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ChrLzs

Covid 'Progress'?

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susieice
CrimsonKing
1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

A new record was just set today in the US - 42,158 new infections in just one day.  The highest for the US since the beginning of this pandemic.

In a sad way this vindicates Trump's non-joke about doing less testing.  That would help with the statistics, briefly, but not the numbers now RE-clogging the hospitals. It's also of little comfort to those who have lost loved ones, and those who have endured / are enduring the disease.

With a bit of a lag, the death rate will probably follow..

And how about Arizona, site for the second rally, and where they did not even test temperatures on entry....:
arizona.jpg.ed5b05bafcaf113161d8ef624053c8c1.jpg
The rightmost bar is for June 23.  Image from https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/arizona-coronavirus-cases.html  But verifiable at multiple sources - they've just set new records for cases *and* hospitalisations..

 

And Trump says "It's going away".  No it isn't.  Not in the US, anyways.

My point?  Do exactly the opposite of trump and rally attendees.  Wear masks, socially isolate where possible, be sensible and try to stay safe..

Honestly i havn't much cared for Trumps reactions to this disease from the start,but being a "novel" virus that the worlds never seen before things were bound to get screwed up left,right,and center...

The biggest screw up has been the American citizens themselves though.Once the re-opening of the economies happened here,EVERYONE white,black,brown,athiest,muslims,and christians it didn't matter they all went bat s*** crazy flooding streets,malls,restaurants you name it!...90% with no masks,hand sanitizer,gloves nadda!...unless one counts these little basic med masks or homemade ones which do absolutely nothing to prevent contracting the disease.

This current outbreak lines up in time with hundreds of thousands in large cities across America for weeks on end standing arm and arm for hours on end,wearing dollar store masks and hugging,shaking hands,touching fallen statues for selfies and other dumb s***...

Now soon enough Rallies and other dumb s*** during this time can only compound the idiocy in the next month but it's too late too b**** and complain now...this spike has nothing too do with Trump rallies.

I havn't even been able to go to a gas station since the begining of May without having to tell some dumb ass in line white,black,or brown to back the **** up a few feet.

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Hankenhunter

Reposted from a covid thread.

  6 hours ago, Dustyrose33 said:

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/06/19/it-really-does-feel-like-the-us-has-given-up-experts-in-other-nations-alarmed-by-us-coronavirus-numbers/

This country must get serious or we're done.  Other countries are concerned about the rising cases in the US, as theirs are going down.   The US now has the most cases on earth.

They look like they are on par to be 1/3 of world wide totals or higher by November. Just over 400,000 dead world wide including the US, compared to US's 120,000 dead. Not good, and *Trumps going to accelerate the rate of infections

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susieice
Posted (edited)

In my area of Pennsylvania, we finally entered the green phase yesterday. The eastern border areas were the last ones to start opening. We were bright red since early March. No theaters will be open but casinos are opening at 50% capacity. You should have seen the lines to get in. It was on our local news. Malls are opening and restaurants can now seat indoors at 50% plus most will still have their outdoor dining areas set up. My friends and I usually go out for lunch a couple times a month but we're holding back for a while until we see what happens. My best friend and I go to the Jersey shore every summer but we aren't making reservations this year for the same reason. We go to the southern tip of New Jersey to Cape May. South Jersey didn't have the virus bad at all through the whole pandemic, but they well may after everyone herds down there. 

Trump didn't do all this. The American people did it to themselves. There was no doubt this was going to happen.

Edited by susieice
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and then

I had an agreement with, Scinerd, IIRC, about checking to see if there would be Covid spikes after the Minneapolis and NYC protests.  I think we set the date to revisit it on June 20th.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-sign-of-covid-spike-after-protests_n_5eed29ddc5b6d30db9899f24?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHAazyhoNT4Il8xHPPX45raN_W_jnPvJDnh9_dHQEPwVftRb-W6JmztKqKLujK2W1U3no8jbaD1XCtuapqBTDlqvq4bYPoPVDuBr1945GvZq5s0iEi9BbPLWIlvuTOVnUjrAkEos8i2oh2-BGbSXZpma0Q5eBbyp_QrVkCYRlv7_

HuffPo isn't exactly a conservative,pro Trump bastion...

