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Careful_perspective

Anonymous Berkeley Professor letter about BLM

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papageorge1

Sounds like a sensible letter I pretty much agree with. Are we at the point where some don't want opposition opinions? If identified there will probably be calls for this professor to be fired. Now that is scary!

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and then
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Sounds like a sensible letter I pretty much agree with. Are we at the point where some don't want opposition opinions? If identified there will probably be calls for this professor to be fired. Now that is scary!

What they should find scary is the possibility that whites decide NOT to be guilt ridden or fearful of the PC police.  There is a backlash coming and when it does, those who constantly scream racism will finally see what REAL racism looks like.  I think it's a simple expression of human nature that if a group is being punished for a behavior, whether they engage in it or not, you'll see more of them engage in it.  Why not?  

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papageorge1
1 minute ago, and then said:

What they should find scary is the possibility that whites decide NOT to be guilt ridden or fearful of the PC police.  There is a backlash coming and when it does, those who constantly scream racism will finally see what REAL racism looks like.  I think it's a simple expression of human nature that if a group is being punished for a behavior, whether they engage in it or not, you'll see more of them engage in it.  Why not?  

Trump won by surprise after the 2016 Ferguson riots. Just saying.

 

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Piney
25 minutes ago, and then said:

What they should find scary is the possibility that whites decide NOT to be guilt ridden or fearful of the PC police.  There is a backlash coming and when it does, those who constantly scream racism will finally see what REAL racism looks like.  I think it's a simple expression of human nature that if a group is being punished for a behavior, whether they engage in it or not, you'll see more of them engage in it.  Why not?  

I think the SJWs drove many people to the Alt Right. That crew at Rutgers and Rowan's history department made me want to puke with their petty BS and crying over friggin words. 

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Kittens Are Jerks

Berkeley's Department of History faculty:

https://history.berkeley.edu/people/faculty

There are just two African Americans, both women. One specialises in the history of Africa, the other primarily on gender and American slavery.

I find it rather odd that a person, supposedly fearful of losing their job, would pen an anonymour letter then still provide enough information to hang thenselves.

And Zero Hedge? Seriously?

 

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Piney
19 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

And Zero Hedge? Seriously?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

They seem level headed enough.........

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micahc

It's probably fake. so who does it help? I do think there are forces trying to create a backlash to help trump.  steve bannon said, make it about identity politics and they will win. It wasn't just the Ferguson riots that helped trumpanov, there were also strange Mexican immigrant protests in LA and San Diego that popped up, with rioters damaging police cars and waving Mexican flags.  That probably got trumpo a million votes.  That is right out of Putin's playbook. I am sure a lot of these protestors are very sincere, but they are being egged on and coordinated by social media.  we already know about fake Antifa sites being created by white supremist groups, and I am sure Russia is working over time to help the puppet.  Be suspicious of everything and for those still loyal to America, vote the clown out of office no matter what they try and pull.

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Kenemet
37 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Berkeley's Department of History faculty:

https://history.berkeley.edu/people/faculty

There are just two African Americans, both women. One specialises in the history of Africa, the other primarily on gender and American slavery.

I find it rather odd that a person, supposedly fearful of losing their job, would pen an anonymour letter then still provide enough information to hang thenselves.

And Zero Hedge? Seriously?

The author of that letter is both male and White and is heavily into "Men's Rights" philosophy (or at least hits every single argument point rather uncritically) and is probably an academic, to judge from the tone.  They advance a lot of arguments that sound just fine until you start examining them more closely (for instance, re-read the letter and notice that the police departments are being framed as bastions of whiteness... when police departments are actually multi-ethnic (and by the way are plagued with race problems... Dallas has a whole long history of it and you can read all about it in newspaper accounts.)  The issue isn't white supremacy, it's abuse of power.

And any good historian would know that.

The document rambles from topic to topic, cites vague complaints (e.g. White victims of Black crime) and ... really, we've seen this before.  A top-notch academic isn't going to use something so insubstantial as that; quality research will have numbers and citations.

I think that the author should apply to a private university and leave public universities alone.  His scholarship just isn't up to snuff.

 

 

  

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Kenemet
43 minutes ago, Piney said:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

They seem level headed enough.........

I ... wondered if aliens had kidnapped you.  Then I clicked the link.

