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crystal sage

7.2 million-Year-Old Pre-Human Fossil Suggest

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crystal sage
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A new analysis of two 7.2 million-year-old fossils belonging to a hominin species nicknamed “El Graeco” from Mediterranean Europe, suggests that mankind emerged in Europe and not in Africa. The new study could reshape history, since it openly challenges the “out of Africa theory.”

https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/72-million-year-old-pre-human-fossil-suggests-mankind-arose-europe-not-africa?fbclid=IwAR0rOVg7AxhtA4Q3aTkSf9Qnk_Ybd7wFRNEu53YLTBkl_SScORjKFSIccDM

 

 

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Therefore, we submit that the dental root attributes of Graecopithecus suggest hominin affinities, such that its hominin status cannot be excluded. If this status is confirmed by additional fossil evidence, Graecopithecus would be the oldest known hominin and the oldest known crown hominine, as the evidence for the gorillin status of Chororapithecus is much weaker than the hominin status of Graecopithecus [8]. More fossils are needed but at this point it seems likely that the Eastern Mediterranean needs to be considered as just as likely a place of hominine diversification and hominin origins as tropical Africa.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0177127

 

 

 

;) wouldn't it be funny if all things did indeed start from Greece ? 

Edited by crystal sage
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crystal sage

more studies... on Bavarian bipeds... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337071249_A_new_Miocene_ape_and_locomotion_in_the_ancestor_of_great_apes_and_humans

 

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. The 11.62-million-year-old Danuvius is a great ape that is dentally most similar to Dryopithecus and other European late Miocene apes. W

 

 

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/danuvius-guggenmosi-07779.html

 

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A previously unknown species of great ape that was well adapted to both walking upright as well as using all four limbs while climbing has been identified from fossils found in southern Germany.

Danuvius guggenmosi combines the hindlimb-dominated bipedality of humans with the forelimb-dominated climbing typical of living apes,” said Professor David Begun, a researcher at the University of Toronto.

“These results suggest that human bipedality evolved in arboreal context over 12 million years ago.”

“In contrast to later hominins, Danuvius guggenmosi had a powerful, opposable big toe, which enabled it to grasp large and small branches securely,” said Professor Nikolai Spassov, from the Bulgarian Academy of Science.

The ribcage was broad and flat, and the lower back was elongated; this helped to position the center of gravity over extended hips, knees and flat feet, as in bipeds.”

The results are supported by a recent study of the hip-bone from the 10 million-year-old ape Rudapithecus hungaricus found in Hungary.

 

 

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crystal sage

 

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, crystal sage said:

@Piney I have many problems with your views on this subject. First there is nothing that indicates that the mandible found is even Hominid, and second your completely over reaching in your conclusion that mans evolution started in Greece. There is n proof of that at this time the theory that mans evolution started in Africa is the only excepted theory at this time.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender

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Piney
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

@Piney I have many problems with your views on this subject. First there is nothing that indicates that the mandible found is even Hominid, and second your completely over reaching in your conclusion that mans evolution started in Greece. There is n proof of that at this time the theory that mans evolution started in Africa is the only excepted theory at this time.

Peace

It's not. It's a ape.

Crystal is trying everything to disprove the long proven "out of Africa theory".

and next time tag me after so it doesn't look like I made such a idiotic statement. :yes:

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crystal sage
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

@Piney I have many problems with your views on this subject. First there is nothing that indicates that the mandible found is even Hominid, and second your completely over reaching in your conclusion that mans evolution started in Greece. There is n proof of that at this time the theory that mans evolution started in Africa is the only excepted theory at this time.

Peace

Did you see the other posts suggesting that the first pre humans may have existed in Germany?Bavaria nearly 12 million years ago...

Quote

The 11.62-million-year-old Danuvius is a great ape that is dentally most similar to Dryopithecus and other European late Miocene apes Danuvius guggenmosi combines the hindlimb-dominated bipedality of humans with the forelimb-dominated climbing typical of living apes,” said Professor David Begun

 

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Manwon Lender
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

It's not. It's a ape.