Anyone who was paying attention at all could see a second wave would come.  So far, that wave hasn't been a huge problem.  I think we are apt to see worse consequences this Fall when regular flu season overlaps with Covid.  There has to be a sensible middle path between total shutdown of the economy and total reopening with no limitations.  We'll find our way and hopefully, not too many folks will die due to overcrowded health systems.  I firmly believe that state governments that have clamped down hard and refused to allow reopening to progress, have at least a partial political motive.  

New York and California politicians were basically crowing about their ability to hamstring the wider economy by remaining closed.  We are seeing mass coverage of total numbers of new cases as though this metric is the same as an indicator of mass fatalities. 

The mortality rate has not increased, in fact there are indications that with greater testing, the total CFR continues to fall.  That isn't much comfort if one of those fatalities is yourself or a loved one but this nation has 320 million people and it is ridiculous to voluntarily gut the largest global economy and to suffer far more deaths and depression cases because of an economic collapse.  This virus is here.  It is endemic and we still don't have a good idea where this is all headed.  At least we've seen progress on therapeutics like Dexamethasone.  A vaccine may or may not ever be developed but one thing is sure.  Economic gridlock or collapse will destroy far more lives than Sars-Cov-2 ever could.  

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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

A new record was just set today in the US - 42,158 new infections in just one day.  The highest for the US since the beginning of this pandemic.

In a sad way this vindicates Trump's non-joke about doing less testing.  That would help with the statistics, briefly, but not the numbers now RE-clogging the hospitals. It's also of little comfort to those who have lost loved ones, and those who have endured / are enduring the disease.

With a bit of a lag, the death rate will probably follow..

And how about Arizona, site for the second rally, and where they did not even test temperatures on entry....:
arizona.jpg.ed5b05bafcaf113161d8ef624053c8c1.jpg
The rightmost bar is for June 23.  Image from https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/arizona-coronavirus-cases.html  But verifiable at multiple sources - they've just set new records for cases *and* hospitalisations..

 

And Trump says "It's going away".  No it isn't.  Not in the US, anyways.

My point?  Do exactly the opposite of trump and rally attendees.  Wear masks, socially isolate where possible, be sensible and try to stay safe..

At this time it appears according to Dr. Fauci that most of the new infections are occurring in the 20 to 30 age group. According to Dr. Fauci, some of the states listed below did not properly follow the opening instructions from the Federal Government, which were to open once you had passed the curve and infection rates were continuing to drop. He also go's on to say that most of these states are not testing enough of their states population, and these states also do not a plan in effect for contact tracing. So effectively without good testing, and without good contact tracing these states have no way to stem the rise of infections. In addition the three most important things that we can do to protect ourselves are Wear A Mask, Follow Contamination Spread Protocols, and Maintain Social Distancing Protocols.

!) Wear a mask when in closed spaces and in public areas where high volume traffic of people are located. Closed Spaces - Elevators, Public Restrooms, Inside Buildings, While Using any Form of Public Transportation, and especially when you go for Doctors Appointments.

2) Contamination Spread protocols are things to keep in mind when you leave your home. Do not allow yourself to be packed into crowds, always maintain social distancing, Do not touch any surfaces unnecessarily, if you do use hand sanitizer immediately, do not touch you face, mouth, eyes or nose, in public, always wear a mask in public, and speak as little as possible in enclosed spaces, pay attention to frequently touched areas, door handles, toilet flush handles, hand Rails, and any other frequently touch area and immediately use hand sanitizer if you touch one, and when you return home immediately wash your hands, and wash all exposed skin.

