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zep73

US police most lethal & Chauvin bail $1.25M

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susieice
Just now, Hankenhunter said:

Would the bail money be forfeited if Chauvin offs himself? It is escaping justice after all. 

I don't know. Epstein was denied bail as he was thought a flight risk. Best I can do is Google and this links says no. The case is determined closed. That's what happened in Epstein's case also.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-a-person-gets-out-on-bail-or-bond-and-commits-s-1554068.html

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freetoroam
1 minute ago, aztek said:

i think he still believes judge will either acquit him, or give him very light sentence, 

Huh? Where are you getting this from? How could he possibly think that, especially with that amount of bail? 

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Jarocal
1 minute ago, Piney said:

In New Jersey they have a special prison for cops and lawyers. 

They have one for minorities and the poor also, they call it general pop...

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Piney
Just now, Jarocal said:

If he does post bail, then skips bond for his next court appearance by committing suicide, which should forfeit it, would that possibly show as a net profit for the taxpayer?

What are you doing here? There is a 'Ancient Aliens' Apache Cave thread to address!!!  :angry:

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Piney
Just now, Jarocal said:

They have one for minorities and the poor also, they call it general pop...

I was in the Bloods, MS-13 and Latin Kings unit because they are the gangs all the Injuns are in. :yes:

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aztek
Just now, freetoroam said:

Huh? Where are you getting this from? How could he possibly think that, especially with that amount of bail? 

from what has happened in similar cases before

2 minutes ago, susieice said:

I don't know. Epstein was denied bail as he was thought a flight risk. Best I can do is Google and this links says no. The case is determined closed. That's what happened in Epstein's case also.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-a-person-gets-out-on-bail-or-bond-and-commits-s-1554068.html

epstin was a very different case, he was a threat to people in  very high places, he could expose very powerfull people, i think he was denied bail purposly to keep him in jial, so they can kill him

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Jarocal
1 minute ago, Piney said:

What are you doing here? There is a 'Ancient Aliens' Apache Cave thread to address!!!  :angry:

Apache were not cave dwelling Morlocks. They utilized recyclable products in biodegradable shelters which need rebuilt intermittently and fared better against the elements than the clumsy wattle and daub shelters employed by the Ealry European barbarians who invaded the western hemisphere.

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susieice
8 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Would the bail money be forfeited if Chauvin offs himself? It is escaping justice after all. 

This is the only other link I can find and it's mostly opinion. It says:

 https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550715

When a case is no longer pending bail cannot be forfeited. Charges generally die with a defendant, so the effect is the same as if the charges are dropped. 

I know Epstein's charges were dismissed right after his death. There was no bail involved though.

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Jarocal
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

I was in the Bloods, MS-13 and Latin Kings unit because they are the gangs all the Injuns are in. :yes:

You forgot to mention the Loco Lenape Legion amongst those groups...

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Jarocal
1 minute ago, susieice said:

This is the only other link I can find and it's mostly opinion. It says:

 https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550715

When a case is no longer pending bail cannot be forfeited. Charges generally die with a defendant, so the effect is the same as if the charges are dropped. 

I know Epstein's charges were dismissed right after his death. There was no bail involved though.

Maybe that policy should be changed as a defendant may be less likely to commit suicide if it meant the forfeiture of a substantial amount on whomever helped them post bail.

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susieice
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

from what has happened in similar cases before

epstin was a very different case, he was a threat to people in  very high places, he could expose very powerfull people, i think he was denied bail purposly to keep him in jial, so they can kill him

I'm referring mostly to the suicide part. His death is questionable, but his denial of bail isn't. He was a lot more likely to come up with it.

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zep73
11 minutes ago, aztek said:

i think he still believes judge will either acquit him, or give him very light sentence, police union will fight for him, since it happened while he was a cop he has a right to request bench trial aka no jury trial, judge only

If the judge does that, he's practically starting a civil war. Would any judge of sound mind do that? I think not.

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susieice
1 minute ago, Jarocal said:

Maybe that policy should be changed as a defendant may be less likely to commit suicide if it meant the forfeiture of a substantial amount on whomever helped them post bail.

I think Chauvin should have been denied bail altogether.

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Jarocal
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, susieice said:

I think Chauvin should have been denied bail altogether.

I do not personally disagree as others charged with a far less degree of crimes have been denied bail for flight risk or danger to society reasons when their potential punishment was exponentially less and the perceived "danger" far less lower than one he is already accused of homicide...

