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spartan max2

Bill to abolish Qualified Immunity

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)

I have no idea how I feel about this but figured I should share.

Seems to be a bill brought forward due to the protest. 

New Bill Would Abolish Qualified Immunity, Make It Easier To Sue Cops Who Violate Civil Rights

Quote

 

In response to the George Floyd protests, the past few days have seen a surge of police violence, with unprovoked attacks on peaceful demonstrators, journalists, and even people just standing in their own homes. Incredibly, even though there’s clear video evidence for many of these incidents, holding police accountable for their actions is far from a slam dunk. 

A legal rule known as “qualified immunity” often shields police officers and other government officials from being sued by victims and their families, even if the officers violated their civil rights. And since prosecutors are loath to file criminal charges against government agents, suing rogue officers for damages in civil court is often the only recourse available to victims of government abuse. 

 

Quote

But late Sunday night, Congressman Justin Amash (L-MI) revealed that he will introduce the End Qualified Immunity Act, which would eliminate a “permanent procedural roadblock for plaintiffs” that thwarts them from “obtaining damages for having their rights violated.”

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/03/new-bill-would-abolish-qualified-immunity-make-it-easier-to-sue-cops-who-violate-civil-rights/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15913037870303&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fnicksibilla%2F2020%2F06%2F03%2Fnew-bill-would-abolish-qualified-immunity-make-it-easier-to-sue-cops-who-violate-civil-rights%2F

Edited by spartan max2
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Desertrat56

I hope this passes AND that it does solve some problems, not make more problems.  It is a good idea. 

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spartan max2
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I hope this passes AND that it does solve some problems, not make more problems.  It is a good idea. 

I don't really understand it a whole lot.

Why is it a good idea?

 

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't really understand it a whole lot.

Why is it a good idea?

 

Because it is very rare that a cop killing an unarmed person for any reason gets past an internal inquiry and sometimes like the recent on in Minneapolis it actually is murder.  The way the Minneapolis police department reacted by arresting the officer and firing the others involved is unusual.  And the bill includes elected officials as well who often hide behind their position committing crimes.  I know of an incident in El Paso County where a judge and a county clerk were taking money to manipulate the court assignments and they were not even fired (both elected officials) but the underling that they were paying to help them and to keep it quiet went to jail.  I think all 3 of them  should have been in jail.

Edited by Desertrat56
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Jodie.Lynne

The problem arises because we assume, that the Police Officer is a person of virtue, and upholds the concepts of equality and fairness.

What we often forget is that the person BEHIND the badge is a human being.  There are good men & women who wear a shield, and sadly, there are folks who should never have been sworn in.

 Once upon a time, when chosen for jury duty, I was asked by a prosecuting attorney "Would you accept the testimony of a Police Officer, over other statements?"

I replied "It would depend on the testimony of others, and if they were believable. And also on the evidence."  I was dismissed from the case, although the Defense attorney wanted to keep me..

 

Just because a person is a LEO, does NOT absolve them from answering to the Law. There IS systemic prejudice and racism in the system. Anyone who says different, is a moron.

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Jodie.Lynne
24 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't really understand it a whole lot.

Why is it a good idea?

 

It's a good idea, because it makes LEO's accountable for their actions.

 

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and then

The doctrine’s defenders also claim that its abolition would expose police officers to financial ruin, which in turn would disincentivize people from joining the force. But thanks to indemnification by state and local governments, individual officers rarely have to pay out of their own pocket 

Unless LEOs have guarantees of their employer covering them financially when they are accused, it will definitely reduce the numbers of people interested in taking this job on.  We already have fewer people interested so that people like this POS in Minneapolis has to be allowed to hang around.    Maybe these cities should contract with the coming BLM auxiliary armed black protection force.

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the13bats
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

It's a good idea, because it makes LEO's accountable for their actions.

