Strange something or other in the elevator

[ChrLzs]

BTW, this thread should surely be an example of how skeptics are in fact very polite when someone brings along a claim and genuinely engages in the discussion..  Kudos to you, KAJ, and all participants.

[the13bats]

43 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I agree, I don't think we'll ever get an explanation for what happened.

As for the midges I've not really had an opportunity to observe their behaviour when they're in a mating swarm. I've been hit in the face by them, but never saw them coming. When I'm out on the balcony, they attach themselves to my computer screen for no other reason than to drive me insane.

I wasnt suggesting your friend becky was like ones ive ran into, so if she doesnt jump to some paranormal this or thst then she will have my respects.

I too feel like chrlzs feels about the video, in fact had this been anyone else i would have poked hard that was just an excuse for not having said video, heck theres another thread on here with some alleged moving black thing in a hotel hall, on there cctv, so yeah, its a missed opportunity.

I have no clue if it was "bugs", i didnt see it but i would go with bugs before paranormal, i know that sounded hard edged, but i would love just one case example of proven paranormal which there isnt, but a swarm of bugs raises its own questions.

I fully believe this case can be solved.

 

[micahc]

5 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I knew you would be! The first time was very similar to this morning's incident. The same kind of object whisking out of an elevator, only it appeared to have come from a corner in the elevator's ceiling, and it travelled higher than this last one. I was with just one other person. They saw it as well, but it was so darn fast that we were not able to see it in any detail.

Interesting.  You mentioned it could be gas? What do you think it was? Were you able to see through it? was it at a constant height off the ground? and it turned corners? and when you said it disappeared, did you mean it actually vaporized away or the person following just lost sight? 

Seems some government authority should be notified, then the video becomes public record. 

 

Another thought:  If it was an inanimate object, or gas, it would need an air current to travel along.  Could possibly there be a vacuum created when the elevator doors open, and some other door is open or closed such as the lobby door leading out?  Does your apartment have air curtains on the front door?  I am thinking something like plastic grocery bag, that we all know the wind can pick up easily.  you might get one and put it on the floor of the elevator, and with an accomplice open and shut doors in the lobby as the elevator opens.  Even if it wasn't paper or plastic, but a gas, you might create the same current and the bag will move in the same direction. You could at least prove how it might have moved.  If it is paranormal it doesn't need an air current. I don't believe the paranormal, but maybe yours is the first.

Edited June 15, 2020 by micahc

[freetoroam]

Any cameras in the lift?

Could of been a last minute released fart as far as we know. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

10 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Hmm.  That's EXTREMELY disappointing.  First up, I don't think there are any privacy issues, or at least if the video was suitably face blurred, I'd LOVE to know what issues they still have....  Thing is, it sounds as though several people have seen the video, and given the nature of it, surely there should be a motivation for the powers that be to get it properly looked at.

In fact, I am reliably legally informed  that if they don't investigate it when given the chance, ie now, and something happens (cue scary music), then they should be held liable for their disinterest and failure to determine the cause...  Even if it was just insects - what if someone is allergic to their bites, or there are other health implications, depending on what it turns out to be..?

I think the building managers should consider way beyond just their privacy concerns, and I suspect that it would not cost much at all to take this to a video production company and ask them to create a copy where they blur out any identifying features of the building and the people, while leaving the anomaly as intact as possible....

If not, a huge opportunity may have just passed by...

Here in Ontario, cameras cannot be installed in common areas without full consideration as to the purpose and use of the video surveillance. The same privacy considerations apply to the actual surveillance footage as well. All surveillance video must be stored in a secure location with access limited to authorised personnel only. As a resident, I would be permitted to view it only in the event of an incident, but would have to first submit a written request with a detailed explanation as to why I needed that access. The security person who allowed us to view the video broke with protocol and could lose his job if anyone found out. Telling them I wanted the video to post on an Unexplained Mysteries forum so that people who may or may not have relevant expertise could offer their input would not go over well. That's the hurdle I am faced with, but I will try and if my request is refused, I can always again ask for a still of the cloud so that we at least have something to examine.

And yes, they do need to investigate and they are. They have called in technicians and other experts to get to the bottom of it. I spoke with management this morning and asked them to look into the possibility of an insect infestation. They said that it was something they had already considered and that it was just a matter of getting the right person in. So I'm confident they are doing all that they can to get to the bottom of it. You were right to assume that the last thing they need are law suits from irate residents.

