Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories

[Unusual Tournament]

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories speculate about possible visits to or interactions with the Americas, the indigenous peoples of the Americas, or both, by people from Africa, Asia, Europe, or Oceania at a time prior to Christopher Columbus' first voyage to the Caribbean in 1492 (i.e. during any part of the so-called pre-Columbian era).^[1] Such contact is accepted as having occurred in prehistory during the human migrations that led to the original settlement of the Americas, but has been hotly debated in the historic period.^[2]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories}

[Piney]

The Columbian Exchange negates anything but the most limited contact. Archaeology shows it was the Norse and maybe Basque and Breton fishermen. 

 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Columbian Exchange negates anything but the most limited contact. Archaeology shows it was the Norse and maybe Basque and Breton fishermen. 

 

I think you'll find the Greeks had alot of knowledge on the North Atlantic also. 

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

I think you'll find the Greeks had alot of knowledge on the North Atlantic also. 

They were coast huggers. 

[Unusual Tournament]

https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/did-ancient-greeks-sail-to-canada/

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

They were coast huggers. 

In On the Face Which Appears in the Orb of the Moon, often called simply De Facie, several characters discuss whether the moon is another Earth, whether it has life, and other philosophical questions. In one section, a character recounts meeting a stranger who had recently returned from a long voyage to a distant “great continent.” According to the stranger, new travelers would make the trip roughly every 30 years, when the planet Saturn appeared in the constellation Taurus. Some travelers stayed behind on the continent and some would have returned, Liritzis explains.

 

Based on a close reading of Plutarch’s text, Liritzis and his colleagues claim that this great continent is in fact North America. In the paper, the team argue that the Greeks could have used their detailed knowledge of astronomy to pinpoint the locations of Atlantic currents that could have borne them west.

 

The researchers’ close reading of De Facie leans on geography as well. In the text, Plutarch includes heading and distance estimates for the stranger’s trip, which Liritzis and his colleagues included in their calculations. For instance, Plutarch wrote that the “great continent” lies beyond the isle of Ogygia, which, according to the text, is itself a five-day trip by trireme west from Britain. Plutarch also wrote that the Greek settlers accessed the “great continent” through a bay that lines up with the Volga River delta, the northern entrance to the Caspian Sea. Using Google Earth, Liritzis drew a line from this location across the Atlantic, and found it led to the Gulf of Saint Lawrence. Liritzis rejects counterproposals that the putative great continent could have been Ireland, the Azores, or a location nearer to the Strait of Gibraltar, at the mouth of the Mediterranean.

 

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/did-ancient-greeks-sail-to-canada/

So where are the ship rats, yersina pestis and animal pox in Canada prior to 1492?  

The Columbian Exchange negates this. 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Piney said:

So where are the ship rats, yersina pestis and animal pox in Canada prior to 1492?  

The Columbian Exchange negates this. 

Great point. Still we have Plutarch. He was a serious scholar. The information he provides matches up. 

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

Great point. Still we have Plutarch. He was a serious scholar. The information he provides matches up. 

For Ireland.

The Greeks were never here, and I'm sick of nationalistic claims to make certain European groups the "discoverers" and "claimers" of NA. 

The Greeks had neither the tech, nor the knowledge of the currents to make a crossing. Let alone return

This conversation is over.

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Piney said:

For Ireland.

The Greeks were never here, and I'm sick of nationalistic claims to make certain European groups the "discoverers" and "claimers" of NA. 

The Greeks had neither the tech, nor the knowledge of the currents to make a crossing. Let alone return

This conversation is over.

The Greeks had the tech and the ships to do it. They travelled regularly to the British Isles and it would seem further. They were well acquainted with the legend  of hypoborea to provide inspiration. No on is insulting your people. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

34 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories speculate about possible visits to or interactions with the Americas, the indigenous peoples of the Americas, or both, by people from Africa, Asia, Europe, or Oceania at a time prior to Christopher Columbus' first voyage to the Caribbean in 1492 (i.e. during any part of the so-called pre-Columbian era).^[1] Such contact is accepted as having occurred in prehistory during the human migrations that led to the original settlement of the Americas, but has been hotly debated in the historic period.^[2]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories}

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

The Greeks had the tech and the ships to do it. They travelled regularly to the British Isles and it would seem further. They were well acquainted with the legend  of hypoborea to provide inspiration. No on is insulting your people. 