Crystal is trying everything to disprove the long proven "out of Africa theory".

and next time tag me after so it doesn't look like I made such a idiotic statement. :yes:

Sorry about that, it certainly wasn't my intention. I am a where what she is trying to do, and I certainly don't agree with it at all.

Peace

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Manwon Lender
5 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

Did you see the other posts suggesting that the first pre humans may have existed in Germany?Bavaria nearly 12 million years ago...

 

The theory that humans evolved in German was proposed by Heinrich Himmler as part of his crazy ideas due to the Master Race theory. Himmler and all his buddies were crazy and there is no basis that humans evolved in German.

Peace

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Sir Wearer of Hats

You’re all wrong, Ihave it on good authority that humanity evolved in thr vicinity of a town called Burpengary in Queensland.

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Piney
13 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

Did you see the other posts suggesting that the first pre humans may have existed in Germany?Bavaria nearly 12 million years ago...

 

Homo Erectus spread out about 2 million years ago. The term "pre-human" is long out of date because we know there were many species of human, and what was found in Germany was a unrelated ape.

10 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The theory that humans evolved in German was proposed by Heinrich Himmler as part of his crazy ideas due to the Master Race theory. Himmler and all his buddies were crazy and there is no basis that humans evolved in German.

Crystal posts racist fringe craziness without understanding it's actually racist. Don't fault her. :lol:

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Piney
21 minutes ago, jethrofloyd said:

Well, according to recent theories it is possible that humanity evolved in the todays Catalonia(Spain).some 13 million years ago.

A common ancestor of great apes and humans living in Southern Europe doesn't mean we evolved there. It just means they had a range outside of Africa. 

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jethrofloyd

The thing is Mediterreanean Sea dried up five million years ago. And some of the early human ancestors went up to southern Europe(Greece..) from the Africa.

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Orphalesion

Dear OP, none of those "pre-human" or "human ancestor" you dig up disprove *anything* about Out of Africa.

None of them is our species, Homo sapiens, which did emerge in Africa.
 

If we were to say humans evolved in Greece because some very early ancestor of apes (not even humans apes!) we might as well say humans evolved in the oceans because that's where our earliest ancestors dwelt.

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Cookie Monster
8 hours ago, crystal sage said:

In the ancient past populations didnt move around that much preventing the kind of intermingling we have going on in todays world.

For that reason I dont believe the current narratives about hominids evolving, spreading around the world, and replacing older hominid species, are true. I think some exchange of genes did occur at low rates, and that what we have today is the result of that process over millions of years.

I think thats why people from different parts of the world look so different, I think we are all carrying around archaic DNA from past species that were native to our areas. I also think that if we give it 100 years until a lot more past hominid species are discovered and DNA profiled that we will discover there were quite literally over 100 archaic species of hominids.

The Spanish look different from the English who look different from the Poles who look different from Iraqis who look different from Iranians who look different from Indians, etc, etc. Only very closely related peoples look like each other and I think its because of the differences in DNA we have inherited.

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Hanslune
3 hours ago, Piney said:

Wrong evolutionary branch.

Queenslanders are a case of convergent evolution and developed from the line of the rat to the weasel, eventually leading to the Yorkshireman. 

If you'd listen to the tenets of Shintoism you'd find out that man started in the Islands of Japan......

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Hanslune
10 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

In the ancient past populations didnt move around that much preventing the kind of intermingling we have going on in todays world.

For that reason I dont believe the current narratives about hominids evolving, spreading around the world, and replacing older hominid species, are true. I think some exchange of genes did occur at low rates, and that what we have today is the result of that process over millions of years.

I think thats why people from different parts of the world look so different, I think we are all carrying around archaic DNA from past species that were native to our areas. I also think that if we give it 100 years until a lot more past hominid species are discovered and DNA profiled that we will discover there were quite literally over 100 archaic species of hominids.

The Spanish look different from the English who look different from the Poles who look different from Iraqis who look different from Iranians who look different from Indians, etc, etc. Only very closely related peoples look like each other and I think its because of the differences in DNA we have inherited.

The technical term is "sloshing about', I was just reading about the centuries long journey of the Romani people from northern India to the UK showing up in Scotland in 1505.

