Atlanta Wendy's shooting video released

[acidhead]

 

[+susieice]

The incident.

https://www.kmov.com/news/atlanta-man-shot-killed-during-struggle-with-police-over-taser-in-wendys-parking-lot/article_91a29073-f42f-565f-8df1-69f404b9b6cf.html

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/man-shot-killed-during-struggle-with-officer-over-taser-wendys-gbi-says/25FF4PNJNBBA7MBKXBPA34ETUE/

[thedutchiedutch]

I just watched a video on the web taken by a family from inside their vehicle at Wendy's. The video shows a struggle between 2 officers and the man killed. At one point the man killed get's the upper hand, grabs one of the officers taser, stands up while fighting off the officers, the man get's tasered by the other officer but managed to run away with the taser and at one point the man, while running away, turns his arm and points the taser at the officer, gun shots are heard and the man hits the ground. 

I understand that the officers were responding to a complaint of a man in a vehicle parked in the drive-thru who was asleep, causing customers to drive around the vehicle. After the man failed a field sobriety test, the officers attempted to place the man into custody but he resisted. On the video you can clearly see both officers struggling to hand cuff the man leading to one of the officers to deploy a Taser. The man manage to resist, grabs a taser from one of the officers, stands up fighting off the officers and runs off. 

Very sad. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by thedutchiedutch

[Kittens Are Jerks]

And the use of lethal force was necessary why exactly? 

Oh sure I can see why one might want to take the easy way out, but if you're going to shoot someone under those circumstances, why not simply shoot to incapacitate, rather than kill? Indeed, why not first make an effort to somehow de-escalate the situation? The officers knew it was a taser, not a gun. Their lives were not in imminent risk.

 

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Their lives were not in imminent risk.

Cops are just human, too.  They don't have the luxury of knowing ahead of time how things will unfold.  This man was heavily intoxicated and had already overcome one of them enough to grab his taser.  Cops are not trained to use their weapons to wound.  Despite the silliness we see in the entertainment world, shooting a suspect in a nonvital area is NOT an easy thing to do and it can still end with a dead cop.  When using a handgun, the rule is to shoot for center-mass and to keep shooting until the threat is DOWN.  

The reality of that job is that every time they engage with the public, they risk their lives.  If the kind of protests we are seeing now, continue to cause city governments to treat cops like criminals then there will be no cops.  I've said it before but it bears repeating - take away that thin blue line and we will quickly discover just how dark a world we live in.  The spread of lawlessness is a cancer and America is beginning to see its metastasis.  

[+susieice]

When will people learn their cell phones are very seldom the only cameras around anymore. This is from Wendy's surveillance cameras. Atlanta's Mayor acknowledged the existence of the video that clearly shows Brooks firing the taser at the officers. They should have just incapacitated him. I agree with Kittens but that's not how police are trained.

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/video-surveillance-camera-captured-rayshard-brooks-firing-taser-at-cop-before-being-shot/?fbclid=IwAR1fMuyUlHUjLiDJW7q2J7t80WDhk_X3vcX65CvFqcpcmw26XPirQ5wJG9o

[thedutchiedutch]

32 minutes ago, and then said:

Cops are just human, too.  They don't have the luxury of knowing ahead of time how things will unfold.  This man was heavily intoxicated and had already overcome one of them enough to grab his taser.  Cops are not trained to use their weapons to wound.  Despite the silliness we see in the entertainment world, shooting a suspect in a nonvital area is NOT an easy thing to do and it can still end with a dead cop.  When using a handgun, the rule is to shoot for center-mass and to keep shooting until the threat is DOWN.  

The reality of that job is that every time they engage with the public, they risk their lives.  If the kind of protests we are seeing now, continue to cause city governments to treat cops like criminals then there will be no cops.  I've said it before but it bears repeating - take away that thin blue line and we will quickly discover just how dark a world we live in.  The spread of lawlessness is a cancer and America is beginning to see its metastasis.  

Agreed, Cops are humans too. I also think that the rights to bear arms doesn't help the situation. Cops in the U.S. are in my opinion continuously on the edge because of the Second Amendment. It has been proven unfortunately time after time that many people have been killed by officers mistakenly thinking they reached for a weapon. Also if you compare policing in the US with policing in Western Europe you will find US policing very brutal in general. In general cops in Europe have way more patience and leave way more room for negotiating. 

[thedutchiedutch]

30 minutes ago, susieice said:

When will people learn their cell phones are very seldom the only cameras around anymore. This is from Wendy's surveillance cameras. Atlanta's Mayor acknowledged the existence of the video that clearly shows Brooks firing the taser at the officers. They should have just incapacitated him. I agree with Kittens but that's not how police are trained.

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/video-surveillance-camera-captured-rayshard-brooks-firing-taser-at-cop-before-being-shot/?fbclid=IwAR1fMuyUlHUjLiDJW7q2J7t80WDhk_X3vcX65CvFqcpcmw26XPirQ5wJG9o

Maybe it's time for a change in police training ?

