutions disagrees with you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143067/

"While all sectors of society are involved in pandemic preparedness and response, the national government is the natural leader for overall coordination and communication efforts."

 

Do you have a source absolving the Federal Government of responsibility?   

If we are going to bold or highlight a statement can we at least make sure it is the entire sentence? Overall coordination and communication is far different from being the leader in solving the problem. 

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Jarocal said:

If we are going to bold or highlight a statement can we at least make sure it is the entire sentence? Overall coordination and communication is far different from being the leader in solving the problem. 

No it not.  Leaders coordinate things.   They aren't an idle pointless figure head. 

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Desertrat56
24 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

While all sectors of society are involved in pandemic preparedness and response, the national government is the natural leader for overall coordination and communication efforts."

The national government is not the president, it is all bodies of the government together.

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Jarocal
Just now, Gromdor said:

No it not.  Leaders coordinate things.   They aren't an idle pointless figure head. 

 

I don't view federal agencies coordinating individual state responses as the saying "You need to do this", which I will add Trump did do. Federal coordination and communication leadership would be a  central hub where CDC and other resources could be access at a single point by the 50 states and other territories of the U.S.A. 

Not having 50 governors, health secretaries,  and other officials wasting time contacting each other individually but instead able to interact at one spot to see efforts or policies being promulgated with their effects is far more efficient.

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Gromdor

Okay, let me rephrase:

Who is leading us against the pandemic?  50+ governors and territory leaders?

We know our response has failed because we wouldn't be having this argument about responsibility otherwise.  I can't blame my governor because she doesn't have the authority screen people entering/exiting the country in other states.  Heck out international airport doesn't even do international flights.

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Jarocal
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Okay, let me rephrase:

Who is leading us against the pandemic?  50+ governors and territory leaders?

We know our response has failed because we wouldn't be having this argument about responsibility otherwise.  I can't blame my governor because she doesn't have the authority screen people entering/exiting the country in other states.  Heck out international airport doesn't even do international flights.

Your  governor does have the authority to screen everyone entering the state via land route and has the resources (national guard) to implement such a screening. I work in what is considered an Essential industry and traveled between 4 states the entire time of the quarantine. Did I take necessary precautions? Yes. Did I do it because some Orange buffoon or leftist mouthpieces were telling me to? No. It is not a difficult or incomprehensible task to view how other nations have dealt with pandemics in the past and take the precaution they did. H1N1, SARS, these things have existed in recent past. It is not like Comparing covid to the early 19th century influenza (though there are some parallels ), or the zoonotic disease Native Americans encountered at first European contact. No government "led us through" those pandemics, the populace did what they needed to in order to survive. The current pandemic is running at a far lower death rate than any of the ones I mentioned. Is it horrible? Yes. Is it worthy of fear mongering to the point of near global extinction? No.

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travelnjones

I thought i was asking a question about the nature of quarantines and lockdowns, not about governments and powers Whoops.

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Gromdor
4 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

Your  governor does have the authority to screen everyone entering the state via land route and has the resources (national guard) to implement such a screening. I work in what is considered an Essential industry and traveled between 4 states the entire time of the quarantine. Did I take necessary precautions? Yes. Did I do it because some Orange buffoon or leftist mouthpieces were telling me to? No. It is not a difficult or incomprehensible task to view how other nations have dealt with pandemics in the past and take the precaution they did. H1N1, SARS, these things have existed in recent past. It is not like Comparing covid to the early 19th century influenza (though there are some parallels ), or the zoonotic disease Native Americans encountered at first European contact. No government "led us through" those pandemics, the populace did what they needed to in order to survive. The current pandemic is running at a far lower death rate than any of the ones I mentioned. Is it horrible? Yes. Is it worthy of fear mongering to the point of near global extinction? No.

We won't face global extinction from this.  We will have unnecessary deaths numbering in the tens of thousands, however.

On a side note:  I am considered essential industry as well but was prohibited from traveling out of state because that would trigger an automatic 14 day quarantine.  To the contrary, they were talking about locking us down on the job to isolate us.  I find it humorous on the lack of coordination on even the simplest things such as that from the personal experiences of both you and I.  Effective leadership/coordination on something as such as that would have been helpful.  Heck, currently America doesn't even know if it needs to wear a mask or not.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, travelnjones said:

I thought i was asking a question about the nature of quarantines and lockdowns, not about governments and powers Whoops.

Ah, I suppose we have been wandering off topic a bit.  But yes, the protests effectively ended the quarantines from what I have seen.

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the13bats
5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

They suggest that Donald Trump implied that George Floyd would be looking down from heaven, and smiling at the good economic news

In the video i saw of trump his own words he also gave me that impression, go look up and watch tweetys video,

But yeah i know any news that shows trump for himself is fake.

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Desertrat56
2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Ah, I suppose we have been wandering off topic a bit.  But yes, the protests effectively ended the quarantines from what I have seen.

It depends on the states.  The quarantine was lifted before the protests in the state I live in, with conditions that everyone wear a mask in public or if they are serving the public.  That happened before the incident that triggered the protests.  I am sure it happened in Arizona before that with different conditions, then the protests triggered curfews.  AND if you have been tested positive for the virus you are quarantined, SO, at least in my state the protests have nothing to do with whether the quarantine is lifted or not.

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Michelle
10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

AND if you have been tested positive for the virus you are quarantined, SO, at least in my state the protests have nothing to do with whether the quarantine is lifted or not.

Yeah, but isn't that voluntary quarantine?

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Yeah, but isn't that voluntary quarantine?

No, if you are tested positive it is not a voluntary quarantine.  I suppose because we don't have things in place like Korea to keep track and also to make sure a person in quarantine has everything they need, it is still expected and any reasonable person will follow the quarantine rules.  Its more voluntary than paying the IRS, which is called a voluntary system, so maybe you are correct, but who is going to go to a protest when they feel like crap at the best? (you can't get tested if you don't have a fever and other symptoms unless you work outside your home - that part is new, being able to ask for a test and get it because you have been working outside the home).

Edited by Desertrat56

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Michelle
13 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

it is still expected and any reasonable person will follow the quarantine rules.

Until last week it was expected any reasonable person would follow quarantine rules, allowing cities to start opening in phases. You can spread Covid without having any symptoms at all...which was the whole point.

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RoofGardener
12 hours ago, Gromdor said:

No it not.  Leaders coordinate things.   They aren't an idle pointless figure head. 

hmm... I take your point. I don't think Trump was an "idle pointless figure head", but at the same time I don't think he gave consistent advice in public. (I don't know what he said in private discussions with the governors).  

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Michelle
11 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

hmm... I take your point. I don't think Trump was an "idle pointless figure head", but at the same time I don't think he gave consistent advice in public. (I don't know what he said in private discussions with the governors).  

The CDC is still giving inconsistent advice.

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