100 different archaic species of hominids - I scoff sir at your pretense - I am certain it was not more than 99. I am prepared to duel over this and I choose Harte as my weapon.

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jaylemurph

I see, as usual, CS is here for a detailed argument about understanding sources and working her way through difficult evolutionary concepts and not just ****posting headlines she likes. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Taun

I could resolve this discussion once and for all, if I could just remember where I was when we all woke up one morning as vertebrates rather than sea slime... My memory isn't what it use to be - but then it never was - and I had been drinking at the time...

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Harte
4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

In the ancient past populations didnt move around that much preventing the kind of intermingling we have going on in todays world.

Homo Erectus' known (and guessed at) range. This map was made before the Dmansi skull was described.

map_of_erectus_range.gif

So, yeah, we already knew they got around, and it had already been guessed that they were in Europe as well.

But, again, this has nothing to do with the evolution of Homo Sapiens, which occurred in Africa, as far as the evidence shows.

Harte

 

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XenoFish
8 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You’re all wrong, Ihave it on good authority that humanity evolved in thr vicinity of a town called Burpengary in Queensland.

You're wrong. Humans migrated from Mars after nuking the dinosaurs to extinction.

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Cookie Monster
4 hours ago, Hanslune said:

The technical term is "sloshing about', I was just reading about the centuries long journey of the Romani people from northern India to the UK showing up in Scotland in 1505.

100 different archaic species of hominids - I scoff sir at your pretense - I am certain it was not more than 99. I am prepared to duel over this and I choose Harte as my weapon.

Yes the Romani have moved about forever, but most peoples were fairly homogenous until modern times.

The thing is without the mixing of people then it allows distinctive genetics to emerge in human populations that over time lead to obvious differences.

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cormac mac airt
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Yes the Romani have moved about forever, but most peoples were fairly homogenous until modern times.

The thing is without the mixing of people then it allows distinctive genetics to emerge in human populations that over time lead to obvious differences.

Not really, modern humans/Anatomically Modern Humans (AMH) have been around for some 200,000 - 300,000 years and have been migrating out of Africa for at least the last 125,000 years running into and sometimes mating with other members of our genus Homo. This IS NOT something that's just occurred in "modern times" as you claim. 

For some modern human/AMH events that have happened during the last circa 300,000 years BP: 

circa 315 +/- 34 kya:

Jebel Irhoud remains date to this timeframe.

(https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v546/n7657/full/nature22336.html)

 

Circa 210,000 BP:

Earliest Homo sapiens fossil in Europe from Apidima Cave, Greece

(https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1376-z)

 

circa 202,000 BP (95% 144,000 – 265,000) BP:

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of anatomically modern humans (AMH)

Calibration scenario – Root

(https://www.scienceopen.com/document_file/053a3d14-ffa6-4381-9832-74d16ca5eaef/PubMedCentral/053a3d14-ffa6-4381-9832-74d16ca5eaef.pdf)(August 5, 2014)

 

circa 195,000 +/- 5000 BP:

Omo 1 and Omo II remains; earliest Homo sapiens remains, from Omo Kibish, Ethiopia

(http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v433/n7027/full/nature03258.html)

 

circa 195,000 BP – 177,000 BP:

A maxilla and associated dentition recently discovered at Misliya Cave, Israel, was dated to 177,000 to 194,000 years ago, suggesting that members of the Homo sapiens clade left

Africa earlier than previously thought.

(https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/359/6374/456.full.pdf)

 

circa 160,000 BP:

Herto/Homo sapiens idaltu remains found at Herto Bouri, Ethiopia dating to this time

(http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/herto.html)

 

circa 143,000 BP (95% 112,000 – 180,000) BP:

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of anatomically modern humans (AMH)

Calibration scenario – All tips of the phylogenetic tree

(https://www.scienceopen.com/document_file/053a3d14-ffa6-4381-9832-74d16ca5eaef/PubMedCentral/053a3d14-ffa6-4381-9832-74d16ca5eaef.pdf)(August 5, 2014)

 

circa 130,000 BP:

Human population estimate

Relating the estimated effective population size to the census population size during the Pleistocene is a difficult task because there

are many factors affecting the effective population size (Charlesworth 2009). Nevertheless, based on published estimates of the ratio

between effective and census population size, a comprehensive value on the order of 10% has been found by Frankham (1995). This 10% rule

roughly predicts that 120,000 - 325,000 individuals (depending on the assumed mutation rate) lived in Sub-Saharan Africa some 130 kya.