They hugged the coast to the British Isles along with the Phoenicians and most of the tin trade was actually overland and inland. It a Greek ship accidentally made it to North America they never made it back and if they made a back and forth trips we would of had their diseases. 

It's nationalist dung. 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Piney said:

They hugged the coast to the British Isles along with the Phoenicians and most of the tin trade was actually overland and inland. It a Greek ship accidentally made it to North America they never made it back and if they made a back and forth trips we would of had their diseases. 

It's nationalist dung. 

Why is it nationalist when there is a Roman writer that has written about it. 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

Why is it nationalist when there is a Roman writer that has written about it. 

He was describing Ireland and a Greek writer decided it was N.A. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

He was describing Ireland and a Greek writer decided it was N.A. 

That well might be the case or it isn't.  

[Unusual Tournament]

@Piney the question here is was it possible ?

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

That well might be the case or it isn't.  

I think it's utter B.S. that the Greeks sailed back and forth to NA. 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Piney said:

I think it's utter B.S. that the Greeks sailed back and forth to NA. 

Thats your call and i respect it. The article quoted mentions that the ancient Greeks made this trip every 30 years according to the star patterns. The ancient Greeks didn't need to travel this way to get to Britain or Ireland.  

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

@Piney the question here is was it possible ?

Possible? Yes, a accidental voyage is. Probable, no and their chances of getting back the way the Atlantic current runs without starving is slim to none. 

[Duke Wellington]

36 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories speculate about possible visits to or interactions with the Americas, the indigenous peoples of the Americas, or both, by people from Africa, Asia, Europe, or Oceania at a time prior to Christopher Columbus' first voyage to the Caribbean in 1492 (i.e. during any part of the so-called pre-Columbian era).^[1] Such contact is accepted as having occurred in prehistory during the human migrations that led to the original settlement of the Americas, but has been hotly debated in the historic period.^[2]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories}

Montezuma of the Aztecs left a written account of contact with the Spanish which was translated by some of the translators with Cortes.

He explains that in Aztec history they didn`t build their cities and weren`t the original occupants. He says that white people from across the eastern ocean built them before leaving. He goes on to say that their religion states one day they will return, reconquer their lands, create new countries, and destroy Aztec civilization.

With the Greeks they also had the Atlantis myth saying it was opposite the pillar of Hercules which Central America is.

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

Thats your call and i respect it. The article quoted mentions that the ancient Greeks made this trip every 30 years according to the star patterns. The ancient Greeks didn't need to travel this way to get to Britain or Ireland.  

So where's the pre-contact black rats in Canada? 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Possible? Yes, a accidental voyage is. Probable, no and their chances of getting back the way the Atlantic current runs without starving is slim to none. 

Plutarch says every 30 years according to the stars navigating, That would make it a generational trip. We know the Greeks were big colonists and traders. Were there any Greek colonies in Britain or Ireland? No there were not. 

[Piney]

Just now, Cookie Monster said:

He explains that in Aztec history they didn`t build their cities and weren`t the original occupants. He says that white people from across the eastern ocean built them before leaving. He goes on to say that their religion states one day they will return, reconquer their lands, create new countries, and destroy Aztec civilization.

Racist and clueless...... 

So what's your source for this poop? 

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

With the Greeks they also had the Atlantis myth saying it was opposite the pillar of Hercules which Central America is.

Atlantis was never a "myth" it was as Plato, the author said "a work of fiction". 

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

Were there any Greek colonies in Britain or Ireland? No there were not. 

For the same reason no other Southern group left a genetic marker.

Miserable weather....

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

For the same reason no other Southern group left a genetic marker.

Miserable weather....

Well we don't know that for sure.