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Damien99

Fleeting universe

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Damien99
6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That the universe will end. Yeah, just like our lives. Now you've got a choice.

1)Keep worrying.

2)Live your life.

Fretting over this isn't productive. Won't lead you anywhere good. And is honestly a waste of time. I happen to agree with Piney, it sounds like you're going though either a mid life or existential crisis, maybe both. 

So the universe will end in our lifetimes then, thank you for clarifying 

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XenoFish
26 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

So the universe will end in our lifetimes then, thank you for clarifying 

The universe will keep going long after the earth has been consumed by the sun. No point in worrying about it. Just live your life and try to enjoy it.

(what happened to my previous post?)

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Damien99 said:

I am just going by the question and answer in the interview. Is states the universe is fleeting, lasting for a very short time 

This question?

"If the universe is fleeting, how is all of the stuff that we do worth doing?

That’s a huge thing that I’ve wrestled with in the course of writing this book, and I don’t think I came to a solid conclusion. It’s different from a personal death, because people think about their own death and they think, well, I’ll live on in some way through my children or my great works, or just the impact I had on the people around me. There will be some legacy to my existence in some way. But if it’s the whole cosmos that’s ending, that is no longer true. I think there’s a point at which you did not matter. And I don’t think we have the emotional or philosophical tools to wrestle with that."

First, where did the interviewee use the word fleeting?   It seems a stupid question and it seems stupid to fixate on it.  The answer only talks about the relativity of the question, is it relative to a single person who is not going to be around to see the universe end or not.  And again she does not answer the question in a straight forward manner.  LIke maybe the interviewer chopped her answer or explanations up to add her own slant.

I wish you well, and will not click on any more of your threads.  Have fun with your doom and gloom.

Edited by Desertrat56
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ChrLzs
Posted (edited)

I just quoted this on another thread, but it really belongs here....  This little dissertation comes from Tim Minchin's 9 Lessons of Life...

Quote

You will soon be dead. Life will sometimes seem long and tough and, god, it’s tiring. And you will sometimes be happy and sometimes sad. And then you’ll be old. And then you’ll be dead.

There is only one sensible thing to do with this empty existence, and that is: fill it. Not fillet. Fill. It.

And in my opinion (until I change it), life is best filled by learning as much as you can about as much as you can, taking pride in whatever you’re doing, having compassion, sharing ideas, running(!), being enthusiastic. And then there’s love, and travel, and wine, and sex, and art, and kids, and giving, and mountain climbing … but you know all that stuff already.

It’s an incredibly exciting thing, this one, meaningless life of yours.

 

Edited by ChrLzs
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papageorge1
3 hours ago, Damien99 said:

So I think that this article just implied the end of the universe is fleeting (coming fast) 

If the universe is fleeting, how is all of the stuff that we do worth doing?

That’s a huge thing that I’ve wrestled with in the course of writing this book, and I don’t think I came to a solid conclusion. It’s different from a personal death, because people think about their own death and they think, well, I’ll live on in some way through my children or my great works, or just the impact I had on the people around me. There will be some legacy to my existence in some way. But if it’s the whole cosmos that’s ending, that is no longer true. I think there’s a point at which you did not matter. And I don’t think we have the emotional or philosophical tools to wrestle with that.
 

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-will-the-universe-end-katie-mack-explains-20200622/

Well, I am coming at the issue you present from an Advaita (non-dual=God and creation are not two) perspective.

In my view we are at our source eternal Consciousness/God/Brahman. The universe is then a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman in which Consciousness separates itself from itself in Act I and returns itself to itself in Act II. It is a divine play with a happy ending for all.

I think your challenge was more intended for those of an atheist-materialist philosophy. If I was of a materialist philosophy I would have to say to just experience for the temporary. 

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bison

The use of the term 'fleeting' is stretched beyond all reasonable recognition here. Dr. Mack, the astronomer being interviewed, and her interviewer both understand that the universe appears 'fleeting' only in the sense that it apparently will, in an unimaginably distant  future, thin out and cool to such an extent that it can be considered 'dead'.

They would seem to prefer a universe that goes on forever, in about the same way as it is currently constituted. Otherwise, they seem to feel, our purposes and struggles will, in the end, have all come to nought.