3) Social Distancing Protocols, try and maintain a 6ft distance form others when possible, if this isn't possible try to keep your back to others as much as possible.

Here is a list of States that are currently having infection Spikes:  Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, South Carolina, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas.

Peace

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, and then said:

I had an agreement with, Scinerd, IIRC, about checking to see if there would be Covid spikes after the Minneapolis and NYC protests.  I think we set the date to revisit it on June 20th.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-sign-of-covid-spike-after-protests_n_5eed29ddc5b6d30db9899f24?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHAazyhoNT4Il8xHPPX45raN_W_jnPvJDnh9_dHQEPwVftRb-W6JmztKqKLujK2W1U3no8jbaD1XCtuapqBTDlqvq4bYPoPVDuBr1945GvZq5s0iEi9BbPLWIlvuTOVnUjrAkEos8i2oh2-BGbSXZpma0Q5eBbyp_QrVkCYRlv7_

HuffPo isn't exactly a conservative,pro Trump bastion...

Anyone who was paying attention at all could see a second wave would come.  So far, that wave hasn't been a huge problem.  I think we are apt to see worse consequences this Fall when regular flu season overlaps with Covid.  There has to be a sensible middle path between total shutdown of the economy and total reopening with no limitations.  We'll find our way and hopefully, not too many folks will die due to overcrowded health systems.  I firmly believe that state governments that have clamped down hard and refused to allow reopening to progress, have at least a partial political motive.  

New York and California politicians were basically crowing about their ability to hamstring the wider economy by remaining closed.  We are seeing mass coverage of total numbers of new cases as though this metric is the same as an indicator of mass fatalities. 

The mortality rate has not increased, in fact there are indications that with greater testing, the total CFR continues to fall.  That isn't much comfort if one of those fatalities is yourself or a loved one but this nation has 320 million people and it is ridiculous to voluntarily gut the largest global economy and to suffer far more deaths and depression cases because of an economic collapse.  This virus is here.  It is endemic and we still don't have a good idea where this is all headed.  At least we've seen progress on therapeutics like Dexamethasone.  A vaccine may or may not ever be developed but one thing is sure.  Economic gridlock or collapse will destroy far more lives than Sars-Cov-2 ever could.  

Duncan, the reason the so called Second wave isn't a problem is because it isn't here yet. All the current spikes in infections are still part of the original First Wave of infections. The comments you are making are completely incorrect, today alone a number of states had the highest daily infections rates they ever had, as afar as the CFR falling your are totally wrong, I really don't understand where you get your information from, but I suppose you must get it from FOX News. I hope some day you can drop the Party Line and focus on what is really happening, oh and by the way your state is one of those states reporting the highest daily infection rate they have ever seen, so be safe Duncan.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882678364/dr-fauci-discusses-recent-covid-19-spikes-in-several-states

Peace Oh and by the way Duncan your State had the highest daily spike in cases it has ever had yesterday, it Spiked at over 1300 reported cases, so how can you say the CFR is going down Duncan.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Jerry Gallo
4 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

A new record was just set today in the US - 42,158 new infections in just one day.  The highest for the US since the beginning of this pandemic.

In a sad way this vindicates Trump's non-joke about doing less testing.  That would help with the statistics, briefly, but not the numbers now RE-clogging the hospitals. It's also of little comfort to those who have lost loved ones, and those who have endured / are enduring the disease.

With a bit of a lag, the death rate will probably follow..

And how about Arizona, site for the second rally, and where they did not even test temperatures on entry....:
arizona.jpg.ed5b05bafcaf113161d8ef624053c8c1.jpg
The rightmost bar is for June 23.  Image from https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/arizona-coronavirus-cases.html  But verifiable at multiple sources - they've just set new records for cases *and* hospitalisations..

 

And Trump says "It's going away".  No it isn't.  Not in the US, anyways.

My point?  Do exactly the opposite of trump and rally attendees.  Wear masks, socially isolate where possible, be sensible and try to stay safe..

