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New show to cover iconic alien abduction case

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'Walt' E. Kurtz

Why did i read Betty hill as benny hill? 

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jowasmus
3 hours ago, 'Walt' E. Kurtz said:

Why did i read Betty hill as benny hill? 

I can't say for sure, but I do the exact same thing sometimes.

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diddyman68
6 hours ago, 'Walt' E. Kurtz said:

Why did i read Betty hill as benny hill? 

every time i hear their names,i think of barney and betty rubble.

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bison

A close reading of John Fuller's seminal book, 'The Interrupted Journey', on the Betty and Barney Hill alleged alien abduction case reveals several contradictions in their narratives. Betty Hill  sometimes contradicts what Barney Hill relates, and vice versa. Most of these details were recovered by hypnosis, which is by no means a consistently reliable method of getting at the truth. 

I suspect that 'alien abductions' could be something like our era's version of witchcraft hysteria. Maybe only the time and cultural context are different.

Did something unusual happen to stimulate the Hill's initial impression that something strange had happened to them? Possibly. Their psychiatrist, Dr. Simon gave the case a relatively mundane interpretation. For all we know, the Hills could have had a genuine UFO sighting, which somehow precipitated a psychological crisis, which was then deepened when  they underwent hypnosis. A very tangled web. 

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Hazzard
51 minutes ago, bison said:

A close reading of John Fuller's seminal book, 'The Interrupted Journey', on the Betty and Barney Hill alleged alien abduction case reveals several contradictions in their narratives. Betty Hill  sometimes contradicts what Barney Hill relates, and vice versa. Most of these details were recovered by hypnosis, which is by no means a consistently reliable method of getting at the truth. 

I suspect that 'alien abductions' could be something like our era's version of witchcraft hysteria. Maybe only the time and cultural context are different.

Did something unusual happen to stimulate the Hill's initial impression that something strange had happened to them? Possibly. Their psychiatrist, Dr. Simon gave the case a relatively mundane interpretation. For all we know, the Hills could have had a genuine UFO sighting, which somehow precipitated a psychological crisis, which was then deepened when  they underwent hypnosis. A very tangled web. 

On February 22, 1964 Barney Hill first described in a hypno-regression the aliens that he encountered. Twelve days before that date an episode of THE OUTER LIMITS called "the Bellero Shield" featured the exact same aliens, the same facial features, features with wrap around eyes, which other "contactees" had not seen until then. 

The grey aliens described by Betty Hill years after her expereince bear a striking resemblance to the aliens seen in an episode of TWILIGHT ZONE called "Hocus Pocus and Frisby" that aired in 1962.

Even the psychiatrist that examined and hypnotized the Hills was convinced that their story was fantasy, a fact suppressed by Look magazine and by the book The Interrupted Journey. 

And about the Star Map... Its so easy to take a few dots drawn on paper, for which you have to assume the exact distances and spatial relationships have not been preserved, and match them with any number of possible stars in the sky. 

Carl Sagan showed how meaningless the "star map" was. A random selection of dots was just as accurate as Bettys map.


So, as always when it comes to these "abductions" there was no physical evidence, and we have only the eyewitness testimony of the Hills that there was an abduction in the first place.


I dont know about you guys, but when it comes to this type of claims, I need more than just a story well told. 

Edited by Hazzard
who cares
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the13bats

I wonder why they picked a well debunked case where all the players are passed.

I studied this case but it falls apart under scrutiny, let me start with i believe most cases start with a stimuli but that might be a light in the sky, an episode of outer limits or even the idea of $$$ ( cue travis walton )

A few highlights from B&B hills case, betty was a long time eccentric who believed in aliens coming here. Betty orginally described her aliens as looking like jimmy durante until that outer limits episode aired, betty forced barney to listen to her read her well embellished writtings of the even, early records show barney only saw a light he thought was a plane but betty forced her beliefs on him.

And look up what an alien believer kevin randall says about betty, i will paraphase but he blew her off as being a loon saying when he went out with her at night she thought even street lights was a mothership landing.

It goes on and on, so a show will be well cherry picked to make it entertaining but not based in case facts, or will TV shock me?

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astrobeing
15 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I wonder why they picked a well debunked case where all the players are passed.

One thing I've noticed is that some of the classic U.F.O. stories I enjoyed as a child in the 1970's have been altered and embellished over the decades. Now that they're more easily scrutinized by a large number of people, so it looks like proponents have been revising the original stories so they can't be as easily explained. One example is the Kelly-Hopskinville encounter. Some stories now say the "aliens" wore shiny suits so they couldn't have been owls, but older books don't mention this detail at all.

There are lots of holes in the Barney and Betty abduction, so maybe someone is going to take another shot at closing them up with "new" details.