It is possible to contend that in that immensely remote future, consciousness could have evolved to the point that it no longer has need of our material universe, and finds its dissolution of no further consequence. 

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Damien99
41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Well, I am coming at the issue you present from an Advaita (non-dual=God and creation are not two) perspective.

In my view we are at our source eternal Consciousness/God/Brahman. The universe is then a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman in which Consciousness separates itself from itself in Act I and returns itself to itself in Act II. It is a divine play with a happy ending for all.

I think your challenge was more intended for those of an atheist-materialist philosophy. If I was of a materialist philosophy I would have to say to just experience for the temporary. 

You lost me 

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Damien99
21 minutes ago, bison said:

The use of the term 'fleeting' is stretched beyond all reasonable recognition here. Dr. Mack, the astronomer being interviewed, and her interviewer both understand that the universe appears 'fleeting' only in the sense that it apparently will, in an unimaginably distant  future, thin out and cool to such an extent that it can be considered 'dead'.

They would seem to prefer a universe that goes on forever, in about the same way as it is currently constituted. Otherwise, they seem to feel, our purposes and struggles will, in the end, have all come to nought.

It is possible to contend that in that immensely remote future, consciousness could have evolved to the point that it no longer has need of our material universe, and finds its dissolution of no further consequence. 

Why is that your thought

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

You lost me 

Well, non-dual philosophy is not for everyone 

Edited by papageorge1
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bison
1 hour ago, Damien99 said:

Why is that your thought

Well, as far as the import of the first two paragraphs are concerned, it seems evident from the trend of the interview, and what can be reasonably inferred from what is asked and answered. 

The final paragraph comes from my own thinking about the continued evolution of consciousness, which is informed by process theology. I simply offer it for whatever you may be able to make of it. With the talk of human purpose and the ultimate  development of the universe, it seemed appropriate, and almost inevitable. 

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Peter B
3 hours ago, Damien99 said:

So then it is true 

 

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

That the universe will end. Yeah, just like our lives. Now you've got a choice.

1)Keep worrying.

2)Live your life.

Fretting over this isn't productive. Won't lead you anywhere good. And is honestly a waste of time. I happen to agree with Piney, it sounds like you're going though either a mid life or existential crisis, maybe both. 

 

3 hours ago, Damien99 said:

So the universe will end in our lifetimes then, thank you for clarifying 

Damien99, did you deliberately misquote XenoFish? Or did you genuinely not notice the difference between what the two of you said?

XenoFish: The universe will end. Just like our lives.

Damien99: So the universe will end in our lifetimes.

Please understand, these two statements are not the same.

Read the article you posted again. Look at the three End-Of-Universe statements made in the article.

- Heat Death: Unimaginably far in the the future.

- Big Rip: Physicists don't take it seriously because they can't find a fundamental theory which would lead to it.

- Vacuum Decay: Physicists don't take it seriously because it relies on the Standard Model of Particle Physics being the whole deal, which physicists don't believe is the case.

So out of the three scenarios, one has the universe ending in the vastly distant future, and the other two scenarios are not taken seriously by physicists because our understanding of physics at the moment doesn't point towards either of them.

It's like being told your savings will run out some time - either because you'll live to be a million years old or because an alien will steal your bank account. One is going to happen but not until long after you've died, and the other is incredibly unlikely.

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Rlyeh
10 hours ago, Damien99 said:

It’s different from a personal death, because people think about their own death and they think, well, I’ll live on in some way through my children or my great works, or just the impact I had on the people around me. There will be some legacy to my existence in some way. But if it’s the whole cosmos that’s ending, that is no longer true.

Who will remember you billions of years after your death?  If humans go extinct, what will your legacy be?

 

10 hours ago, Damien99 said:

I think there’s a point at which you did not matter.

Like before you were born?

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third_eye

Any moment now... 

Quote

Avengers-Endgame-Deleted-Scene-Thanos-Re

~

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XenoFish

The answer is: Don't worry about it.

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Damien99

What makes no sense is the way the question is worded and the response about while writing the book contemplating is it’s actually worth the effort. If this is billions of years in the future why contemplate it. Also the point made about we don’t have the mind to deal with it. 

