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Manwon Lender

Taliban paid to kill Coalition Soldiers

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, and then said:

Just a couple of points... Trump is going to be attacked by the global media no matter what decision he takes, that's a given.  As to it making our country look weak, with the level of preparedness at all time highs, our adversaries aren't going to be lining up to attack us.

I've mentioned how I think he should respond.  What would your response be?

I think he should first stop denying that he knew about it like he is continuing to do, then take very strong actions against the Taliban, but even stronger actions against Russia. when I say very strong actions I am talking about both publicly and covertly. I am all for some form of Military action that could be carried out in a covert manner, but would also  let Putin know that the ball is in his court, and if he feels Froggy he needs to jump.

But the problem still exists, as of today President Trump is still denying he was informed about this situation, that can't go on, he has to be honest before anything positive can happen.

Here is a link form today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-denies-knowledge-of-russian-bounties-on-us-troops-as-criticism-mounts/ar-BB164l6o?ocid=spartandhp

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, and then said:

Someone should ask Joe, how would you respond?  I mean, he wants to sit in the big chair so he should answer some questions, too.  I'm really not concerned with the politics around this.  A couple of years ago, our Air Force killed between 200 and 400 Russian mercenaries in Syria.  THAT was a humiliation for Putin.  That little man is always going to bide his time until he can sink the knife DEEP when it looks like someone disrespected him.  I guess I just don't see this petty action by Russia as being worthy of risking a wider conflict that could potentially go nuclear.  You pick your battles.  

Neither side wants a wider conflict, and there are Zero chances of this going Nuclear. But, I don't see this as petty at all Duncan, anything that possible could cause the death of our soldiers or coalition soldiers isn't petty at all. As far the deaths of those Russian Mercenaries, they should not have been there in the first place, but they chose to attack a US Position, so they got their collective asss handed to them. The only reason Putin as you say waits to sinks the knife deep is because he hasn't been challenged for doing so in the last 3 years. In my opinion that needs to change and this would be as good as any other reason to show him what we think of his actions. I do not think the US should be afraid to standup to Russia, and I think its about time we do so, because they have gotten away with far to much.

Peace Duncan 

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Yes, but was the head of the USSR sucking up to the current American presidents while the USSR was at war against mujaheddin, supported by the US? 

The question is not if the current fights in Afghanistan are more or less fair than they were, the question is why is current American president either willing to act like he didn't know Russia is at proxy war with the US in Afghanistan, either really didn't know. As it is usual with Trump, it's impossible to tell which option is worse. 

Very good points and Trumps denial of his knowledge that this was occurring is laughable, there is no doubt that if the information was known by the Pentagon  the President and the Vice President were briefed on the Subject. I don't see what he thinks he can gain from lying about it, that only makes him look ignorant and foolish. I mean these people must think that the American Public is really uneducated and just plain stupid if they think that American people are just going to swallow anything he says about this issue, especially when the Sons and Daughters of Americans had their lives put in jeopardy due to this situation. I think this going to bite him in that big fat butt, because there are too many people who are not going to let this go, even Biden is throwing this up in face, and that will only get worst as we closer to November. Here is the latest article about this situation that is being reported by then Media today;  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-denies-knowledge-of-russian-bounties-on-us-troops-as-criticism-mounts/ar-BB164l6o?ocid=spartandhp

Thanks a lot for your post and your support, I really appreciate both very much

Peace and I hope this finds you and your family safe and healthy.

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It wasn't Russian statement that they're paying bounty for American heads, it's info collected by American intelligence. So it is the fact, Russia's paying for American heads. No, it's not shocking. Their money, their problem. The shocking part is that the president of the US is trying to drag Russia into G7, while knowing they're directly responsible for more motivated killings of Americans (and allies). It's equally or even more shocking that there's the possibility Trump was oblivious of that information.  

Your point here is crystal clear and could not have been said any better. But, there is no way trump was oblivious to what has been going on. What Russia has done with these bounties has been known and evaluated for accuracy  by the Pentagon since March, there is no way possible that President Trump and Vice president Pence were not briefed about the Russians paying the Taliban bounties for killing Coalition Soldiers. Now the real question is why has nothing been done about it, and why he cant tell the truth about his actions in this situation. His actions only enforce the fears that many have that he is in Putin's pocket, but this go's far beyond just being in Putin's pocket this edges on Treason because in this case it appears he has allowed the lives of American Soldiers to be placed in jeopardy. In addition all of this has occurred without publicly condemning the action, and by foolishly thinking that he can just duck the situation by claiming he had no knowledge of it.