While we did set a record for most cases in one day, the 42158 number is inaccurate compared to the most consistent method of tracking I've found (4pm update at covidtracking.com). Their number is 38672 compared to the previous high of 36001 on Apr 25. But let's not worry about that, let's consider more pertinent information. One difference between April 25 and yesterday is the positive test percentage rate for those days. Apr 25 was 12.9%, yesterday was 7.7%. So, the "worst day yet" is accurate, but relatively speaking, not specifically concerning. Of greater concern in that the daily positive test rate and 10-day new case averages have climbed significantly. in the last two weeks.

The reason it is difficult to use coronavirus statistics to make a political point is that there are way too many variables that do not correlate with the point being made. And we know for a fact that the official counts are manipulated. For example, using cumulative numbers, new records are not that significant. One extra case or hospitalization tomorrow sets a new record, but is one alarming?

The more pertinent question to ask if you are really concerned about health of people in the US is, why are states like WA, CA, TX, and AZ seeing a spike in cases and hospitalizations. WA has their anarchist camp...related? CA still has some of the most strict rules in place and they are spiking...are masking and isolation as effective as we're told? CA, TX, and AZ are warming up and we were told such a thing would be helpful, yet the opposite seems true lately. Why? Have border crossings by people with the virus increased since restrictions have been lifted?

I've tracked 39 benchmarks since day one of this pandemic, daily numbers, all time highs and lows, and percentages. 19 of them yesterday were all time bests. Another nine in the last ten days, another six in the 20 days prior to that. Four were all time worsts, all cumulative numbers which are less relevant when the percentages of them are not all time worsts. We are going in the wrong direction on cases and hospitalizations, but fortunately, thus far, the virus doesn't seem to be causing the ICU, vent and death numbers to similarly spike. So Trump is mostly right that it was going away nationally, whether the spikes will reverse trends to hit new peaks is the question and I'd say it's doubtful.

Lastly, not intending to argue with you about your editorial comments, I'm really just tired of the reporting of data (by media sources) that misleads the public who then use them to make inaccurate statements of fact. There are legit concerns with the stats and we seem to be struggling like no other nation in certain aspects, almost as if there is some manipulation going on. And we can be almost certain there is some, per the CDC's own words in their directives.

 

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Kittens Are Jerks
4 hours ago, susieice said:

That's all you can think about? It just never ceases to amaze me how much people really think Trump can pull off all by himself in a week. Who seriously didn't know these spikes were going to happen? We knew since April there was a good chance of this. Everyone wanted to do what they wanted to do. Everyone said it was going away. Let's get everything opened faster. If you did stay in you're ok but a lot of places are opening up and it's instant packed. Wear a mask although I don't think that ever really caught on here in the US.

It's not just that.

Without adequate testing the contact tracing experts are unable to do their job. As the country reopens, extensive contact tracing is essential to reduce the spread of the virus. PEOPLE MUST GET TESTED. So yes, Trump has indeed pulled it off. His selfishness, combined with the selfishness of various citizens, has proved to be a deadly combination.

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Piney
6 hours ago, susieice said:

Jersey Shore opened Memorial Day. Amusement parks this weekend. They're gonna feel an impact too in a few weeks or so.

Yup, and we have the highest number of cases in the Northeast.

The kids in the Ultra Orthodox Jewish communities, who have the highest number of cases in New Jersey and are also anti-vaxxers are gathering in large numbers to protest the lack of summer camp.

I actually think the parents put them up to it.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/06/lakewoods-kids-are-fighting-for-camp-as-coronavirus-squeezes-summer-plans.html

.....and in Brooklyn.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/orthodox-kids-take-to-brooklyn-streets-in-summer-camp-protest/2458961/

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Desertrat56
7 hours ago, susieice said:

That's all you can think about? It just never ceases to amaze me how much people really think Trump can pull off all by himself in a week.