Ah yes.  "Level headed...."

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Tatetopa

   Well perhaps it is as useful as the viagra substitute ads and other male oriented -get babes adds in the page sidebar.  The alt right can't be cleaning their AK's all  the time.

 

 

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Kittens Are Jerks
9 hours ago, Kenemet said:

The author of that letter is both male and White and is heavily into "Men's Rights" philosophy (or at least hits every single argument point rather uncritically) and is probably an academic, to judge from the tone.  They advance a lot of arguments that sound just fine until you start examining them more closely (for instance, re-read the letter and notice that the police departments are being framed as bastions of whiteness... when police departments are actually multi-ethnic (and by the way are plagued with race problems... Dallas has a whole long history of it and you can read all about it in newspaper accounts.)  The issue isn't white supremacy, it's abuse of power.

And any good historian would know that.

The document rambles from topic to topic, cites vague complaints (e.g. White victims of Black crime) and ... really, we've seen this before.  A top-notch academic isn't going to use something so insubstantial as that; quality research will have numbers and citations.

I think that the author should apply to a private university and leave public universities alone.  His scholarship just isn't up to snuff.

What I found most interesting is that the letter has appeared on most far-right sites (and nowhere else), and just happens to focus on every argument they have used (such as the black-on-black violence) to derail from the real issues at hand. The heavy-handed attacks on the Democrats was also self-serving. It's easy enough to pick it apart line by line, but why even bother. It's not worth the effort.

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Kenemet
29 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

What I found most interesting is that the letter has appeared on most far-right sites (and nowhere else), and just happens to focus on every argument they have used (such as the black-on-black violence) to derail from the real issues at hand. The heavy-handed attacks on the Democrats was also self-serving. It's easy enough to pick it apart line by line, but why even bother. It's not worth the effort.

The reason (for me) to pick it apart just a bit is because I've had friends fall for this... and fall for the "Indian Americans" supposedly meaning "Native Americans", among other garbage in there.  

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eight bits
Posted (edited)

As to authenticity, while I don't doubt that Wilfred Reilly "can confirm that the letter ... was sent" to him and Thomas Sowell, that is not a claim that he can authenticate it.

Tracey Beanz, who tweeted the thing, works here:

https://uncoverdc.com/

Looks legit, eh? A lot like zerohedge.

The letter itself doesn't identify its author as a faculty member, merely tells some professors "I am one of your colleagues" at Berkeley. Universities are collegial places. Undergraduates minoring in history could truthfully describe themselves as junior colleagues of their professors. At the other end of the academic food chain, tenured faculty don't worry much about losing their jobs.

And I can't prove it, but the tone is wrong. Univariate is used idiosyncratically. Nobody at Berkeley needs to be told who Thomas Sowell is; he works a stone's throw away at Stanford, at the right-wing enclave that looms over that campus. The whole Bezos-Starbucks-et al. "slaver" section - with "literal" slaves no less - rings false coming from an elite writer. It also has nothing to do with the announced purpose of the letter. Similarly, the supposed BLM pass-through to the Biden campaign section.

My intuition tells me this is fake. Like Christians against Dinosaurs, but without the subtlety, grace and wit.

Edited by eight bits
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Kittens Are Jerks
1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

The reason (for me) to pick it apart just a bit is because I've had friends fall for this... and fall for the "Indian Americans" supposedly meaning "Native Americans", among other garbage in there.  

You were right to pick it apart, especially for the reasons you did. I was speaking for myself, and the fact that I couldn't be bothered with it.

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Jerry Gallo

Racial disharmony will continue in spite of real or fake anonymous letters and those always on the edge of their seats eager to marginalize the site or who information comes from. The argument is not whether the letter is authentic analysis or partisan propaganda, nor is it whether there are partisan sites on both sides doing the bidding of leftist or right wing fringe groups. That folks are still interested in those games is truly an insane proposition. The argument is about what is truly holding back the black community in America. Rarely does anyone pick apart the actual content points, they swiftly move to "authenticity". Even in watching a Twitter feed for an hour, one can see the same phenomenon every hour of every day. So, why not focus on the actual problem? Things in the letter or often ignored questions that get sidetracked into nonsense...

1. Democrat mayors in major cities going back decades, if not a century, that have been unable to address crime, poverty, and blight/flight.

