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Manwon Lender

European Union bans American Travel to Europe

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

Starting 01 July 2020, Americans can no longer travel to the European Union, this is due to the out of control Infection Rate from COVID 19. This is something I never expected to see in my life time, we live in one the most advanced Countries in the World, with the best medical facilities and technology in the World and we are being banned for the rest of the World due to a lack of National policy decisions by our Federal Government. When is the Trump Administration going to put the necessary Federal Guidelines in place to get this situation under control, at this point there is no use in playing the blame game, it's time that our Leadership does the right thing and stops playing political games and takes this situation seriously. The American people deserve better than this, and I hope finally the Trump Administration understands that allowing states to handle this Pandemic without Federal Guidelines was a mistake. President Trump needs to step up, take charge and get this situation under control, denying that this problem exists, or calling it foolish names like the Kungflu isn't funny it's ignorant and President Trump needs to stop acting like a Game Show Host and start acting like a National Leader because being shunned like this is embarrassing on some many levels.

Link concerning the travel Ban

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/26/21300761/european-union-ban-us-visitors-july-1

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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papageorge1

My thought is that the EU is more liberal driven and overreacting a bit here. This virus is going to be around for a year or two or ??? without a vaccine (if ever) and some low risk people don't want to give up years of whatever stage of life they are in.

The hospital system should be already geared up for more and is holding its own quite well with the current tradeoff of openness versus safety. 

Now my critics will twist what I say into saying we should do nothing. I'm just saying we are still managing the tradeoffs well and this latest move strikes me as an overreaction perhaps. We now know the virus is very bad but not as deadly as we first feared,

For me, the loss of quality of life is worse than the danger of the virus. If I get it I will quarantine. High risk people should minimize their exposure to others as much as possible.

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aztek

what about eu members going to usa and back to eu, are there any restrictions for them? 

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Tatetopa
1 minute ago, aztek said:

what about eu members going to usa and back to eu, are there any restrictions for them? 

Kinda like US citizens traveling back from China during the ban.  Doesn't matter what country you come from if you are exposed. The EU people ttraveling back from the US would still seem to be possible carriers.

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Tatetopa
13 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My thought is that the EU is more liberal driven and overreacting a bit here. This virus is going to be around for a year or two or ??? without a vaccine (if ever) and some low risk people don't want to give up years of whatever stage of life they are in.

The hospital system should be already geared up for more and is holding its own quite well with the current tradeoff of openness versus safety. 

Now my critics will twist what I say into saying we should do nothing. I'm just saying we are still managing the tradeoffs well and this latest move strikes me as an overreaction perhaps. We now know the virus is very bad but not as deadly as we first feared,

For me, the loss of quality of life is worse than the danger of the virus. If I get it I will quarantine. High risk people should minimize their exposure to others as much as possible.

Not going to criticize you for that.

But it is not necessarily a matter of just being prepared.

If my country has beaten the virus down, why should I take a risk on  you coming in and infecting me, even if it is just a hospital stay.  That is some pretty heavy duty socialism, all sharing our germs like some big happy family.

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, aztek said:

what about eu members going to usa and back to eu, are there any restrictions for them? 

It is a two way street at this point, starting 01 July 2020 they will not be able to travel here either according to their Governments Guidelines.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My thought is that the EU is more liberal driven and overreacting a bit here. This virus is going to be around for a year or two or ??? without a vaccine (if ever) and some low risk people don't want to give up years of whatever stage of life they are in.

The hospital system should be already geared up for more and is holding its own quite well with the current tradeoff of openness versus safety. 

Now my critics will twist what I say into saying we should do nothing. I'm just saying we are still managing the tradeoffs well and this latest move strikes me as an overreaction perhaps. We now know the virus is very bad but not as deadly as we first feared,

For me, the loss of quality of life is worse than the danger of the virus. If I get it I will quarantine. High risk people should minimize their exposure to others as much as possible.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it is opinions like yours that has put America where it is today concerning COVID 19. There is only one way to beat this Virus, and that is to do so United not Divided, being divided is why things are like they are right now. Now I don't believe you want to see thousands of more people die, or for our national infection rate to Sky Rocket any farther than it recently has. While I totally agree that America needed to reopen, it is also just as obvious that the manner in which this was done was wrong. The current massive spikes in infection prove this, and really cant be disputed logically, so the President and his advisers need to stop playing games and put forward National Policies that can bring this Virus under control, the way he attempted to handle this hasn't worked, so new policies are needed, the American people deserve no less.

Oh and by the way, this isn't an attack on you, just a difference in opinion.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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papageorge1
36 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Not going to criticize you for that.

But it is not necessarily a matter of just being prepared.