Didn't you know?  The president, who ever it happens to be is all powerful and responsible for every little thing that happens, blamed or applauded.  Remember the things Bush was accused of?  A lot of those things happend 50 years before he was elected but he was blamed for them, then the same people who blamed Bush for those things blamed Obama, like they had no memory of who they were the day before the election.

People are lazy thinkers and like to have someone to follow and blame.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)

We knew easing restrictions would cause an increase. The point of the lockdown was to slow the spread and get hospitals ready. We did that so then we eased restrictions.

No matter when we eased lockdowns an increase was going to happen. 

If hospitals get close to capacity again then there will probably be more lockdowns.

That's just how it is. It was unrealistic to expect us to be locked downed for over a year straight. 

The states getting hit hardest are mostly tourist summer destinations. 

Idk why people are acting surprised by this. 

Edited by spartan max2
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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

We knew easing restrictions would cause an increase. The point of the lockdown was to slow the spread and get hospitals ready. We did that so then we eased restrictions.

No matter when we eased lockdowns an increase was going to happen. 

If hospitals get close to capacity again then there will probably be more lockdowns.

That's just how it is. It was unrealistic to expect us to be locked downed for over a year straight. 

The states getting hit hardest are mostly tourist summer destinations. 

Idk why people are acting surprised by this. 

New Mexico has not dropped but never had a lot at once until May when a prison worker was found positive, and sent home, 2 weeks later 76% (just over 400 people) of the prison population had the virus.  That is the largest spike we have had so our hospitals have not been over extended, though we have had constant cases.  The lockdown was released slowly and we are all still supposed to be wearing masks.  Arizona never had a lock down and a small town called Yuma, which is an agriculture center and snow bird destination has had 100 - 300 cases a day, still.  Because of no lockdown.

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Kittens Are Jerks
13 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Didn't you know?  The president, who ever it happens to be is all powerful and responsible for every little thing that happens, blamed or applauded.  Remember the things Bush was accused of?  A lot of those things happend 50 years before he was elected but he was blamed for them, then the same people who blamed Bush for those things blamed Obama, like they had no memory of who they were the day before the election.

People are lazy thinkers and like to have someone to follow and blame.

The things Trump is being blamed did not happen 50 years ago. They're happening right here, right now under his watch.  

He deserves to be held accountable for what he's done, and for what he hasn't.

 

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Desertrat56
14 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The things Trump is being blamed did not happen 50 years ago. They're happening right here, right now under his watch.  

He deserves to be held accountable for what he's done, and for what he hasn't.

 

Yes, he deserves to be held accountable, especially for the incindieary remarks, but he is not in charge of some of the things people are upset about.  I do not think Trump is a good leader, however he has been the long handled spoon that stirs the crap up from the bottom of the too long boiling pot where we can look at it and decide if we want to pretend like we didn't see it as we have for so long or decide to do something to clean it up.  He serves a purpose and I think that once he is no longer president he will either disappear (escape) or go to jail.

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spartan max2
29 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

New Mexico has not dropped but never had a lot at once until May when a prison worker was found positive, and sent home, 2 weeks later 76% (just over 400 people) of the prison population had the virus.  That is the largest spike we have had so our hospitals have not been over extended, though we have had constant cases.  The lockdown was released slowly and we are all still supposed to be wearing masks.  Arizona never had a lock down and a small town called Yuma, which is an agriculture center and snow bird destination has had 100 - 300 cases a day, still.  Because of no lockdown.

North Carolina and Ohio also eased lockdowns slowly in phases. 

North Carolina is only on phase 2 of 3. N.C has had spikes while Ohio has been stable.

My point just being that I think being a summer vacation destination is playing of more significant role then people give credit to for the spikes.

Ohio and N.C we have had pretty similar procedures one easing lockdowns, the only difference is Ohio isn't a vacation destination.

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susieice
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Piney said:

Yup, and we have the highest number of cases in the Northeast.