Lets say he did not have knowledge of he situation, well he does now, and what has he said he is going to do about it, what has he said about how it will be handled, well he hasn't said anything about how the United States will respond to this situation, all he has done since this story became breaking news is to claim he no knowledge about it. I think it would certainly be to his benefit if instead of doing what he is doing, he would tell Americans what he plans to do about it now that he knows, but that appears to be beyond his ability and his administrations ability to comprehend the ramifications of his actions and how this can will effect his reelect campaign.

Thanks again for your post, I appreciate it. 

Peace

 

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, acute said:

By all accounts, Trump rarely reads his daily security briefing.  Maybe 1 in every 5.

Reading a briefing and verbally being briefed are two different things. The President was verbally briefed about this situation in March, but even if he did over look it some how, he knows about it now, and he still hasn't told the America people what he plans to do about It and he still hasn't even condemned the actions by Russia that caused this situation occur in he first place. Even the UK's Government, while just finding out about it like the American people have already started condemning it, so why can't Trump do the same thing. It just doesnt make any sense, this President really appears to be more of an enemy of his own people than anything else.:(:cry::td:

Peace and this really sucks, I just can't believe an American President would ever act this way!! I mean WTF

Edited by Manwon Lender
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and then
7 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I agree with that.

However I'm also pretty sure if he did that everyone who is know attacking him for this would be calling him a war monger.

I think the past 4 years proves that with absolute certainty.  On the whole, I prefer a president that is resolute when it means more than political expediency.  FTR, Russia denies the accusation, not that that means much.  I guess my perspective is a bit broader.  Thinking of Putin paying cash to religious fanatics who send Americans home in boxes is a righteous reason for rage.  OTOH, I don't recall the media attention or anger here when Soleimani was doing exactly the same thing, to much greater affect, in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Different guy in the Oval Office, different standard.

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Can you imagine him trying to find Afghanistan on a map? 

And the word salad that would go with that? "I know maps, I've got the best maps, no s***hole maps... Obama! Turned the map upside-down! But I can hold it with one hand! Many people say maps seem so small in my gigantic hands. No one knew it's possible to read such a small map. Very small. Very, very small. Not like the map of Russia. Great map. We'll make our map great again..."   

That was really funny and it made coffee come out of nose because you made me laugh so hard, that was a great impression of Trump, while reading this I could actually easily picture him saying all that. Thanks again you really made day!!!!:nw::D

Peace

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RAyMO
1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Reading a briefing and verbally being briefed are two different things. The President was verbally briefed about this situation in March, but even if he did over look it some how, he knows about it now, and he still hasn't told the America people what he plans to do about It and he still hasn't even condemned the actions by Russia that caused this situation occur in he first place. Even the UK's Government, while just finding out about it like the American people has already started condemning it, so why can't Trump do the same thing. It just doesnt make any sense, this President really appears to be more of an enemy of his own people than anything else.:(:cry::td:

Peace and this really sucks, I just can't believe an American President would ever act this way!! I mean WTF

calm ML. 

During the period this was common knowledge within the Intelligence Community Trump was publicly touting inviting Putin to an expanded G7 event. Surely if they had not briefed Trump before he made that announcement, they would have done so afterwards, so claiming no knowledge is highly questionable. 

that trump hasn't come up with any relevant actions since is also not surprising - the man is pretty dumb - and his advisors haven't got a clue where he stands on any issue and are therefore at a loss as to what to advise. .

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Manwon Lender
7 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I agree with that.

However I'm also pretty sure if he did that everyone who is know attacking him for this would be calling him a war monger.

I don't agree at all, I think most Americans would stand behind his decision if he did his. Why, it's very simple, those soldiers in Afghanistan are the son's and daughters of Americans, do think that they wouldn't support any action that was designed to make Russia pay for this travesty? Please look at the broader picture of this situation, if you do it will become very clear how wrong Putin's actions were concerning this issue.

Peace

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micahc

MAGATS got to face the fact, Trump is not only an idiot, he is a traitor too.

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Manwon Lender
7 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

calm ML. 

During the period this was common knowledge within the Intelligence Community Trump was publicly touting inviting Putin to an expanded G7 event. Surely if they had not briefed Trump before he made that announcement, they would have done so afterwards, so claiming no knowledge is highly questionable. 

that trump hasn't come up with any relevant actions since is also not surprising - the man is pretty dumb - and his advisors haven't got a clue where he stands on any issue and are therefore at a loss as to what to advise. .