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the13bats
4 hours ago, astrobeing said:

One thing I've noticed is that some of the classic U.F.O. stories I enjoyed as a child in the 1970's have been altered and embellished over the decades. Now that they're more easily scrutinized by a large number of people, so it looks like proponents have been revising the original stories so they can't be as easily explained. One example is the Kelly-Hopskinville encounter. Some stories now say the "aliens" wore shiny suits so they couldn't have been owls, but older books don't mention this detail at all.

There are lots of holes in the Barney and Betty abduction, so maybe someone is going to take another shot at closing them up with "new" details.

257c6b63c49e3f0b8d4f0bd1a7905577.jpg.ea843da3f68b16b097e4eea172c0ec20.jpg

I hear you, i was also a 70s brat, Hopskinville is a personal favorite and i have seen the countless revampings, almost every version is a a bit different,  the "orginal reports" show the sheriff wasnt inpressed at all,

Look at mothman, the "orginal reports" not what my favorite eccentric wanna be beatniks babbling book embelished it into, its only real difference to an almost forgotten tale the dover demon is mothman had great writers and more contagion.

"Orginal reports" ( to the sheriff) even show roswell was nothing but weather balloon with radar target wreckage, yet me saying that always gets the dear believers who never did that extra research breaking out the tar and feathers for me.

Sure, i imagine the new show with be geared at epic new evidence proving  everything b&b hill claimed

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astrobeing
14 hours ago, the13bats said:

I hear you, i was also a 70s brat, Hopskinville is a personal favorite and i have seen the countless revampings, almost every version is a a bit different,  the "orginal reports" show the sheriff wasnt inpressed at all,

I was going through my old UFO books and it looks like the shiny suits element was added in Valee's Passport to Magnonia (1969). There is an unexplained photo of a model of the "Hopkinsville entity" which looks like a stuffed toy with eyes glued on it and wrapped in aluminum foil. The caption says, "A model based on drawings by witnesses questioned by the U.S. Air Force." I don't remember them saying anything about them wearing shiny spacesuits before this. Note that people began reporting aliens wearing spacesuits after photos of astronauts in spacesuits began appearing in the sixties, so apparently someone felt the owl creatures needed an upgrade.

14 hours ago, the13bats said:

Look at mothman, the "orginal reports" not what my favorite eccentric wanna be beatniks babbling book embelished it into, its only real difference to an almost forgotten tale the dover demon is mothman had great writers and more contagion.

The Mothman Prophecies was the scariest and most fascinating UFO book of the time. We now know that Keel was hopping onto the Ancient Astronauts craze that was selling millions of books not to mention movies and TV shows. He found the Mothman article, created a completely fictionalized account of his investigation of it, recycled his ridiculous UFO theories from his book Operation Trojan Horse, and turned it into a UFO classic. People still believe everything in the book really happened when a little research shows that he made the whole thing up.

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D.Lokey

So when will this be out?

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the13bats
9 hours ago, astrobeing said:

I was going through my old UFO books and it looks like the shiny suits element was added in Valee's Passport to Magnonia (1969). There is an unexplained photo of a model of the "Hopkinsville entity" which looks like a stuffed toy with eyes glued on it and wrapped in aluminum foil. The caption says, "A model based on drawings by witnesses questioned by the U.S. Air Force." I don't remember them saying anything about them wearing shiny spacesuits before this. Note that people began reporting aliens wearing spacesuits after photos of astronauts in spacesuits began appearing in the sixties, so apparently someone felt the owl creatures needed an upgrade.

The Mothman Prophecies was the scariest and most fascinating UFO book of the time. We now know that Keel was hopping onto the Ancient Astronauts craze that was selling millions of books not to mention movies and TV shows. He found the Mothman article, created a completely fictionalized account of his investigation of it, recycled his ridiculous UFO theories from his book Operation Trojan Horse, and turned it into a UFO classic. People still believe everything in the book really happened when a little research shows that he made the whole thing up.

Keels mothman book was about 15% mothman as there wasnt much to that story, keel rambles on about his phone being bugged with cigarette loads and odd unsubstantiated claims of odd experiences that dont really mean anything.

This was an orginal pic of mothman,

mothman.jpg.6ec4ae222d0c9e78ce15c5339c9b1954.jpg

A great likeness to an angry owl,

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D.Lokey

To me it does look like an angry Owl. 

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the13bats
6 minutes ago, D.Lokey said:

To me it does look like an angry Owl. 

Right, and its an early sketch of the alleged mothman, if you go pull up a story called "dover demon" that basically mothman without a publicists.

 

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Gwynbleidd
4 hours ago, the13bats said:

Keels mothman book was about 15% mothman as there wasnt much to that story, keel rambles on about his phone being bugged with cigarette loads and odd unsubstantiated claims of odd experiences that dont really mean anything.

This was an orginal pic of mothman,

mothman.jpg.6ec4ae222d0c9e78ce15c5339c9b1954.jpg

A great likeness to an angry owl,

OMG at first glance I thought that was a headless man with bright red nipples.  