Assuming that the range of humans extends over all the 24 millions km2 of Sub-Saharan Africa, the density of humans at that time would

have been extremely low between 0.5 and 1.4 individual per 100 km2, which is even lower than the lowest recorded hunter gatherer

density of two individuals per 100 km2 reported for the !Kung (Kelly 1995), and the density of three individuals per 100 km2

estimated for Middle Paleolithic people (Hassan 1981). However, this discrepancy disappears if humans were restricted

to an area some 3–6 times smaller than the entire Sub-Saharan Africa.

(http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/29/7/1851.full.pdf+html)

 

between circa 100,000 BP and 50,000 BP:

It is an open question whether archaic hominins’ deleterious mutation load contributed to their decline and extinction. However, there is

clear evidence that Neanderthals escaped total genetic extinction by interbreeding with the anatomically modern humans

who left Africa between 50 and 100 thousand years ago [1]. In Europeans and Asians, haplotypes of Neanderthal origin have been inferred to comprise

2–4% of each individual’s genome. When pooled together, these Neanderthal haplotypes collectively span about 30% of the human reference

sequence [10, 11]. The introgression of Neanderthal alleles related to hair, skin pigmentation, and immunity appear to have provided non-Africans with adaptive

benefits, perhaps because Neanderthals had preadapted to life in Europe for thousands of years before humans left Africa [10, 11, 12, 13].

However, these positively selected genes represent a tiny fraction of Neanderthal introgression’s genetic legacy. A larger number of

Neanderthal alleles appear to have deleterious fitness effects, with putative links to various diseases as measured by genome-wide association studies [10].

(http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/10/31/030387.full.pdf)

 

between circa 100,000 BP and 35,000 BP:

Modern humans have large and globular brains that distinguish them from their extinct Homo relatives. The characteristic globularity develops

during a prenatal and early postnatal period of rapid brain growth critical for neural wiring and cognitive development. However,

it remains unknown when and how brain globularity evolved and how it relates to evolutionary brain size increase. On the basis of computed

tomographic scans and geometricmorphometric analyses, we analyzed endocranial casts of Homo sapiens fossils (N = 20) from different time periods.

Our data show that, 300,000 years ago, brain size in early H. sapiens already fell within the range of present-day humans. Brain shape, however, evolved gradually

within the H. sapiens lineage, reaching present-day human variation between about 100,000 and 35,000 years ago. This process started only after other key

features of craniofacial morphology appeared modern and paralleled the emergence of behavioral modernity as seen from the archeological record.

Our findings are consistent with important genetic changes affecting early brain development within the H. sapiens lineage since the origin of the species

and before the transition to the Later Stone Age and the Upper Paleolithic that mark full behavioral modernity.

(http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/1/eaao5961/tab-pdf)

 

circa 100,000 BP:

Ancient gene flow from early modern humans into Eastern Neanderthals - Altai Mountains

(http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v530/n7591/full/nature16544.html#access)

 

circa 40,000 BP:

**Neanderthals extinct by this time**

(http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/pdf/nature13621.pdf)

 

Circa 35,000 BP:

it is concluded that roughly 2% of the genetic material found in the Biaka Pygmies and San was inserted into the human genome approximately 35,000 years ago

from archaic hominins that separated from the ancestors of the modern human lineage around 700,000 years ago.

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/37/15123.full.pdf?with-ds=yes

 

circa 10,000 – 4,000 BC:

Light skin first occurred in humans

(http://galsatia.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/blanche_paleur.pdf)

 

And the above doesn't even include the splitting of Y Chromosome DNA or Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroups from their ancestral lines and the migrational patterns of those splits to several thousands of subgroups/haplotypes over the last few hundred thousand years. That's not exactly as homogenous as you'd like others to believe. 

cormac

 

 

Edited by cormac mac airt
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