The kids in the Ultra Orthodox Jewish communities, who have the highest number of cases in New Jersey and are also anti-vaxxers are gathering in large numbers to protest the lack of summer camp.

I actually think the parents put them up to it.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/06/lakewoods-kids-are-fighting-for-camp-as-coronavirus-squeezes-summer-plans.html

.....and in Brooklyn.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/orthodox-kids-take-to-brooklyn-streets-in-summer-camp-protest/2458961/

Do you really Piney? I haven't heard yet where NJ has had a big rise in cases. Here in PA we have been on a steady drop. But most of the state never had it that badly and never got to the red zone other than right around Pittsburgh and they were nowhere near as bad as us. Only along the PA/NJ border where so many commute to and from NYC for work every day and the Philadelphia area. This part of Jersey wasn't nearly as bad as the northern part around NYC. We have the Poconos here but it's not a major summer destination. Nothing like the Jersey shore. 

https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroom/gov-wolf-pa-is-one-of-three-states-recognized-by-cdc-for-covid-19-reduction-success/

https://www.goerie.com/news/20200623/pa-one-of-three-states-recognized-by-cdc

You can see by the graphs we are steadily declining. I sure hope as we reopen it doesn't start going up again.

https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/data/

Republican leaders in counties that weren't hard hit at all have actually filed a resolution to impeach Governor Wolf for shutting them down.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/06/pa-lawmaker-introduces-resolution-to-impeach-gov-tom-wolf.html

Edited by susieice
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XenoFish

With all the looters, oh I mean "protesters" out. It's not a shock to see any spike in covid infections. 

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susieice
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

With all the looters, oh I mean "protesters" out. It's not a shock to see any spike in covid infections. 

I was just watching the news and they are reporting that the time span between exposure, infection and illness is measured in weeks. These cases will still take a while to start showing up. The number of cases will rise more. What we're seeing now is the young I'm going out for the summer beach and bar crowd. Barely a month into lockdown California and Florida was going out in herds. What's happening now is being reflected there.

Edited by susieice
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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, susieice said:

I was just watching the news and they are reporting that the time span between exposure, infection and illness is measured in weeks. These cases will still take a while to start showing up. The number of cases will rise more. What we're seeing now is the young I'm going out for the summer beach and bar crowd. Barely a month into lockdown California and Florida was going out in herds. What's happening now is being reflected there.

And in July or August well see another spike.

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susieice
7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

And in July or August well see another spike.

One that I fear will be more widespread. Especially in cities.

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spud the mackem
9 hours ago, susieice said:

In my area of Pennsylvania, we finally entered the green phase yesterday. The eastern border areas were the last ones to start opening. We were bright red since early March. No theaters will be open but casinos are opening at 50% capacity. You should have seen the lines to get in. It was on our local news. Malls are opening and restaurants can now seat indoors at 50% plus most will still have their outdoor dining areas set up. My friends and I usually go out for lunch a couple times a month but we're holding back for a while until we see what happens. My best friend and I go to the Jersey shore every summer but we aren't making reservations this year for the same reason. We go to the southern tip of New Jersey to Cape May. South Jersey didn't have the virus bad at all through the whole pandemic, but they well may after everyone herds down there. 

Trump didn't do all this. The American people did it to themselves. There was no doubt this was going to happen.

This is exactly what is happening in England , although not Scotland ,  Wales ,or Nth Ireland , the P.M  is easing all far to soon , the beaches are a mass of humanity ,the stupid ones that is , even the Super Markets are letting in more people ,and people are queuing outside but once through the doors they go manic , making it harder to shop without some person breathing down your neck, I'm still isolating , its the 84th day living on my boat , I guess that I'm turning into a Hermit  . 

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

With all the looters, oh I mean "protesters" out. It's not a shock to see any spike in covid infections. 

Well now the serious looters, oh I mean politicians and their donors did it from the comfort of their offices over the phone.   $500 billion gone with not even a hand written receipt in the cash drawer.

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