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Xeno-Fish

Spiritual Void

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Liquid Gardens
Just now, XenoFish said:

What’s the difference between religion and spirituality?

There are some pretty clear ways in which religion and spirituality differ.

Religion: This is a specific set of organised beliefs and practices, usually shared by a community or group.

Spirituality: This is more of an individual practice, and has to do with having a sense of peace and purpose. It also relates to the process of developing beliefs around the meaning of life and connection with others, without any set spiritual values.

For a religious person, I think it's fair in general to say that their spiritual beliefs/practices are the same as their religious belief/practices.  I think of religion to be a subset of spirituality, in that lots of people have spiritual beliefs that don't fit well into the popular religions.

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

That some people's spiritual beliefs are also racist or bigoted isn't a political opinion or controversial, it's a fact. 

But it is irrelevant to the discussion and the question so why bring it up?

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Xeno-Fish
2 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

For a religious person, I think it's fair in general to say that their spiritual beliefs/practices are the same as their religious belief/practices.  I think of religion to be a subset of spirituality, in that lots of people have spiritual beliefs that don't fit well into the popular religions.

How many religious people are very strict in their adherence to their particular religion? How many are the discount bin variety? Religion is just a structured approach to spirituality. Yet you do not need religion to be spiritual. 

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Liquid Gardens
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

But it is irrelevant to the discussion and the question so why bring it up?

How is it irrelevant?  As literally given Xeno's OP seems obvious to me: no, it's not right to destroy something that is harmless that other people value.  The obvious next question then is, why do people try to tear down others' spiritual beliefs, which I've answered.

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

spiritual beliefs

I didn't mention religious beliefs, I mentioned spiritual beliefs. 

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

How is it irrelevant?  As literally given Xeno's OP seems obvious to me: no, it's not right to destroy something that is harmless that other people value.  The obvious next question then is, why do people try to tear down others' spiritual beliefs, which I've answered.

Are you sure that was the intention, for you to decide what the next question is?  I don't think the first question implies the second, that was your interpretation and the OP decided it was leaning off topic. 

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Liquid Gardens
Just now, XenoFish said:

I didn't mention religious beliefs, I mentioned spiritual beliefs. 

Hmm, so did I, that's what you quoted from me??  Are you defining spiritual beliefs in such a way that it is not possible for them to impede or harm other people?

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Hmm, so did I, that's what you quoted from me??  Are you defining spiritual beliefs in such a way that it is not possible for them to impede or harm other people?

Some of us feel or believe that religious beliefs have nothing to do with spiritual beliefs and this is not in the religious thread category, but @XenoFish already pointed that out to you.

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GoldenWolf
4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Let's say that you've successfully destroyed another person's belief system. Their beliefs are harmless, yet you've ripped them apart.

So, do you think creating such a spiritual void is/was worth it? 

I can't help but think of Satanism and stealing someone's soul.

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

Hmm, so did I, that's what you quoted from me??  Are you defining spiritual beliefs in such a way that it is not possible for them to impede or harm other people?

What exactly is so difficult about my OP? 

Here it is plain and simple.

If Person A feels a connectivity to some universal spirit and believes that doing good is the highest goal, are you willing to destroy that? If they think that doing good, finding inner peace, perhaps feeling a connection to a higher power through this while not be a turd to other people, do you feel it is right to destroy that? 

Screw religion, it's a structured approach to someone else's spiritual beliefs and cultural values we all know that. 

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Liquid Gardens
29 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Some of us feel or believe that religious beliefs have nothing to do with spiritual beliefs and this is not in the religious thread category, but @XenoFish already pointed that out to you.

If you feel that religious beliefs have nothing to do with spiritual beliefs, then why do we see so many religious beliefs discussed here, including by you I'm pretty sure, on a board with 'Spirituality' (not "Religion") in the title?

Edited by Liquid Gardens
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Xeno-Fish

Jesus H Christ. Page 2 and it starts. What the hell happened to this place?

