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Statues Honouring British Imperialism


TigerBright19
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Should Statues Honouring British Imperialism be Removed?  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Statues that Honour British Imperialism remain ?

    • Yes, they should remain
      34
    • No, they should be removed
      11


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2 minutes ago, Piney said:

@Desertrat56  

Benedict Arnold was just like Lee, a hero prior to being a traitor. 

Are there any statues of him?  

Right, no, just his name being used as a denegration.   That is the problem with historical figures, we only get the stories that the winners of wars tell in the history books.  And Benedict Arnold did not serve an agenda like the name of Rober E. Lee did.

 

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Just now, Desertrat56 said:

And Benedict Arnold did not serve an agenda like the name of Rober E. Lee did.

Which was to enforce Jim Crow. 

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38 minutes ago, odas said:

Thinking a bit deeper and reading both, pro and contra posts, we really opened a can of worms. Guess we all have our ghosts in our closets.

Conclusion: our human history is completely efd up. May Ahura Mazda help us all.

A full accounting should be rendered. It is available but not taught.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

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2 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

If the statues of these "imperialists" are to be torn down, then surely it should not just be the "boots on the ground", but statues of those at the highest level of society, including Queen Victoria. Decrying Rhodes and removing him without touching Victoria would be like attacking Rheinhard Heydrich but leaving Hitler alone.

Oh, missed this on the news two days ago Statue of Queen Victoria attacked in Leeds I wonder if local police bent the knee to the wreckers...

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the funny thing is a majority of those on the front line trying to demolish,pull down and deface statues actually do not know any of the history surrounding the person/statue...

reminds me of the recent video of the guy walking around asking white people to take the knee in protest against the racist murder of Floyd Mayweather - and yes you guessed it a majority simply knelt down.....

:lol:

 

Edited by quillius
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Have they pulled down Rocky's statue in Philly yet, after all he beat up a couple of black guys.

Then we can dismantle what is left of ancient Rome because slavery was rife and helped build the empire.

It won't stop at statues, its only the beginning and these cretins need stomping on now.

Defacing the Cenotaph and Churchill's statue is a disgrace, men and women of all colours died to give these a******* the ability to protest in a peaceful manner, not behave like the vermin they are.

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16 hours ago, Aaron2017 said:

What are your opinions?  Do you regard the statues as heroic symbols which respect the officers and soldiers who sacrificed their lives for the greater good of the Empire, or do you regard them as symbols of British rule and acts of oppression? 

 

 

imperial1.png

 

Depends where they are located - place them in Britain they may well be acceptable to the locals. But they have no place in 'freed' colonies, they should have their own statutes no need to take or retain imperial ones. 

Edited by RAyMO
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Funny how the mob don't put themselves forward to be elected. 

another 166 migrants arrived yesterday via the English Channel. all young adult ethnic minority men. all illegal trafficked, and no doubt used in slave labour to help pay for their crossing.

Why isn't the mob over there in France tackling modern day slavery. fronting and taking on the traffickers as they do with the British Police.

this is why we know its nothing to do with black lives matter. its the sinister underbelly of society anarchists.

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47 minutes ago, susieice said:

A full accounting should be rendered. It is available but not taught.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

It's not only slavery what I think about but yes, the white man is not the only one at fault in this case. The past devides in three points:

History

Legends

Myths

History is data based on facts, which should accurately reflect a happening in the past.

 Legends are more or less fictions with some accurate atributes.

Myths are unproven tales with no historical background.

I don't worry about Legends and Myths. I do worry if the History is inacurate and tailored to specific agendas.

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3 hours ago, Piney said:

Seeing the American Democrats in Ashanti kente was hilarious! Especially since the Ashanti were more the sellers than the sellies!! :lol:

On another note nobody brings up the fact that the Coastal Algonquian were raided and sold as slaves by the Marylanders and Puritans among others. 

 

There were slaves from all over the world.  Before the british went to africa to get slaves to sell, they were knocking poor people in the head in London and Dublin and loading them on ships and selling them as slaves.  A lot of the caribean islands have descendants of Irish slaves as well as African slaves.  And what about all the people the Romans & Greeks enslaved from all over the world.  If you want to get in and dig around deep, probably more people have slave ancestors than you would imagine, however, that is not really the conversation in this thread.

I recommend a documentary that Bela Fleck did called Throw Down your Heart.  It was his search for the origin of the banjo but it included the history of slavery in some parts of Africa as well.

 

Edited by Desertrat56
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4 minutes ago, odas said:

It's not only slavery what I think about but yes, the white man is not the only one at fault in this case. The past devides in three points:

History

Legends

Myths

History is data based on facts, which should accurately reflect a happening in the past.

 Legends are more or less fictions with some accurate atributes.

Myths are unproven tales with no historical background.

I don't worry about Legends and Myths. I do worry if the History is inacurate and tailored to specific agendas.