If my country has beaten the virus down, why should I take a risk on  you coming in and infecting me, even if it is just a hospital stay.  That is some pretty heavy duty socialism, all sharing our germs like some big happy family.

Actually I can see the unnecessary international travel restrictions as more reasonable than closing local places. At least people have social outlets. International travel is more in the luxury realm.

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papageorge1
29 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it is opinions like yours that has put America where it is today concerning COVID 19. There is only one way to beat this Virus, and that is to do so United not Divided, being divided is why things are like they are right now. Now I don't believe you want to see thousands of more people die, or for our national infection rate to Sky Rocket any farther than it recently has. While I totally agree that America needed to reopen, it is also just as obvious that the manner in which this was done was wrong. The current massive spikes in infection prove this, and really cant be disputed logically, so the President and his advisers need to stop playing games and put forward National Policies that can bring this Virus under control, the way he attempted to handle this hasn't worked, so new policies are needed, the American people deserve no less.

Oh and by the way, this isn't an attack on you, just a difference in opinion.

Peace

I am going to challenge your assertion that the situation is that bad at all in the U.S. now. I see a trade off between quality of life and the coronavirus deaths that disproportionately effect the elderly and those with already compromised (frail) health.
 

I am thinking the trade off now is about right. 

Like a person with a long term disease. He tries to maintain as much normalcy with his normal activities as possible while ‘managing’ his disease.

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Manwon Lender
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

Actually I can see the unnecessary international travel restrictions as more reasonable than closing local places. At least people have social outlets. International travel is more in the luxury realm.

I find it really amazing that people can have a view like you just stated above. So in your opinion it is not the fact that the current infection spikes are occurring, you just don't care about that, and you are happy for the United States to have an even higher Infections Spikes, which will also increase the Nations Death Rates so that people can have Social Outlets. Your welcome to your opinion, but it is mighty cold that you think more deaths are ok so that people can get a Beer, dude that is sad, and very self centered.:(:no: But thank you for making your thoughts clear and tell us how you honestly feel.:cry:

Peace 

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papageorge1
3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I find it really amazing that people can have a view like you just stated above. So in your opinion it is not the fact that the current infection spikes are occurring, you just don't care about that, and you are happy for the United States to have an even higher Infections Spikes, which will also increase the Nations Death Rates so that people can have Social Outlets. Your welcome to your opinion, but it is mighty cold that you think more deaths are ok so that people can get a Beer, dude that is sad, and very self centered.:(:no: But thank you for making your thoughts clear and tell us how you honestly feel.:cry:

Peace 

How far do you want to take it. Why have any unnecessary social activity during a very bad flu season?
 

Lines are always drawn in trade offs.

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Manwon Lender
2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I am going to challenge your assertion that the situation is that bad at all in the U.S. now. I see a trade off between quality of life and the coronavirus deaths that disproportionately effect the elderly and those with already compromised (frail) health.
 

I am thinking the trade off now is about right. 

Like a person with a long term disease. He tries to maintain as much normalcy with his normal activities as possible while ‘managing’ his disease.

Wow, that is very interesting, so what your saying is you would be happy to sacrifice someone you loved to maintain what you call normalcy, don't you think that is kinda sick? As far as asserting how bad the situation is in America, its no longer a Right or Left thing. Now the World is making a determination not based upon Politics, but based upon the obvious effects of the Viral Infections in America at this time, and also by the lack of policies that were never put in place by our Federal Leadership. You see no other country in the world has made this Pandemic a Political issue like our current Leaders have. The rest of the World has put their Politics aside in favor of what is best for their Nations, it is obvious that they can see that our Leadership is failing it people, and this is the reason they have banned Americans from the European Union, not because of the infection rate, but because nothing is being dome to curve it. Like I have said, you are welcome to your beliefs and I hope you can live with the consequences of those beliefs if they personally effect the lives of those you love.:cry:

Peace 

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Manwon Lender
8 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

How far do you want to take it. Why have any unnecessary social activity during a very bad flu season?
 

Lines are always drawn in trade offs.

Yes lines are drawn, and I can live with what I believe concerning this situation, but your comparison of this Pandemic to a bad Flu Season is Ludacris and completely ridiculous and so long as the trade offs involve you, I really could careless, because that is your choice and you will have to live with the consequences of your beliefs not me.

Peace 

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Wow, that is very interesting, so what your saying is you would be happy to sacrifice someone you loved to maintain what you call normalcy, don't you think that is kinda sick? 

Can you back up and show where I am happy about anything related to this situation.

Do you register the concept of ‘hard trade off’. They’re  part of life.

Edited by papageorge1
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Manwon Lender
5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Can you back up and show where I am happy about anything related to this situation.

Do you register the concept of ‘hard trade off’. They’re  part of life.

So you would be ok to sacrifice some one you love for your beliefs then?