Thankfully, I read onwards, thanks Batty :lol:

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the13bats
1 minute ago, Gwynbleidd said:

OMG at first glance I thought that was a headless man with bright red nipples.  

Thankfully, I read onwards, thanks Batty :lol:

Didnt you say that same line last time i posted this? Someone did ;)

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astrobeing
14 hours ago, the13bats said:

Keels mothman book was about 15% mothman as there wasnt much to that story, keel rambles on about his phone being bugged with cigarette loads and odd unsubstantiated claims of odd experiences that dont really mean anything.

He was recycling and expanding stuff from his earlier books UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse and Our Haunted Planet. I'm sure during this period he saw those big bucks Van Daniken was making from Chariots of the Gods and figured he could get in on that racket. His earlier books were in the typical Chariots of the Gods style of listing supposed mysteries and proposing ridiculous explanations, but Mothman put Keel (fictionally) right in the middle of everything. This was a brilliant idea because it gave the story a beginning and an end and made every crazy thing sound completely real.

You have to give credit to Keel for insisting it all really happened to the day he died, and most of the articles about the book when the movie came out in 2002 were still claiming that it all really happened. That should tell you how the Betty and Barney Hill thing is going to be handled.

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the13bats
1 hour ago, astrobeing said:

He was recycling and expanding stuff from his earlier books UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse and Our Haunted Planet. I'm sure during this period he saw those big bucks Van Daniken was making from Chariots of the Gods and figured he could get in on that racket. His earlier books were in the typical Chariots of the Gods style of listing supposed mysteries and proposing ridiculous explanations, but Mothman put Keel (fictionally) right in the middle of everything. This was a brilliant idea because it gave the story a beginning and an end and made every crazy thing sound completely real.

You have to give credit to Keel for insisting it all really happened to the day he died, and most of the articles about the book when the movie came out in 2002 were still claiming that it all really happened. That should tell you how the Betty and Barney Hill thing is going to be handled.

You reply as if you believe im not well familiar with keels work, mothman the book was a waste of a read, it droned on not unlike Patrick Bateman giving a undeserved sense of self worth review of huey Lewis newest album. It might have been keels plan to be the focus at the time but imho it failed the average reader couldnt follow keel as they could Daniken hense why denni had a major film at the time and is well known and keel is largely forgotten.

The 02 movie was just claptrap for $$$, it was a hodge podge, it was vaugely  based on the folklore as much or more than keels book like tacking on indrid cold when that fraud had nothing to do with keel and even the forward he wrote for Derenbergers book he didnt actually endorse it was a real event,  Keels health was so bad by the movie time he had coleman take the lead in the movies promo documentary,

Colemans smirking chuckle when he replies in relation to claims of men in black harassing mothman witnesses, to the effect, i have no idea why anyone wouldnt want people talking about mothman, thats a good question.

My takeaway was he thought it was bunk and was calling out several people.

 

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astrobeing
3 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You reply as if you believe im not well familiar with keels work,

It sure didn't sound like you were. Did you mention Operation Trojan Horse or Our Haunted Planet? These books are important if you want to understand how Keel developed the story in Mothman Prophecies.

3 minutes ago, the13bats said:

mothman the book was a waste of a read, it droned on not unlike Patrick Bateman giving a undeserved sense of self worth review of huey Lewis newest album. It might have been keels plan to be the focus at the time but imho it failed the average reader couldnt follow keel as they could Daniken hense why denni had a major film at the time and is well known and keel is largely forgotten.

I guess I and my friends must have been very exceptional ten year old boys because we had no problem following the story in The Mothman Prophecies. Nearly everyone I met in college ten years later had read the book or was familiar with it. That's why they made a major motion picture starring Richard Gere based on the book fifteen years after that which was more successful than the dull German Chariots of the Gods "documentary" that no one remembers. In fact no one I met in college had even heard of Chariots of the Gods, probably because it had been dismissed and debunked in the late 70's and had become a punchline to a bad joke ("Ancient astronauts?")

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the13bats
49 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

It sure didn't sound like you were. Did you mention Operation Trojan Horse or Our Haunted Planet? These books are important if you want to understand how Keel developed the story in Mothman Prophecies.

I guess I and my friends must have been very exceptional ten year old boys because we had no problem following the story in The Mothman Prophecies. Nearly everyone I met in college ten years later had read the book or was familiar with it. That's why they made a major motion picture starring Richard Gere based on the book fifteen years after that which was more successful than the dull German Chariots of the Gods "documentary" that no one remembers. In fact no one I met in college had even heard of Chariots of the Gods, probably because it had been dismissed and debunked in the late 70's and had become a punchline to a bad joke ("Ancient astronauts?")

Just as i thought about you, Your arrogance is not knowledge, i need not pound my chest with everything ive read, seen or done,  ill leave you with your wrong opinions and delusional ideas.

Now ...

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