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OverSword

NonlocalConsciousness and the Burden of Proof

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Piney
18 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Browsing a paper on non local consciousness and I came across this bit

 

I think there is a human group consciousness to a certain extent and the connection can be made stronger among groups and between individuals. 

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Piney said:
 

I think there is a human group consciousness to a certain extent and the connection can be made stronger among groups and between individuals. 

On 9-11, months after swearing off all cable news channels and holding to that, I woke up more than an hour before I normally would have (unemployed at the time) turned on the TV and for some reason purposefully dialed in the number for CNN and five seconds later the second plane hit the WTC and our lives all changed forever. 

Edited by OverSword
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spartan max2
16 minutes ago, Piney said:
 

I think there is a human group consciousness to a certain extent and the connection can be made stronger among groups and between individuals. 

As a skeptic I would need to see some kind of proof of that before accepting it.

But I would be lieing if I said it didn't feel that way sometimes. Like there is a group consciousness.

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OverSword
15 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

As a skeptic I would need to see some kind of proof of that before accepting it.

But I would be lieing if I said it didn't feel that way sometimes. Like there is a group consciousness.

Read the first couple of pages of the linked article.  There is a part about healers that seems to have some proof.

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XenoFish

Let me make popcorn. I know how this will go...

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XenoFish
22 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Like there is a group consciousness.

The idea of a collective unconsciousness gets tossed around a bit. I'm waiting for the usual's to come in and do their thing.

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Piney
30 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

As a skeptic I would need to see some kind of proof of that before accepting it.

In Zen your taught not to look for proof and I don't think there is any.

Woo slingers try to explain it through their version of "quantum physics?" but that is just so wrong on so many levels. 

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OverSword
11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Let me make popcorn. I know how this will go...

That nobody will bother to browse the link before contributing their two cents? :whistle:

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XenoFish
19 minutes ago, OverSword said:

That nobody will bother to browse the link before contributing their two cents? :whistle:

Why should I? I mean if I do put in a quality post it will readily be dismissed in favor of whatever someone wishes to believe. Really no point in posting anything anymore. 

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papageorge1

Well perhaps even better examples of group consciousness comes from the animal kingdom. For example sterling birds creating flock sky dances. I’ve read I believe by Rupert Sheldrake that the orchestration happens too fast to be explainable by individual physical response to behavior. It is speculated that they enter some group consciousness not explainable as Individual physical reaction.
 

The claim is that there is mathematics and physics showing the failure of a materialist model to explain these aerial dances.  But defending the math and physics is over my pay grade.

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psyche101
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Browsing a paper on non local consciousness and I came across this bit:

Read the rest here

I'm not positive this is the best area to post this but here it is anyway.

Referring to 'that bit'. 

If that was the case, after the neral connection is made, rehearsal wouldn't be required and nobody should be tone deaf should they? 

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lightly

This might be dum....but, I always think there is some non-physical.....pre-physical aspect of reality . and that without "it" physicality could not and would not exist.     ..or not.   So, if true, there should be no expectations of physical evidence. ? 

i know most, if not all, people will think this idea is silly....but I truely wonder.

 

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Referring to 'that bit'. 

If that was the case, after the neral connection is made, rehearsal wouldn't be required and nobody should be tone deaf should they? 

huh?

 

11 minutes ago, lightly said:

This might be dum....but, I always think there is some non-physical.....pre-physical aspect of reality . and that without "it" physicality could not and would not exist.     ..or not.   So, if true, there should be no expectations of physical evidence. ? 

i know most, if not all, people will think this idea is silly....but I truely wonder.

 

But there is physical evidence/indication.  Go read the first couple of pages of the paper and see the part I referenced to Spartan earlier.

edit: @lightly How about this to make it more weird.  The reason why there may be indications of non-local consciousness is because we are a simulation, all part of the same program continually accessing it at some level to keep up to date with what's going on.