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Liquid Gardens

Forget it, if you think I'm off-topic then I have no problem if you'd have a moderator remove my comments.  The answer to your OP is no, it's not cool to destroy anything that people value and cause no harm, doesn't matter the 'category'.

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eight bits
26 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You can't say anything in regards to Judaism or Islam because they are "protected" belief systems.

Have you met Davros?

 

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

The answer to your OP is no, it's not cool to destroy anything that people value and cause no harm

That is quite literally all I asked. Thank you.

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Will Do

 

Quote

The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress. The religion of the mind—the theology of authority—requires little or none of these exertions from its formal believers.

 

 

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Liquid Gardens
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That is quite literally all I asked. Thank you.

Okay, no prob.  Seems like an awfully obvious answer, I'm not sure why anyone here would disagree.

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Xeno-Fish

Do not mistake my intentions. I fully understand discussing and questioning spiritual/religious beliefs. I also know that some people are more spiritual than religious without all the woo soaked weirdness. You have preachers on both sides. Some that constantly quote scripture and spout veiled threats, and those who can not help themselves in regards to constantly talking about their "holy text." Those types do deserve varies degree's of scorn. Then you have the atheist who only want to hit people in the head with a hammer of science. 

It really is a battleground.

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Xeno-Fish
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Okay, no prob.  Seems like an awfully obvious answer, I'm not sure why anyone here would disagree.

I just get the feeling that there are times, where it is almost habit around here for some to rip apart someone's belief, for no other reason than they want to. I'm not innocent in this. 

I find the idea of spirituality as meaning making interesting. I still don't like religion.

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Liquid Gardens
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I also know that some people are more spiritual than religious without all the woo soaked weirdness.

Agreed, I guess I just think that there are other people who are more spiritual than religious with all the woo soaked weirdness.  I'd agree with you though that it seems the harmful stuff tends to fall under more 'religion' than 'non-religious spirituality'.

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Liquid Gardens
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I just get the feeling that there are times, where it is almost habit around here for some to rip apart someone's belief, for no other reason than they want to. I'm not innocent in this. 

I find the idea of spirituality as meaning making interesting. I still don't like religion.

I agree, I'd say the whole point of spirituality, including most religion, is 'meaning'.  There are of course always exceptions among atheists, but I think I'd even argue that the big name atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens) are not 'ripping apart someone's belief for no other reason than they want to', most have provided lots of reasons why they think a lot of these kind of beliefs are not harmless.

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Xeno-Fish
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Agreed, I guess I just think that there are other people who are more spiritual than religious with all the woo soaked weirdness.  I'd agree with you though that it seems the harmful stuff tends to fall under more 'religion' than 'non-religious spirituality'.

Then we both acknowledge that there is a fine line that does get crossed. I supposed a sign of such toxic spirituality/religious beliefs is in aggressively preaching it. 

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Liquid Gardens
Just now, XenoFish said:

Then we both acknowledge that there is a fine line that does get crossed. I supposed a sign of such toxic spirituality/religious beliefs is in aggressively preaching it. 

That may be, I think the tough part in most cases is evaluating the overall degree of 'harm' the beliefs could be causing, since a lot of that is a subjective measure.

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

I agree, I'd say the whole point of spirituality, including most religion, is 'meaning'.  There are of course always exceptions among atheists, but I think I'd even argue that the big name atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens) are not 'ripping apart someone's belief for no other reason than they want to', most have provided lots of reasons why they think a lot of these kind of beliefs are not harmless.

Not all beliefs are equal and some are down right horrid. I guess it's the effect of being on here for so long. I see at times this almost rabid desire to crush something. Maybe I've settled down or don't care as much any more. Most of the time I don't care what a person believes if no one is getting hurt by it. I do have an issue with those who tell me I'm wrong without bothering to support and explain why I am. 

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

That may be, I think the tough part in most cases is evaluating the overall degree of 'harm' the beliefs could be causing, since a lot of that is a subjective measure.

If the personal beliefs don't affect anyone negatively then I'd say they are benign. 

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