[Stiff]

6 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

They have called in technicians and other experts to get to the bottom of it.

How cool would it be if the head honcho doing the investigation came back with his report and said: "It's definitely some form of demonic entity so we've spread salt across all the elevator entrances and we're just awaiting the arrival of the Winchester brothers."

 Now that would really make my day.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

9 hours ago, micahc said:

Interesting.  You mentioned it could be gas? What do you think it was? Were you able to see through it? was it at a constant height off the ground? and it turned corners? and when you said it disappeared, did you mean it actually vaporized away or the person following just lost sight? 

Seems some government authority should be notified, then the video becomes public record. 

Another thought:  If it was an inanimate object, or gas, it would need an air current to travel along.  Could possibly there be a vacuum created when the elevator doors open, and some other door is open or closed such as the lobby door leading out?  Does your apartment have air curtains on the front door?  I am thinking something like plastic grocery bag, that we all know the wind can pick up easily.  you might get one and put it on the floor of the elevator, and with an accomplice open and shut doors in the lobby as the elevator opens.  Even if it wasn't paper or plastic, but a gas, you might create the same current and the bag will move in the same direction. You could at least prove how it might have moved.  If it is paranormal it doesn't need an air current. I don't believe the paranormal, but maybe yours is the first.

I don't think it was gas per se, but am a little concerned that it may have been something toxic. It's not the most logical explanation, but given the potential health hazards, I wanted all possibilities examined, even though some were more viable than others.

Not sure how much of a vacuum is created when elevator doors open, but do know that the building pumps air in from the outside and on windy days you can hear it whilst in the elevators (and hallways for that matter). Sometimes it gets so windy, the elevator doors have difficulty closing on their own. It wasn't that windy yesterday, but windy enough so that you could hear it a little, and no doubt played a role. So thank you for mentioning air currents, vacuums and the like. They're something I should have figured into the equation, but did not think to do so.

[micahc]

27 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I don't think it was gas per se, but am a little concerned that it may have been something toxic. It's not the most logical explanation, but given the potential health hazards, I wanted all possibilities examined, even though some were more viable than others.

Not sure how much of a vacuum is created when elevator doors open, but do know that the building pumps air in from the outside and on windy days you can hear it whilst in the elevators (and hallways for that matter). Sometimes it gets so windy, the elevator doors have difficulty closing on their own. It wasn't that windy yesterday, but windy enough so that you could hear it a little, and no doubt played a role. So thank you for mentioning air currents, vacuums and the like. They're something I should have figured into the equation, but did not think to do so.

I think there was some conspiracy of coincidences. I did think about weather conditions after I thought about it more. If the wind does impact the elevator, I am thinking the shaft acts as a channel.  Maybe the air current is always there, just most days nobody notices. Then wind of a certain speed and direction increases the current. Also changing barometric pressures by approaching or passing storms might have an impact.  Whenever we are surprised we are at first confused. Something flying out of an elevator we ride all the time, would be very confusing, and after perhaps jumping back, or turning all our attention to this thing, usually our brain quickly figures it out.  If it was a living thing like a cat, squirrel, escaped pet ferret, lost bat, someone's brain would have recognized it.  Apparently nobody's did, and its form is so unusual even a video doesn't clear it up. That is why I am thinking debris like paper, plastic, that just doesn't show up well on the video.  if all the factors were not happening, perhaps, it would have just been a plastic bag that float up just a little. Insects again are alive, and any swarm I have ever seen never looks like a solid mass during the swarming, unless they settle.  And there are always stragglers so the elevator would have been littered with lost bugs.  Your building maintenance workers might also be playing you too. I also am not aware of toxic gasses that move that way. CO2 would hover towards the ground, but you wouldn't see it, unless it was like from dry ice in water.  Still needs a current to move.  Go look around the lobby for some piece of plastic hidden behind a plant, or furniture of something like that.  maybe it was already thrown away.