?format=1500w 

Edited by OverSword
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OverSword
47 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Well perhaps even better examples of group consciousness comes from the animal kingdom. For example sterling birds creating flock sky dances. I’ve read I believe by Rupert Sheldrake that the orchestration happens too fast to be explainable by individual physical response to behavior. It is speculated that they enter some group consciousness not explainable as Individual physical reaction.
 

The claim is that there is mathematics and physics showing the failure of a materialist model to explain these aerial dances.  But defending the math and physics is over my pay grade.

I'm skeptical of that.  I read a study about starling flocks in which they concluded that any bird in the flock only has to focus on two other individuals to participate in those flock maneuvers. Little birds have incredibly quick reflexes.

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

huh?

Basically he's saying that if neural activity is syncing up then it should be a hive mind activity. No screw ups.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

I'm skeptical of that.  I read a study about starling flocks in which they concluded that any bird in the flock only has to focus on two other individuals to participate in those flock maneuvers. Little birds have incredibly quick reflexes.

Plus you've got thousands+ years of instinct at work.

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OverSword
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Basically he's saying that if neural activity is syncing up then it should be a hive mind activity. No screw ups.

I see. I don't think it happens to the extent that a third entity is created that does all the work.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

I see. I don't think it happens to the extent that a third entity is created that does all the work.

When you have two people playing the same song, and the same instrument. It is not much of a surprise that they mental get in tune (pun intended) with each other. 

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spartan max2
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Read the first couple of pages of the linked article.  There is a part about healers that seems to have some proof.

Its a bit long but I'll give it a good read once I get the chance :tu:

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Its a bit long but I'll give it a good read once I get the chance :tu:

It's actually the third column of page one.  It lines up with the anecdote of positive thoughts or prayers directed at someone seem to have an effect even if they are unaware of the prayers said on their behalf.  They have recorded the effect with MRI's while it is happening.  I would cut and paste but it pastes as a narrow column and I don't feel like backspacing to make the formatting match the website like I did in the post at the top.

Edited by OverSword
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papageorge1
35 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm skeptical of that.  I read a study about starling flocks in which they concluded that any bird in the flock only has to focus on two other individuals to participate in those flock maneuvers. Little birds have incredibly quick reflexes.

I found the article I remember reading: Consciousness Emerges From Social Coherence

Here's a pertinent excerpt:  

Sheldrake provides several examples of this like flocks of animals, such as fish, birds, and insects, which coordinate their movements with incredible precision and acuity. Skeptics assume that this is merely an example of rapid sensory adjustment. However, the nervous system is far too slow to account for such quick changes in group action but extrasensory—somewhat instantaneous—communication or perception can explain how these swarms of animals can so expertly move about as if controlled by a singular mind.

Now I recall reading Sheldrake's book in the library that went into this in more detail but I can't produce a link. I realize a materialist will claim the reaction time is fast enough. It seems we are in a conflict for which I can not referee the technical details.

 

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psyche101
5 hours ago, OverSword said:

huh?

 

But there is physical evidence/indication.  Go read the first couple of pages of the paper and see the part I referenced to Spartan earlier.

edit: @lightly How about this to make it more weird.  The reason why there may be indications of non-local consciousness is because we are a simulation, all part of the same program continually accessing it at some level to keep up to date with what's going on.

?format=1500w 

Xeno got it 

It was 3 am here. I woke up and was trying to get back to sleep. Not the time to read several pages and process it.

Question remains the same regarding a group consiouness.

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psyche101
5 hours ago, lightly said:

This might be dum....but, I always think there is some non-physical.....pre-physical aspect of reality . and that without "it" physicality could not and would not exist.     ..or not.   So, if true, there should be no expectations of physical evidence. ? 

i know most, if not all, people will think this idea is silly....but I truely wonder.

 

Isn't that the Higgs?

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OverSword
4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Xeno got it 

It was 3 am here. I woke up and was trying to get back to sleep. Not the time to read several pages and process it.

Question remains the same regarding a group consiouness.

I suppose that nothing as grand as a hive mind is formed. It showed that the participant musicians mind synced up I think. 

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