I understand what a trade off is, but necessary trade offs or trade offs that could be prevented are not part of life, those trade off are due to ignorance, being self center, and a totally lack of empathy for others that your choices effect.:no:

Peace

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papageorge1
1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

So you would be ok to sacrifice some one you love for your beliefs then?

I guess you are trying to not understand the concept of ‘trade off’.

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

I understand what a trade off is, but necessary trade offs or trade offs that could be prevented are not part of life, those trade off are due to ignorance, being self center, and a totally lack of empathy for others that your choices effect.:no:

Peace

So what if your loved one died in a very bad flu epidemic spread by people in unnecessary social situations.

Edited by papageorge1

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

So what if your loved one died in a very bad flu epidemic spread by people in unnecessary social situations.

Since you will not answer the question you have been asked repeatedly , so it obviously not ok with you if one of family members dies because of your beliefs . You see unless you are willing to allow for the fact that your action could result in the death of one of your family members your position on this subject is not defensible. So I see no reason to continue this exchange with you, all I can says good luck with you belief concerning this subject.:)

Peace 

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papageorge1
57 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Since you will not answer the question you have been asked repeatedly , so it obviously not ok with you if one of family members dies because of your beliefs . You see unless you are willing to allow for the fact that your action could result in the death of one of your family members your position on this subject is not defensible. So I see no reason to continue this exchange with you, all I can says good luck with you belief concerning this subject.:)

Peace 

WHAT?? Manwon? 

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

International travel is more in the luxury realm.

There is business of course.  When working in aerospace, I got sent to Europe 3 times and Japan once.  Its cool when you are 30, not so much at 50.  When the company pays the bill, there is no luxury.

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seanjo
6 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Starting 01 July 2020, Americans can no longer travel to the European Union, this is due to the out of control Infection Rate from COVID 19. This is something I never expected to see in my life time, we live in one the most advanced Countries in the World, with the best medical facilities and technology in the World and we are being banned for the rest of the World due to a lack of National policy decisions by our Federal Government. When is the Trump Administration going to put the necessary Federal Guidelines in place to get this situation under control, at this point there is no use in playing the blame game, it's time that our Leadership does the right thing and stops playing political games and takes this situation seriously. The American people deserve better than this, and I hope finally the Trump Administration understands that allowing states to handle this Pandemic without Federal Guidelines was a mistake. President Trump needs to step up, take charge and get this situation under control, denying that this problem exists, or calling it foolish names like the Kungflu isn't funny it's ignorant and President Trump needs to stop acting like a Game Show Host and start acting like a National Leader because being shunned like this is embarrassing on some many levels.

Link concerning the travel Ban

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/26/21300761/european-union-ban-us-visitors-july-1

Peace

Is the rising infection rate anything to do with the thousands of people congregating to protest?

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Manwon Lender
24 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Is the rising infection rate anything to do with the thousands of people congregating to protest?

I would suspect that is part of the problem, but I don't know for certain. However, as of today we broke a record, in a single day we had 40,000 plus infections, so when you think about that there is certainly a problem  somewhere.

Peace

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RAyMO
Posted (edited)

I can understand why the EU have adopted this policy - yes it will hit a variety of groups, holiday makers and businesses being the first two that come to mind. 

For Holiday makers it is not that big an issue, a Holiday is just that and the USA is a very big country. there are certain to be places individuals haven't explored. 

For Businesses - hopefully some good will come from this - where I live various people are working from home - their employers have made it known that this will be the new norm (a positive imo). Likewise it would be a long term positive if we could restrict business travel to essential travel. Too many business trips are for meetings at which no physical presence is really required. 

For others there will be hardships, for example travel to meet family or more importantly, support family. 

USA get your act together - get the virus under control - knuckle down hard for a few weeks and get out the other end ready to go forward again in strength. 

Setting aside all the negatives that Covid brings, now is a chance for real change in how we operate as businesses, as governments , as communities potentially to the benefit of all. 

Edited by RAyMO
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TigerBright19

This might be far out there, but maybe a study was carried out which proved that Americans are much less likely to obey social distancing and hygiene rules, and they are potentially a threat to Europe.  If it was proven that Americans can't follow the rules in America then naturally the EU will not permit them into any EU territory even if there is just a few rotten apples in the barrel that spoil it for all Americans - like the back row of noisy kids in class who get the entire class detention.  Is it true that Americans have to pretend to be Canadian when they visit Europe just to feel welcome?

 

 

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Arbenol
34 minutes ago, TigerBright19 said:

 Is it true that Americans have to pretend to be Canadian when they visit Europe just to feel welcome?

 

Not just Europe.

All they have to do is reduce the volume of their voices and they'd be indistinguishable to most people. It's the noise that gives them away. 

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