2. Fatherless families.

3. Black on black crime.

4. The swiftness of some in America to declare racism or demand change/reparations/guilt from whites.

5. The ad-hominem attacks on any black person who disagrees with BLM vision, often called tokens or Uncle Tom.

6. The mention of Jews, Muslims, Asians, and Mexicans in the letter who have seemingly gone in other directions.

Do not mistake this post as a white person saying, there is nothing to see here, because there absolutely is a problem in this country. No matter what we say or do, there will always be ignorance which causes discrimination. There will always be someone in power abusing their position. Those things get talked about all day, every day, from very partisan positions. Where has that gotten us?

And BTW, don't think for a minute I didn't consider listing disclaimers by each numbered item above to head off tangent, irrelevant comments that are sure to follow. But I'm past all that, interested only in relevant discussion that seems absent on any forum I've been on left, right or middle.

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OverSword
On 6/13/2020 at 7:17 PM, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Berkeley's Department of History faculty:

https://history.berkeley.edu/people/faculty

There are just two African Americans, both women. One specialises in the history of Africa, the other primarily on gender and American slavery.

I find it rather odd that a person, supposedly fearful of losing their job, would pen an anonymour letter then still provide enough information to hang thenselves.

And Zero Hedge? Seriously?

 

So are you speculating that the author was one of the African American women?  There are other people in that department as well.

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2020 at 8:44 PM, Tatetopa said:

   Well perhaps it is as useful as the viagra substitute ads and other male oriented -get babes adds in the page sidebar.  The alt right can't be cleaning their AK's all  the time.

Those adds are targeted :w00t:  The adds I see are all geared toward a guitar amp I've been thinking about buying B)  What have you been surfing to see viagra substitutes?

Edited by OverSword
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aztek
50 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So are you speculating that the author was one of the African American women?  There are other people in that department as well.

seems like she is trying hard to discredit the source while offering 0 factual evidence to contradict the clam,  which we know all too well are absolutely true

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OverSword

Well I suppose we will see if this letter or the more prevalent narrative is correct.  In my city the police are no longer allowed to use tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets or other traditional means of crowd control.  As well choke holds are banned and plans are underway to reallocate police funds to support minority communities, mental health, homelessness, etc.  If this letter is right we will see a rise in crime and lower quality individuals in the police department with less training who will be smashing peoples heads with clubs and giving them brain damage rather than subduing them with choke holds when they meet with a suspect who is combative.  If the protesters and our city government are right we will see healthier communities and more prosperous people living in equality.  Can't wait to see how great it is in a few years. :clap:

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Those adds are targeted :w00t:  The adds I see are all geared toward a guitar amp I've been thinking about buying B)  What have you been surfing to see viagra substitutes?

I wondered about that, thought I might be tipping my hand, but it was too funny to pass up.     It could be my age or it might be that I googled "Donald Trump's amazing success with women."  Most of the time I get woodworking stuff

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eight bits

A small point for the discussion. I believe that the letter's phrase Indian Americans was not intended to refer to Native Americans, but rather to American residents of Asian Indian heritage. The Census term (2010 and 2020) is Asian Indian, but the phrase Indian American is attested in mainstream American professional writing, e.g.

https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

Within the letter, the term appears in a list of American racial and ethnic groups with lower incarceration rates than white Americans, a category where (I am told) Asian Indians would fit and where Native Americans wouldn't.

That doesn't make the letter the product of a Berkeley history professor, but any writing should be criticized for the flaws it actually possesses.

 

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OverSword
17 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I wondered about that, thought I might be tipping my hand, but it was too funny to pass up.     It could be my age or it might be that I googled "Donald Trump's amazing success with women."  Most of the time I get woodworking stuff

I'm sure that's what it was :rolleyes:

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Kittens Are Jerks
3 hours ago, OverSword said:

So are you speculating that the author was one of the African American women?  There are other people in that department as well.

The authour of the letter states that he/she is African American.

As for any speculation, there's no point to it.

 

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Kittens Are Jerks
On 6/13/2020 at 10:38 PM, Piney said:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

They seem level headed enough.........

Google just kicked ZeroHedge off its ad platform (totally demonetising it) and also put The Federalist (another far-right biased site) on notice for racist protest content.

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