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Cops are just human, too.  They don't have the luxury of knowing ahead of time how things will unfold.  This man was heavily intoxicated and had already overcome one of them enough to grab his taser.  Cops are not trained to use their weapons to wound.  Despite the silliness we see in the entertainment world, shooting a suspect in a nonvital area is NOT an easy thing to do and it can still end with a dead cop.  When using a handgun, the rule is to shoot for center-mass and to keep shooting until the threat is DOWN.  

The reality of that job is that every time they engage with the public, they risk their lives.  If the kind of protests we are seeing now, continue to cause city governments to treat cops like criminals then there will be no cops.  I've said it before but it bears repeating - take away that thin blue line and we will quickly discover just how dark a world we live in.  The spread of lawlessness is a cancer and America is beginning to see its metastasis.  

I understand the risks associated with being a police officer, a well as the split-second life or death decisions they have to make. But it's situations like this one that separate the 'men from the boys'. I have seen videos of well-trained cops diffuse situations where they were faced with even deadlier threats. It can be done, and should be done whenever possible. I have a great deal of respect for police and do not want to see any of them harmed, yet, I also respect human life, and I shudder to think how easily they can destroy it despite other options available to them.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Kittens Are Jerks

[+susieice]

26 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Maybe it's time for a change in police training ?

Police today never know when or where an ambush is coming from. They can be serving a warrant or answering a domestic call, which is statistically the most dangerous call to go on. Someone starts shooting at them. Can't wait to see social workers get called into these situations. In a lot of them, it comes out they already were involved with the family.  A lot of kids supposedly under a case with child protection services end up being killed. Vehicular stops are also highly fatal to police when someone pulls out a gun and starts shooting. It's quite a world we live in. Most of this happens in big cities with gang wars for territory and drug wars for profits. There are dozens killed in inner city hoods every night that have nothing to do with cops or whites or anyone else really. It's common every day news to hear about 2-3 people up to several groups of 6-7 people being shot in Philadelphia daily. All this resulted in police training, especially in these cities, to become more militaristic. Where I am, we hear about it every day but we don't have the problems like this for now. I don't know. Philadelphia has a black police chief and a black police commissioner and a whole lot of black cops. Maybe they should go into these black communities where white people are not liked or welcomed and handle the situations. For other people, you simply don't go there. I can't say this particular event happened in one of these areas but I'm sure Atlanta is as full of them as Philly is.

Edited June 14, 2020 by susieice

[thedutchiedutch]

4 minutes ago, susieice said:

Police today never know when or where an ambush is coming from. They can be serving a warrant or answering a domestic call, which is statistically the most dangerous call to go on. Someone starts shooting at them. Can't wait to see social workers get called into these situations. In a lot of them, it comes out they already were involved with the family.  A lot of kids supposedly under a case with child protection services end up being killed. Vehicular stops are also highly fatal to police when someone pulls out a gun and starts shooting. It's quite a world we live in. Most of this happens in big cities with gang wars for territory and drug wars for profits. There are dozens killed in inner city hoods every night that have nothing to do with cops or whites or anyone else really. It's common every day news to hear about 2-3 people up to several groups of 6-7 people being shot in Philadelphia daily. All this resulted in police training, especially in these cities, to become more militaristic. Where I am, we hear about it every day but we don't have the problems like this for now. I don't know. Philadelphia has a black police chief and a black police commissioner and a whole lot of black cops. Maybe they should go into these black communities where white people are not liked or welcomed and handle the situations. For other people, you simply don't go there. I can't say this particular event happened in one of these areas but I'm sure Atlanta is as full of them as Philly is.

It's plain sad. 

[aztek]

justified shooting, 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

7 minutes ago, susieice said:

Police today never know when or where an ambush is coming from. They can be serving a warrant or answering a domestic call, which is statistically the most dangerous call to go on. Someone starts shooting at them. Can't wait to see social workers get called into these situations. In a lot of them, it comes out they already were involved with the family.  A lot of kids supposedly under a case with child protection services end up being killed. Vehicular stops are also highly fatal to police when someone pulls out a gun and starts shooting. It's quite a world we live in. Most of this happens in big cities with gang wars for territory and drug wars for profits. There are dozens killed in inner city hoods every night that have nothing to do with cops or whites or anyone else really. It's common every day news to hear about 2-3 people up to several groups of 6-7 people being shot in Philadelphia daily. All this resulted in police training, especially in these cities, to become more militaristic. Where I am, we hear about it every day but we don't have the problems like this for now. I don't know. Philadelphia has a black police chief and a black police commissioner and a whole lot of black cops. Maybe they should go into these black communities where white people are not liked or welcomed and handle the situations. For other people, you simply don't go there. I can't say this particular event happened in one of these areas but I'm sure Atlanta is as full of them as Philly is.

Good points and examples, thank you for the additional insight.

Here's an article about a Toronto cop who didn't shoot. It includes a short video of the incident.