 

257c6b63c49e3f0b8d4f0bd1a7905577.jpg.ea843da3f68b16b097e4eea172c0ec20.jpg

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the13bats
3 minutes ago, and then said:

The doctrine’s defenders also claim that its abolition would expose police officers to financial ruin, which in turn would disincentivize people from joining the force. But thanks to indemnification by state and local governments, individual officers rarely have to pay out of their own pocket 

Unless LEOs have guarantees of their employer covering them financially when they are accused, it will definitely reduce the numbers of people interested in taking this job on.  We already have fewer people interested so that people like this POS in Minneapolis has to be allowed to hang around.    Maybe these cities should contract with the coming BLM auxiliary armed black protection force.

I think it will weed out lazy , incompetent, power tripper dolts who when they see they are responsible for what they do they will go be a stocker at walmart and leave being LEOs to the few good men and women who actually care about the job.

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Buzz_Light_Year

This will lead to a lower class of law enforcement.

Instead of internal reviews on police conduct all reviews need to be done by independent sources.

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Gromdor

I think a bill that holds people accountable to the quality of their work will increase the level of professionalism in any given trade.

 

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hacktorp

How should the cops respond to this?

 

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Gromdor
21 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

How should the cops respond to this?

 

By the applicable laws of that country?   This bill doesn't affect the country this video is from.

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and then
20 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't really understand it a whole lot.

Why is it a good idea?

 

I think it's a reaction to the Minneapolis cop adventure that's causing so much turmoil.  The good members of the city council there seem to be working on defunding or even disbanding the police force, totally.

http://www.citypages.com/news/minneapolis-city-council-members-consider-disbanding-the-police/570993291

“Several of us on the council are working on finding out what it would take to disband the Minneapolis Police Department and start fresh with a community-oriented, nonviolent public safety and outreach capacity,”

This should really be instructive to watch.

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and then
2 hours ago, hacktorp said:

How should the cops respond to this?

Once identified, the perp should be charged with attempted muder of a police officer.  If the officer sees the attack coming he should double tap the attacker.  The council in Minneapolis seem to thing they can appeal to the better angels among those who are rioting and just totally reorganize the popo to be non-violent.  I kind of hope they do it.  There's nothing like seeing fools get their comeuppance.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, and then said:

I think it's a reaction to the Minneapolis cop adventure that's causing so much turmoil.  The good members of the city council there seem to be working on defunding or even disbanding the police force, totally.

http://www.citypages.com/news/minneapolis-city-council-members-consider-disbanding-the-police/570993291

“Several of us on the council are working on finding out what it would take to disband the Minneapolis Police Department and start fresh with a community-oriented, nonviolent public safety and outreach capacity,”

This should really be instructive to watch.

As a social worker I think I can comment on this.

From the article:

Quote

Calls about mental health crises could be answered by mental health professionals. Calls about opioid abuse could be answered by addiction experts. Instead, both get cops, usually armed.

But it’s one thing to think that’s a good idea and another to get it done. The city has “struggled” to put any of these reforms in place in a substantial way, Fletcher says

I actually did research on this very topic during grad school too. 

So it's is definitely true that a large amount of police calls are from people having mental health crisis (psychosis, suicide, self harm, high on drugs, etc).

A lot of these people are repeat callers. We found that the same individuals would call quite frequently.

So the idea that if we could treat people mental health and drug addiction that it would free up police time and a resources is accurate.

In Columbus, we actually try to do something like that called a Mobile Crisis Unit (started over a year ago). A social worker and nurse go out with a cop to respond to these calls.

Which is where I think the article makes the mistake. These type of calls, a social worker couldn't go alone, it's very unsafe. It's people expierencing psychosis, people threanting others with weapons , or threatening to kill themselves, people who are currently high on narcotics.

So while I agree with the sentiment behind the idea I think the idea of decreasing police funding to have social workers respond to these calls wouldn't work in reality. 

Edited by spartan max2
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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, and then said:

Once identified, the perp should be charged with attempted muder of a police officer.  If the officer sees the attack coming he should double tap the attacker.  The council in Minneapolis seem to thing they can appeal to the better angels among those who are rioting and just totally reorganize the popo to be non-violent.  I kind of hope they do it.  There's nothing like seeing fools get their comeuppance.