Edited by Jarocal
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freetoroam
3 minutes ago, susieice said:

I don't know. Epstein was denied bail as he was thought a flight risk. Best I can do is Google and this links says no. The case is determined closed. That's what happened in Epstein's case also.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-a-person-gets-out-on-bail-or-bond-and-commits-s-1554068.html

A couple of conflicting answers there.

If someone commits suicide, they have technically failed to turn up to court, especially as they have been charged, so should not be refunded. 

In England and America, you are innocent until proven guilty, so a dead person can not be found  guilty. Look at Fred West,  it was obvious he was guilty and the only way he would ever leave prison was in a wooden box, as it happens, that is what happened, but before the trial. 

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susieice
4 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

I do not personally disagree as others charged with a far less degree of crimes have been denied bail for flight risk or danger to society reasons when their potential punishment was exponentially less and the perceived "danger" far less lower than one he is already accused of homicide...

I don't know why the judge decided to grant bail. I can't answer for them. The last I heard Chauvin was in a state prison on suicide watch. If you ask me, that was a good place for him until he came to trial.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, susieice said:

I'm referring mostly to the suicide part. His death is questionable, but his denial of bail isn't. He was a lot more likely to come up with it.

i can be mistaken on dates,, but cuomo's bail reform abolished bail in nys, it was either they let him walk, or keep him, as of now there is not such thing as bail in ny state. 

Edited by aztek
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susieice
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

A couple of conflicting answers there.

If someone commits suicide, they have technically failed to turn up to court, especially as they have been charged, so should not be refunded. 

In England and America, you are innocent until proven guilty, so a dead person can not be found  guilty. Look at Fred West,  it was obvious he was guilty and the only way he would ever leave prison was in a wooden box, as it happens, that is what happened, but before the trial. 

It appears to be a site of opinion. If someone commits suicide the charges are dropped and a trial doesn't take place. They're dead. I think they may be why there could be no forfeiture. I can't find a good site to answer this question.

Edited by susieice
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susieice
5 minutes ago, aztek said:

i can be mistaken on dates,, but cuomo's bail reform abolished bail in nys, it was either they let him walk, or keep him, as of now there is not such thing as bail in ny state. 

States can differ depending on what their laws are.

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freetoroam
13 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

Maybe that policy should be changed as a defendant may be less likely to commit suicide if it meant the forfeiture of a substantial amount on whomever helped them post bail.

I think by the time  they mentally intend to commit suicide, they are not going to be thinking about staying alive to attend court so the family or friend gets their money back.

The reason for committing suicide is to not attend the trial as they know the results will not be good. They are thinking about what their life will be like in prison, attending the trial and the bail being refunded is not going to make life in prison any easier for them.

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Jarocal
4 minutes ago, susieice said:

I don't know why the judge decided to grant bail. I can't answer for them. The last I heard Chauvin was in a state prison on suicide watch. If you ask me, that was a good place for him until he came to trial.

I can think of two valid reasons he would want to be on suicide watch voluntarily. 

1) he is a cop in jail awaiting trial for a heinous crime and won't find many fellow inmates sympathetic to his innocent before proven guilty plight.

2) like Epstein he used to pal around with the Clintons Trump, and other elites that may now consider him an inconvenient loose end.

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freetoroam
2 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

I can think of two valid reasons he would want to be on suicide watch voluntarily. 

1)

2) like Epstein he used to pal around with the Clintons Trump, and other elites that may now consider him an inconvenient loose end.

Lol, you are not serious on number 2?

.

.

Are you? :o

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Jarocal
2 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

I think by the time  they mentally intend to commit suicide, they are not going to be thinking about staying alive to attend court so the family or friend gets their money back.

The reason for committing suicide is to not attend the trial as they know the results will not be good. They are thinking about what their life will be like in prison, attending the trial and the bail being refunded is not going to make life in prison any easier for them.

Possibly not, but the knowledge that it will inflict a grievous potentially irreparable burden on family who posted everything up as bail may deter some from taking the easy way out.

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Jarocal
1 minute ago, freetoroam said:

Lol, you are not serious on number 2?

.

.

Are you? :o

You don't think that may be a valid reason he would feel a need to voluntarily be on suicide watch?

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zep73
Just now, Jarocal said:

You don't think that may be a valid reason he would feel a need to voluntarily be on suicide watch?

I think it's the socializing with Clinton's and Trump's that got in the wrong throat...

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