From the article:

When faced with the threat of death or grievous bodily harm, a police officer is authorized to use force to protect themselves or others, up to and including deadly force. With this authority comes significant responsibility. Just because you’re authorized to use deadly force doesn’t mean you always should. There are many times when police officers could legally use deadly force, but don’t.

https://theconversation.com/why-didnt-he-shoot-the-toronto-cop-who-did-everything-right-95570

 

[acidhead]

Wendy's on fire in Atlanta

 

[Bed of chaos]

2 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

And the use of lethal force was necessary why exactly? 

Oh sure I can see why one might want to take the easy way out, but if you're going to shoot someone under those circumstances, why not simply shoot to incapacitate, rather than kill? Indeed, why not first make an effort to somehow de-escalate the situation? The officers knew it was a taser, not a gun. Their lives were not in imminent risk.

 

Their lives were in risk. He could've used the taser on cop and grabbed his gun. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Bed of chaos

[+susieice]

Here's an article. Wendy's is burning. Firefighters are still on the scene.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/atlanta-police-shooting-wendys/index.html

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/protesters-take-atlanta-streets-3rd-weekend-after-death-black-man-hands-apd/E4AMA3EGXNG75F5WFZCO5X6SQ4/

[acidhead]

 

[+susieice]

Here's Atlanta live.

 

[DarkHunter]

3 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

And the use of lethal force was necessary why exactly? 

Oh sure I can see why one might want to take the easy way out, but if you're going to shoot someone under those circumstances, why not simply shoot to incapacitate, rather than kill? Indeed, why not first make an effort to somehow de-escalate the situation? The officers knew it was a taser, not a gun. Their lives were not in imminent risk.

 

So instead of shooting at center mass, the largest and easiest place to hit a human you want the cops in a split instant decision aim for a relatively small possibly moving target with a high probability of missing in an area where a missed shot will have a decent probability of hitting an innocent bystander either directly or by ricochet.   Also there is the fact the cops are using a type of gun that is in general notoriously more difficult to aim and accurately fire.  To top it off they know the guy failed a field sobriety test but probably no idea what he took and depending on the substance may very will largely be incapable of feeling pain and a nonfatal shot could very well not even phase him.

This isnt the movies where all the cops are crack shots with a handgun and never miss a knee shot or a shot to the arm to make the criminal drop the weapon.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Cops in the U.S. are in my opinion continuously on the edge because of the Second Amendment. It has been proven unfortunately time after time that many people have been killed by officers mistakenly thinking they reached for a weapon.

Your opinion is duly noted.  Freedom is not easy.  It requires strength, perseverance and work.  Freedom requires risk and we accept that risk.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

and I shudder to think how easily they can destroy it despite other options available to them.

Without being at the scene and involved in this event it is impossible to appreciate what options were available to them.  When a person is stopped by law enforcement in this country, if they respond compliantly, it is rare for such situations to escalate to the level of lethality.  When a person is intoxicated and actually fights with the cop, what they receive is on THEM, IMO.  Mature adults don't play that game.  

2 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Maybe it's time for a change in police training ?

In what respect?  Do you imagine a cop can be trained to hold their fire even in situations where they KNOW their life is at stake?  This seems to be what some want.  These people are doing a job that is critical to keeping our civilization together and they want to go home at the end of the day as well.  Bad cops exist.  Chauvin is proof positive of that axiom.  But MOST cops aren't bad.  They do a dangerous job for little money and increasingly little appreciation.  When the supply of men and women who are willing to do the job shrinks to less than the numbers needed, then what?  

Everyone is a critic but none of those critics would have the courage to do the job day in and day out.  I'll predict right now that in municipalities where qualified liability is removed from cops, those areas will immediately lose cops and not be able to replace them.  

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

In general cops in Europe have way more patience and leave way more room for negotiating. 

I don't doubt there are valid comparisons to be made but I'd remind you that it is very rare in the U.S. to see these in public:

these cops are Europeans.  

[Gwynbleidd]

I realise this is stating the obvious, but it was only a matter of time before something like this was to happen, especially given the current climate.  Emotions are running far too high on every side right now.  

[+and-then]

Just now, Gwynbleidd said:

I realise this is stating the obvious, but it was only a matter of time before something like this was to happen, especially given the current climate.  Emotions are running far too high on every side right now.  

Altercations that turn deadly happen too often for everyone but it is part of the nature of policing today.  America is becoming more lawless daily and as we watch politicians and entertainers held to one standard and everyone else to another standard this lawlessness will only grow.  Add to this the media's desire to stir animosity among Americans and it becomes a volatile witch's brew.  The very people who are marching and looting and destroying property will be the ones screaming for help from cops once the city thugs realize there is no one to stop them.  Bank on that.

[Gwynbleidd]

57 minutes ago, susieice said:

Here's Atlanta live.

 

Thanks for this feed Susie!  The thing I can't get over is....I keep getting told by the news here that these protests are peaceful.  How is burning something down peaceful and someone ends up getting shot?  Rhetorically speaking.  Where are all of the peaceful protesters I keep hearing about........Seriously.