The ancient Egyptians raiding the Nubians and enslaving them is well recorded throughout dynasties of Egyptian art and writings.

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I do agree that the statues of Julius Caesar should be taken down: an imperialist if ever there was one, and one who enslaved thousands of Britons to boot, as well as being responsible for other atrocities.

Odd no-one mentions him?

Most of the "controversial" statues are at least of people who did a great deal of good with their wealth, acquired quite legally at the time, regardless how we feel about it today.

btw it took the combined efforts of Britain, the USA, Holland, Spain and France to finally end the enslavement of white Europeans.   Just 200 years ago.    Is it right that a character in Dr Who, described as a friend of the Doctor, is named after those slavers?  The Corsair .....

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14 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There were slaves from all over the world.  Before the british went to africa to get slaves to sell, they were knocking poor people in the head in London and Dublin and loading them on ships and selling them as slaves.  A lot of the caribean islands have descendants of Irish slaves as well as African slaves.  And what about all the people the Romans & Greeks enslaved from all over the world.  If you want to get in and dig around deep, probably more people have slave ancestors than you would imagine, however, that is not really the conversation in this thread.

I recommend a documentary that Bela Fleck did called Throw Down your Heart.  It was his search for the origin of the banjo but it included the history of slavery in some parts of Africa as well.

 

Dont forget all the English captured by the Irish and sold as slaves - a practice that only ended with the Norman invasion in the 12th century

As for Africa slaves, it's been suggested that nearly twice as many Africans were taken as slaves by Arabs as by Europeans (the Arabs also took white Europeans as slaves, up to the 19th century)  And of course, who was it who sold many of the African slaves in the first place?  ;)   

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1 minute ago, Essan said:

Dont forget all the English captured by the Irish and sold as slaves - a practice that only ended with the Norman invasion in the 12th century

As for Africa slaves, it's been suggested that nearly twice as many Africans were taken as slaves by Arabs as by Europeans (the Arabs also took white Europeans as slaves, up to the 19th century)  And of course, who was it who sold many of the African slaves in the first place?  ;)   

Right, we could go on ad nauseum listing who enslaved whom when but what is the point.  This thread was about taking down statues.

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3 hours ago, Piney said:

Seeing the American Democrats in Ashanti kente was hilarious! Especially since the Ashanti were more the sellers than the sellies!! :lol:

On another note nobody brings up the fact that the Coastal Algonquian were raided and sold as slaves by the Marylanders and Puritans among others. 

 

Have you seen how US Media is calling it. No mention of the slave selling market they ran.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sethcohen/2020/06/09/pelosi-and-schumers-fashion-fail-the-problem-with-white-people-wearing-kente/#524ceb795bb0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa

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Just now, susieice said:

Have you seen how US Media is calling it. No mention of the slave selling market they ran.

I remember Oprah announcing to them she was one of them and they told her *No, we sold your ancestors* :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Right, we could go on ad nauseum listing who enslaved whom when but what is the point.  This thread was about taking down statues.

I was under impression that some people think that existence of slavery throughout history and around the world should mean that the particular slave owner whose statue was finally removed didn't do anything wrong. 

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2 minutes ago, Piney said:

I remember Oprah announcing to them she was one of them and they told her *No, we sold your ancestors* :lol:

No mention of this now. The Ashanti were the worse.

https://www.pbs.org/wonders/Episodes/Epi3/3_wondr1.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti_Empire

Slavery was historically a tradition in the Ashanti Empire, with slaves typically taken as captives from enemies in warfare. The welfare of their slaves varied from being able to acquire wealth and intermarry with the master's family to being sacrificed in funeral ceremonies. The Ashanti believed that slaves would follow their masters into the afterlife. Slaves could sometimes own other slaves, and could also request a new master if the slave believed he or she was being severely mistreated.[20][21]

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6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I was under impression that some people think that existence of slavery throughout history and around the world should mean that the particular slave owner whose statue was finally removed didn't do anything wrong. 

The whole truth!!!!

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14 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Right, we could go on ad nauseum listing who enslaved whom when but what is the point.  This thread was about taking down statues.

It should involve telling the truth.

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1 minute ago, susieice said:

The whole truth!!!!

What is the whole truth, in a whole sentence, or few of them, if you don't mind?

That one slave owner didn't do anything wrong, since there were others too? And that we should accept that savagery today too, because ancient Egyptians were accepting it? Or? What?   

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11 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I was under impression that some people think that existence of slavery throughout history and around the world should mean that the particular slave owner whose statue was finally removed didn't do anything wrong. 

The removal of the statue wasn't wrong or the slave owner wasn't wrong?  I missed that.  I think we all agree slavery is wrong, if anyone wants to justify it that is their problem.  It is a fact of human history and if the only reason to take down a statue would be because that person was a slave owner then I guess that is relevant to the thread, but that is not what all those statues were about.  There were a lot more heinous things associated with most of them so I don't think this thread is about slavery.

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