Deep breaths, in and out, in and out. Thanks for your comments, they make perfect sense and your right no one knows where he stands and sadly they are afraid to even ask!!!!!!:yes:

Peace Bro 

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razman
22 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Russian spokespeople are denying it.  Maybe they will maintain that it was rogue elements that will be severely punished.

The top US administration, President and Vice President say they have not been briefed.  Pretty ineffective administration if they have not told the top guys since March.  

Top of Russian Government denies knowledge.  Top of US Government denies knowledge. 

They would both like to let this ugly situation just fade away.

We may not have long to wait.  Care to take bets that this will be played as innocence and ignorance from both sides and that President Trump will promise to sternly ask President Putin when he invites him to the G7 summit?

Sure trumpy didn't know anything about that either.

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thedutchiedutch
9 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I agree with that.

However I'm also pretty sure if he did that everyone who is know attacking him for this would be calling him a war monger.

Well, after what we all know now about what the Russians did, I think if Trump would take some harsh action against Russia next time the U.S. gets challenged again by Russia,  he would actually earn some respect from most people in and outside of the U.S. 

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Manwon Lender
17 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Well, after what we all know now about what the Russians did, I think if Trump would take some harsh action against Russia next time the U.S. gets challenged again by Russia,  he would actually earn some respect from most people in and outside of the U.S. 

There is Breaking News on this subject that is just coming over the news. It appears that these Russian Bounties have caused the deaths of Americans and Coalitions members, this information is coming from the Interrogation of Taliban insurgents under US control. These interrogations have taken place recently and have produced information that US Soldiers were killed in 2018, 2019, and some my have also died this year, since there are already 20 deaths reported in 2020 in Afghanistan, how many of these deaths are do to the bounty offered by Russia, the exact figure has still not ben determined. So things are getting worst for President Trump by the hour, sooner or later  he is going to have do something about this this situation, he can longer dismiss it as fake news!!!

Here is a link that is discussing this online, and it is currently being discussed on media sights on TV as we speak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/russian-bounties-to-taliban-linked-militants-resulted-in-deaths-of-us-troops-according-to-intelligence-assessments/2020/06/28/74ffaec2-b96a-11ea-80b9-40ece9a701dc_story.html

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/504955-intelligence-suggests-russian-bounties-led-to-deaths-of-several-us

Peace

 

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thedutchiedutch
32 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

There is Breaking News on this subject that is just coming over the news. It appears that these Russian Bounties have caused the deaths of Americans and Coalitions members, this information is coming from the Interrogation of Taliban insurgents under US control. These interrogations have taken place recently and have produced information that US Soldiers were killed in 2018, 2019, and some my have also died this year, since there are already 20 deaths reported in 2020 in Afghanistan, how many of these deaths are do to the bounty offered by Russia, the exact figure has still not ben determined. So things are getting worst for President Trump by the hour, sooner or later  he is going to have do something about this this situation, he can longer dismiss it as fake news!!!

Here is a link that is discussing this online, and it is currently being discussed on media sights on TV as we speak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/russian-bounties-to-taliban-linked-militants-resulted-in-deaths-of-us-troops-according-to-intelligence-assessments/2020/06/28/74ffaec2-b96a-11ea-80b9-40ece9a701dc_story.html

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/504955-intelligence-suggests-russian-bounties-led-to-deaths-of-several-us

Peace

 

If this story keeps developing and blowing up Trump could actually use this to his advantage by challenging and punishing Putin and put him in his place big time.

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Manwon Lender
16 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

If this story keeps developing and blowing up Trump could actually use this to his advantage by challenging and punishing Putin and put him in his place big time.

To me that would fine, because something has to be done, so be it if the President gets credit for putting Putin in his place, I can certainly live with that!!!!:yes::mellow:

Peace

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, and then said:

I think the past 4 years proves that with absolute certainty.  On the whole, I prefer a president that is resolute when it means more than political expediency.  FTR, Russia denies the accusation, not that that means much.  I guess my perspective is a bit broader.  Thinking of Putin paying cash to religious fanatics who send Americans home in boxes is a righteous reason for rage.  OTOH, I don't recall the media attention or anger here when Soleimani was doing exactly the same thing, to much greater affect, in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Different guy in the Oval Office, different standard.

What gets me is how most people have probably paid zero attention to our presence in the middle east until this moment.

And alot of people want us not over there at all.

So if people are now all of a sudden being outraged by this it feels sort of hollow.