Edited June 15, 2020 by micahc

[Kittens Are Jerks]

48 minutes ago, micahc said:

I think there was some conspiracy of coincidences. I did think about weather conditions after I thought about it more. If the wind does impact the elevator, I am thinking the shaft acts as a channel.  Maybe the air current is always there, just most days nobody notices. Then wind of a certain speed and direction increases the current. Also changing barometric pressures by approaching or passing storms might have an impact.  Whenever we are surprised we are at first confused. Something flying out of an elevator we ride all the time, would be very confusing, and after perhaps jumping back, or turning all our attention to this thing, usually our brain quickly figures it out.  If it was a living thing like a cat, squirrel, escaped pet ferret, lost bat, someone's brain would have recognized it.  Apparently nobody's did, and its form is so unusual even a video doesn't clear it up. That is why I am thinking debris like paper, plastic, that just doesn't show up well on the video.  if all the factors were not happening, perhaps, it would have just been a plastic bag that float up just a little. Insects again are alive, and any swarm I have ever seen never looks like a solid mass during the swarming, unless they settle.  And there are always stragglers so the elevator would have been littered with lost bugs.  Your building maintenance workers might also be playing you too. I also am not aware of toxic gasses that move that way. CO2 would hover towards the ground, but you wouldn't see it, unless it was like from dry ice in water.  Still needs a current to move.  Go look around the lobby for some piece of plastic hidden behind a plant, or furniture of something like that.  maybe it was already thrown away.

I totally agree with how our brains try to make sense of something, especially when everything happens really quite quickly. The idea that it could have been a plastic bag is a very plausible one, but there was literally no sign of anything like it. The area just past the elevator corridors and to the right of them, is an enclosed space. There is a long glass wall running alongside the lake, and the rest of the area contains tall plants and seating area with a couple of leather benches. At the end of that space is a short corridor with a locked door leading to the main lobby. We checked the cameras for that area and whatever that thing was, it dissipated before it got well into that area. Indeed, it barely made it around the corner. But it is an avenue worth pursuing just the same, as cameras, like our brains and eyes, aren't always reliable.

[XenoFish]

Was there any kind of smell? Like burnt wires maybe? 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Was there any kind of smell? Like burnt wires maybe? 

Good question. Nothing that we noticed. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Good question. Nothing that we noticed. 

I'm was just thinking that it might be smoke of some kind. Could be the result of maintance. Excessive grease burn off due to friction. I don't really know. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I'm was just thinking that it might be smoke of some kind. Could be the result of maintance. Excessive grease burn off due to friction. I don't really know. 

Smoke was our first thought as well. There may have been a scent attached to it, but given its relatively small size, it may not have carried a scent strong enough to be noticed. That, and the fact that its scent would have been competing with a gazillion other scents in the area, cleaning solutions, perfumes, etc.

As for maintenance, there has been a considerable amount going on, including a recent project to repair extensive damage in that area.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Smoke was our first thought as well. There may have been a scent attached to it, but given its relatively small size, it may not have carried a scent strong enough to be noticed. That, and the fact that its scent would have been competing with a gazillion other scents in the area, cleaning solutions, perfumes, etc.

As for maintenance, there has been a considerable amount going on, including a recent project to repair extensive damage in that area.

That could be the case. Do you know if they're welding in that area by chance? 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That could be the case. Do you know if they're welding in that area by chance? 

Not in that area, no. However, there are are a number of neighbouring areas, some behind closed doors, where there might be some maintenance going on. Another possibility is the work that the elevator maintenance guys have been doing this past week. I will ask.

[micahc]

47 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

... it dissipated before it got well into that area. Indeed, it barely made it around the corner. 

so just to be clear, it was in clear sight and faded away? dissipated as in visible gas, fumes, cloud? I was under the impression someone pursued it around the corner but did not locate it.  And the video also shows it dissipate? Is it continuous video or one of those that takes a frame every few seconds? I am still convinced that the air current is the method of propulsion. If it was dust, you would probably see some still in the elevator.  Smoke is a good candidate, but if was from burning you would think it would really stink. Perhaps some chemical reaction from something spilled in the elevator. It just seems a video should clear it up and I am confused why it doesn't.  Is the elevator carpeted? Has anyone swapped the area you think it originated looking for perhaps a powder.  Maybe someone spilled a fine powder and the wind picked it up. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by micahc

[freetoroam]

Someone starting up their vape?

The video surely would be handy. Privacy issue is a cop out, so likely nothing unusual to be seen on it hence they do not want to show it.

We have had numerous cctv camera footage posted on here, no one is going to get sued by posting this one.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 hour ago, freetoroam said:

Someone starting up their vape?

The video surely would be handy. Privacy issue is a cop out, so likely nothing unusual to be seen on it hence they do not want to show it.

We have had numerous cctv camera footage posted on here, no one is going to get sued by posting this one.