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Peter B
46 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

What makes no sense is the way the question is worded and the response about while writing the book contemplating is it’s actually worth the effort. If this is billions of years in the future why contemplate it. Also the point made about we don’t have the mind to deal with it. 

Two answers quickly come to mind.

1. We're curious creatures. There's a puzzle and we want to solve it. And there isn't a bigger puzzle than what's going to happen to the universe.

2. You never know where this research may lead. Investigating why the dinosaurs became extinct led to discovering the Chicxulub impact. Investigating the Chicxulub impact led to the realisation that we're still at risk from meteor impact, billions of years after the formation of the Solar System. That realisation has led to the systematic search for asteroids and comets that pass through our region of space, and the mitigation of a risk we didn't comprehend a few decades ago. All thanks to the fact that people were curious about why the dinosaurs became extinct.

Who knows what we might find out in the process of investigating the ultimate fate of the universe. A device to negate gravity within a specified area? A means to travel between stars in minutes? Time travel?

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Damien99
2 minutes ago, Peter B said:

Two answers quickly come to mind.

1. We're curious creatures. There's a puzzle and we want to solve it. And there isn't a bigger puzzle than what's going to happen to the universe.

2. You never know where this research may lead. Investigating why the dinosaurs became extinct led to discovering the Chicxulub impact. Investigating the Chicxulub impact led to the realisation that we're still at risk from meteor impact, billions of years after the formation of the Solar System. That realisation has led to the systematic search for asteroids and comets that pass through our region of space, and the mitigation of a risk we didn't comprehend a few decades ago. All thanks to the fact that people were curious about why the dinosaurs became extinct.

Who knows what we might find out in the process of investigating the ultimate fate of the universe. A device to negate gravity within a specified area? A means to travel between stars in minutes? Time travel?

Not really sure that answered what I asked but I understand what you said 

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lightly
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Damien99 said:

What makes no sense is the way the question is worded and the response about while writing the book contemplating is it’s actually worth the effort. If this is billions of years in the future why contemplate it. Also the point made about we don’t have the mind to deal with it. 

I think the word " fleeting" as regards the universe , was a poor choice.?  The universe is expected to last for at the very least billions ...more likely trillions of years ...or in an eternal, as far as we know, cycle.   I think we can be fairly certain it won't end in our lifetimes.     I've come to the conclusion, based on nothing more than instinct and sheer brilliance, .. . that Nothing is impossible.   Non- Existence is not possible.  ...  Non-Existence is not possible.    Some may disagree. :P and I could be wrong, but I'm not. ;)

.. As for not having the mind to deal with the end of the universe and ourselves, it is sort of the big one.  ..most of us have difficulty with that idea?

If your life and what you do is important to you ,and others, .it will be, forever.   Is your life important while you are asleep and unaware? Mine too.  :)

Edited by lightly

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Desertrat56
23 minutes ago, lightly said:

I think the word " fleeting" as regards the universe , was a poor choice.?  The universe is expected to last for at the very least billions ...more likely trillions of years ...or in an eternal, as far as we know, cycle.   I think we can be fairly certain it won't end in our lifetimes.     I've come to the conclusion, based on nothing more than instinct and sheer brilliance, .. . that Nothing is impossible.   Non- Existence is not possible.  ...  Non-Existence is not possible.    Some may disagree. :P and I could be wrong, but I'm not. ;)

.. As for not having the mind to deal with the end of the universe and ourselves, it is sort of the big one.  ..most of us have difficulty with that idea?

If your life and what you do is important to you ,and others, .it will be, forever.   Is your life important while you are asleep and unaware? Mine too.  :)

my opinion is that the interviewer or whomever wrote that article has no clue what fleeting really means.  It was a bad choice of words and the supposed response to her question was such that makes me suspect the interviewee was not answering that specific question.   It is a very poorly written article.

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Tatetopa

Most of us have had occasion to worry about the future.  We might doubt ourselves, and get obsessed and depressed, "What if I fail the test?"  "What if I go blind?"  "What if I have a catastrophic automobile accident?"