I don't think you have a good grasp on the issue.

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hacktorp
1 minute ago, and then said:

Once identified, the perp should be charged with attempted muder of a police officer.  If the officer sees the attack coming he should double tap the attacker.  The council in Minneapolis seem to thing they can appeal to the better angels among those who are rioting and just totally reorganize the popo to be non-violent.  I kind of hope they do it.  There's nothing like seeing fools get their comeuppance.

I made a comment yesterday about the Minneapolis City Council attempting to "dismantle" the Mpls Police Department.  It got removed because, I guess, my reference to the Muslim Brotherhood was too much for sensitive eyes.

Yet, today, everywhere I look (outside UM), I'm seeing alarmed people talking about a Minneapolis move toward Sharia-law type law enforcement.  Even Ilhan Omar has weighed-in, supporting the "re-imagining" of Minneapolis law enforcement.

I think the Ellisons (father and son) will be arrested for their connections to MB and Antifa.  When that happens, Minneapolis will come under federal-controlled martial law.

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Desertrat56
3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

I made a comment yesterday about the Minneapolis City Council attempting to "dismantle" the Mpls Police Department.  It got removed because, I guess, my reference to the Muslim Brotherhood was too much for sensitive eyes.

Yet, today, everywhere I look (outside UM), I'm seeing alarmed people talking about a Minneapolis move toward Sharia-law type law enforcement.  Even Ilhan Omar has weighed-in, supporting the "re-imagining" of Minneapolis law enforcement.

I think the Ellisons (father and son) will be arrested for their connections to MB and Antifa.  When that happens, Minneapolis will come under federal-controlled martial law.

There is no way that Minneapolis is going to dismantle the police department Nor would they move towards Sharia-law type law enforcement.  Someone has spread a rumor and it has gone viral.  Why don't you do some fact checking before you jump on the band wagon of something so ridiculous.   The Minneapolis police force is the first one in decades of these kinds of incidents that has responded correctly by arresting the murderer inspite of him being a cop.  They are taking a strong stance and there is no rational reason anyone would think the police department is being dismantled.  Congress is being presented with a bill to change immunity when people in public position take advantage of that position.  It has nothing to do with anything Minneapolis city council is doing.

You and @and then live in a very strange world.  Don't you feel the cognitive dissonance?

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hacktorp
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There is no way that Minneapolis is going to dismantle the police department

What do you think Jeremiah Ellison meant when he tweeted this?

Quote
We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. And when we’re done, we’re not simply gonna glue it back together. We are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety and emergency response. It’s really past due.

 

Edited by hacktorp
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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

What do you think Jeremiah Ellison meant when he tweeted this?

 

I don't see a mention of sharia law in that tweet.  I suspect he meant there will be re-organization, better training and better accountability, not no police.  But you can interpret it any way you want and spread any rumors you want.  Just don't get bothered when someone calls you on it.

Edited by Desertrat56
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hacktorp
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't see a mention of sharia law in that tweet

No, you see a pledge to "dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department".  You know, the very thing you claimed was "no way" going to happen.

Hope you're not bothered someone called you on it.

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Buzz_Light_Year

What they'll end up doing is neuter the police department and you'll end up with overpaid crossing guards.

Quote

Several members of the Minneapolis City Council this week have expressed support for drastic overhauls to the way the city handles law enforcement, ranging from calls to defund the department, to suggestions that social workers, medics or mental health professionals should be sent to some calls currently handled by police. 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/501321-members-of-minneapolis-city-council-vow-to-dismantle-police

That's going to work out so well for.....................thugs.

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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

No, you see a pledge to "dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department".  You know, the very thing you claimed was "no way" going to happen.

Hope you're not bothered someone called you on it.

Maybe you could look up what dismantle means.  Also it said "we are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety".  That still doesn't mean what you have been implying.

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hacktorp
2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe you could look up what dismantle means.  Also it said "we are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety".  That still doesn't mean what you have been implying.

Yeah...I know what it means.  Do you?

Also, you apparently know exactly what "we are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety" means.  Can you tell us?

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