No one was vaping. The privacy or whatever other issue behind releasing the footage is not so much a cop-out as it is policy. There are people in the videos and no matter how much I assure management their identities will be masked, the video will probably stay put. The only time they would release surveillance footage is if the police requested it, and even that is a process. The other issue (something that just occurred to me) is that my building is very distinctive and the majority of the main lobby and common areas is floor to ceiling windows with views of the lake and various harbour buildings and ammenities. Anyone who lives in the area or has visited would know exactly where I lived. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 hour ago, micahc said:

so just to be clear, it was in clear sight and faded away? dissipated as in visible gas, fumes, cloud? I was under the impression someone pursued it around the corner but did not locate it.  And the video also shows it dissipate? Is it continuous video or one of those that takes a frame every few seconds? I am still convinced that the air current is the method of propulsion. If it was dust, you would probably see some still in the elevator.  Smoke is a good candidate, but if was from burning you would think it would really stink. Perhaps some chemical reaction from something spilled in the elevator. It just seems a video should clear it up and I am confused why it doesn't.  Is the elevator carpeted? Has anyone swapped the area you think it originated looking for perhaps a powder.  Maybe someone spilled a fine powder and the wind picked it up. 

Yes in clear site and it evaporated as it moved. And yes, someone did check around the corner, but it had pretty much dissipated by that time. The person who checked was last in line and pretty much right where the thing turned. I later took that same elevator up to my apartment, but did not notice any smell or any residue of any kind. I looked at the floor (which is a dark marble) but did not closely examine it. Dirt or powder like substances would be easy to spot on the black marble. It shows everything, which is one of the common complaints of residents when it comes to the lobby flooring. Everything is cleaned several times a day, so it's too late to check again.

[mystic_chill]

Interesting account Kittens. I've been actively browsing these forums since the recent sighting I had with a more broader prospective. You sorta get an appreciation for those who transcribe their experiences for public access despite the probability of ridicule from others. 

Most just dont get that we dont walk around expecting the unexpected and camera ready when something odd occurs. And if what you experienced cant easily be explained away its difficult to accept the theories of others.

[ChrLzs]

6 minutes ago, mystic_chill said:

You sorta get an appreciation for those who transcribe their experiences for public access despite the probability of ridicule from others.

On the contrary, I think this thread shows that if you present a claim and then engage in good faith in the conversation about it, there is NO ridicule whatsoever.  Sure, some claims are so 'out there' that they may attract immediate ridicule, but from what I see, the vast majority of ridicule arises when claimants either:
- reject any/all mundane explanations without proper consideration, and/or..
- continue to promote what is very clearly a faked event

I don't want to derail this thread with further meta-discussion, but as I said earlier, I think this is a superb example of how a conversation at UM *should* unfold.

[+Liquid Gardens]

18 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Really good guess though, but it was close enough to see that it wasn't a swarm of anything.

Good sighting, I was going to go with a swarm of small bugs also.  Mainly because of the connection to the 'bellman's cart", which could have previously been carrying food or drink or who knows what that tiny bugs like to congregate around.  Not sure where you're located but where I am it's late spring which is typically about the time when these swarming bugs emerge for the summer. 

But for that explanation and the 'toxic cloud' it seems odd that it 'shot out' of the elevator, it seems like you'd notice more a gust of that intensity, so coupled with what you say above, not sure.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

3 hours ago, micahc said:

Is it continuous video or one of those that takes a frame every few seconds?

Sorry. just realised I did not answer that question. It's continuous video, and as the surveillance system was updated just recently, the quality is quite good. I also know that cameras in parts of the building (perhaps outside as well, but not sure) are on a motion sensor, but I do not believe that's the case in the area we were in.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

12 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Good sighting, I was going to go with a swarm of small bugs also.  Mainly because of the connection to the 'bellman's cart", which could have previously been carrying food or drink or who knows what that tiny bugs like to congregate around.  Not sure where you're located but where I am it's late spring which is typically about the time when these swarming bugs emerge for the summer. 

But for that explanation and the 'toxic cloud' it seems odd that it 'shot out' of the elevator, it seems like you'd notice more a gust of that intensity, so coupled with what you say above, not sure.

You raise some good points, thank you.

I live right on the lake, and running into swarms of midges is a common occurrence. They love breeding near water.

 

[XenoFish]

At least it wasn't a visible fart cloud. If it was I'd hate to know what they ate.