Those thoughts pass through all of our minds, but usually we are able to dismiss them and go on about our business.

Some people do not find it so easy to let go.  They just can't stop thinking about something bad happening, and they focus a lot of their waking energy on worry.

Journalists know that if they can make some people worry, those people will read and  even re-read the article and maybe even tell their friends about it.

Causing people to worry is a cheap substitute for  creating a well written interesting article.  We all get caught once in a while and have to stop and think.  People communicate with us sometimes not to inform us but for their own selfish reasons.

 

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Most of us have had occasion to worry about the future.  We might doubt ourselves, and get obsessed and depressed, "What if I fail the test?"  "What if I go blind?"  "What if I have a catastrophic automobile accident?"

Those thoughts pass through all of our minds, but usually we are able to dismiss them and go on about our business.

Some people do not find it so easy to let go.  They just can't stop thinking about something bad happening, and they focus a lot of their waking energy on worry.

Journalists know that if they can make some people worry, those people will read and  even re-read the article and maybe even tell their friends about it.

Causing people to worry is a cheap substitute for  creating a well written interesting article.  We all get caught once in a while and have to stop and think.  People communicate with us sometimes not to inform us but for their own selfish reasons.

 

I know I would not have read that article if Damien hadn't posted it with his silly questions.  :lol:

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Tatetopa

I have my own personal fear that causes me to look over my shoulder and twitch at rustles in the bushes.  I just know a middle aged  fighter with a chainsaw is going to pop out and carve me into a fat waving bear.  I will have to stand there with a silly grin wearing some stupid hat and waving at people I don't like until I rot. At times like that it doesn't even help me to remember that god= non-dual carburetor chain saw.

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Coil
23 hours ago, Damien99 said:

So I think that this article just implied the end of the universe is fleeting (coming fast) 

If the universe is fleeting, how is all of the stuff that we do worth doing?

That’s a huge thing that I’ve wrestled with in the course of writing this book, and I don’t think I came to a solid conclusion. It’s different from a personal death, because people think about their own death and they think, well, I’ll live on in some way through my children or my great works, or just the impact I had on the people around me. There will be some legacy to my existence in some way. But if it’s the whole cosmos that’s ending, that is no longer true. I think there’s a point at which you did not matter. And I don’t think we have the emotional or philosophical tools to wrestle with that.https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-will-the-universe-end-katie-mack-explains-20200622/

 

Man is eternal and the universe is finite, therefore even if the universe ceases to exist, man does not cease to exist and only moves to the level of the Primordial Existence. The Universe is just one of the places for life and development. A man is afraid of death because his body and mind are mortal and the only way to get rid of all fears is to open a spiritual, eternal consciousness, his spirit, this is a real, immortal and perfect person.
The record of all acts and the result of a person’s work is stored in akasha chronicles so that nothing is lost even if the physical object or country is destroyed or in the deep memory of the spirit that records and does not forget anything.
All the right actions of a person work on manifestations of the spirit, or if the action is bad, then hiding the spirit from the person.
If our universe is transformed into the eternal substance of God, then it will not be subject to depletion, since the eternal energy of God will be able to endlessly support it and there will be no more time and entropy. It will be the same as with God - the Eternal Present. Correct knowledge is eternal and brings joy to the soul, and the evil ones are quick-ended (evil destroys itself)

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Waspie_Dwarf
6 hours ago, Damien99 said:

If this is billions of years in the future why contemplate it. 

It's called science Damien, you should try it some time. It's about asking questions and trying to discover the truth. It's about asking big questions and trying to find the answers. 

The universe started billions of years so why contemplate it?

Life on Earth started billions of years ago so why contemplate it?

The pyramids were built thousands of years ago, so why contemplate them?

The answer is because many want to learn, they want to understand. 

You maybe happy wallowing in a pit of ignorance, making crap up and then ignoring facts because they don't fit your own, loony, views, but that behaviour, as you have admitted yourself, is not normal. 

Making provably false claims about what an article says is not normal.

Ignoring the entire contents of an article and claiming that one, single, out of context word (fleeting) proves you right even when every other word in the article says you are wrong is not normal. 

Knowledge, learning, that is normal. Really you should try it.

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