Edited by spartan max2
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and then
57 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

If this story keeps developing and blowing up Trump could actually use this to his advantage by challenging and punishing Putin and put him in his place big time.

He could take a decision to publicly smack little Vladimir around but Dutchie, you have GOT to be kidding about him gaining an advantage.  No one who hates him will ever credit him with anything and those who support him don't need to be convinced.  

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and then
35 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

So if people are now all of a sudden being outraged by this it feels sort of hollow.

Rank political posturing burns every rational, honest person out, eventually.  It all just becomes sound and fury and is all about throwing another outrage against the wall to see if the gullible will make it go viral.  Trump has proven himself to be the king of defeating these efforts.  I guess the OMB crowd have to be fed the red meat to keep them interested though.

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thedutchiedutch
11 minutes ago, and then said:

He could take a decision to publicly smack little Vladimir around but Dutchie, you have GOT to be kidding about him gaining an advantage.  No one who hates him will ever credit him with anything and those who support him don't need to be convinced.  

I understand what you are saying but there are always people that want to vote but are divided and do not know whom to pick so to smack Vladimir around a bit might bring in these extra votes and by the looks now, he is going to need any vote he can get badly. 

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4 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

by the looks now, he is going to need any vote he can get badly. 

It certainly looks that way.  Did you pay attention to the polling in the summer of 2016?  I did.  The media had convinced me that Trump had no chance to win.  It looked grim for him then as well.  Frankly, I'm convinced that a Biden win will spell the end for America as it was founded and that will be a sore loss to all who love freedom.

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thedutchiedutch
3 minutes ago, and then said:

It certainly looks that way.  Did you pay attention to the polling in the summer of 2016?  I did.  The media had convinced me that Trump had no chance to win.  It looked grim for him then as well.  Frankly, I'm convinced that a Biden win will spell the end for America as it was founded and that will be a sore loss to all who love freedom.

Oh yes, I remember. But I think that it will be different this time. People know now what Trump is capable of or should I say what he is not capable of ? 
The pandemic and all these protests recently really did him in I think. But you are right. Let's see what happens in November and I don't think Biden will be bad for America btw.

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Tatetopa
14 hours ago, and then said:

A couple of years ago, our Air Force killed between 200 and 400 Russian mercenaries in Syria.  THAT was a humiliation for Putin.  That little man is always going to bide his time until he can sink the knife DEEP when it looks like someone disrespected him.  I guess I just don't see this petty action by Russia as being worthy of risking a wider conflict that could potentially go nuclear.  You pick your battles.  

We do agree on this.  You don't flop out the nuclear option, but as you say, you pick your battles.  US response is balanced with Russian action.  We don't let the little man get a freebee.

Yes, we did kill several hundred Russian mercenaries in Syria.  What would those mercenaries have done if the Air Force had not struck their positions?

Would we feel bad for killing several hundred Russian mercenaries who showed up at our southern border with sawzalls?

This is a big decision.  If we put troops in foreign countries, we have to defend them.  Better to get them out in many cases when we really don't care about the territory like Syria or Afghanistan.  It would be marvelous if President Trump did get troops out of these countries. but one has the responsibility of defending them until they can withdraw.

 

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6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

It would be marvelous if President Trump did get troops out of these countries. but one has the responsibility of defending them until they can withdraw.

Is it your belief that the military leadership has somehow changed under Trump so that all defensive measures are NOT being employed?  Why would you assume that our troops in that sandbox are being left defenseless?  The day to day doctrine and mission SOP doesn't fundamentally change due to who is in the Oval Office.  Believe as you will but IMO, this is just another tempest in a teapot like those before it and those that will follow it.

Every service member in Afghanistan should come home and until they do, their chain of command is duty bound to protect them as best they can while completing their mission.  I trust our military leaders to make their best efforts.

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Deep breaths, in and out, in and out. Thanks for your comments, they make perfect sense and your right no one knows where he stands and sadly they are afraid to even ask!!!!!!

When I was growing up during Vietnam friend Manwon,  many of us were opposed to the war, but only a very rabid few took that out on GI's.  Most of us had many former schoolmates in uniform.  It was disgusting then for the liberal SDS type students that did that then.  These days though, it seem conservatives have little respect for the military.  Just the ones who are not captured, wounded, or killed in the line of duty.  

Sometimes I think the draft was a good thing.  It put all of us at risk, except the ones who fled the country.  I never thought about saying having sex without a condom and being worried about VD was my Vietnam.

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