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docyabut2

Police Reform ?

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docyabut2

 They cut down the police .? 911,   if its a rape press 1, if its a robbery press 2, if its a murder press 3 and we will get back with you :)

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South Alabam
3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 They cut down the police .? 911,   if its a rape press 1, if its a robbery press 2, if its a murder press 3 and we will get back with you :)

I think instead of cutting down on Police, it should be 100% accountability from the Police. They work for us in case they ever forget.

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Tatetopa

Do we have some kind of fear that if we don't let cops take bribes once in a while or beat up people they don't like that we won't be able to get "good" people to be police anymore?

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acidhead
#bluelivesmatter
UPDATED 1:30 PM PT — Saturday, July 4, 2020

A community in Toledo, Ohio is mourning the loss of an officer who was recently killed in the line of duty. Officer Anthony Dia was allegedly shot while responding to a call of an intoxicated man, who was roaming the parking lot of a Home Depot just after midnight on Saturday.

Upon arriving at the scene, Dia reportedly approached the man. The suspect then turned around and shot him in the chest before fleeing the scene.

The officer was rushed to the hospital, where he was later pronounced dead. According to police, the unidentified suspect fled the scene and was found in the woods behind the store with a self-inflicted fatal gunshot wound.

 

During a recent press conference, Toledo’s mayor detailed the moment Officer Dia was removed from his hospital room. Around 20 officers, who were emotional over the loss of their brother in blue, saluted Dia as he was wheeled out.

“I will never forget the sight of Officer Dia being wheeled out of the hospital on a gurney, his body wrapped in an American flag,” added Kapszukiewicz.

 

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kartikg
55 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Do we have some kind of fear that if we don't let cops take bribes once in a while or beat up people they don't like that we won't be able to get "good" people to be police anymore?

Not every mishap should be turned into wage cuts or suspension. It's not a typical job, that has to be understood, they are dealing with people who can and will harm or kill them. There should be leniency in certain aspects for them. 

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and then
4 hours ago, South Alabam said:

I think instead of cutting down on Police, it should be 100% accountability from the Police. They work for us in case they ever forget.

This sounds very reasonable but things are hardly ever so clear-cut.  The reforms that I've seen from the Democrats are actually sane and rational except that they want a mechanism to hold cops accountable that would surely be used to allow civilians to "take revenge" in an official way.  No more choke holds?  I agree.  No more no knock warrants?  Right there with ya.  But if a review system is set up where any civilian can accuse a cop and that action appears on their record without it being investigated to confirm its validity then that just amounts to a formalized means of "revenge".

Last- if cops are to be faced with civil and criminal lawsuits and have no immunity at all, watch the numbers of quality, dedicated individuals in that career, plummet.

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Kittens Are Jerks
18 minutes ago, and then said:

This sounds very reasonable but things are hardly ever so clear-cut.  The reforms that I've seen from the Democrats are actually sane and rational except that they want a mechanism to hold cops accountable that would surely be used to allow civilians to "take revenge" in an official way.  No more choke holds?  I agree.  No more no knock warrants?  Right there with ya.  But if a review system is set up where any civilian can accuse a cop and that action appears on their record without it being investigated to confirm its validity then that just amounts to a formalized means of "revenge".

Last- if cops are to be faced with civil and criminal lawsuits and have no immunity at all, watch the numbers of quality, dedicated individuals in that career, plummet.

Are you aware of anything that has been put forward to protect 'good cops'? I've seen discussions about it, but nothing in the way of tangible proposals. The good cops are integral to police reform, but if they continue to be punished for speaking up, I can't see meaningful reforms happening. There's all kinds of dysfunction in a system where bad cops are protected, but those who report corruption, abuse, etc., are frequently demoted, transferred or outright fired.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, kartikg said:

Not every mishap should be turned into wage cuts or suspension. It's not a typical job, that has to be understood, they are dealing with people who can and will harm or kill them. There should be leniency in certain aspects for them. 

Indeed there should.  But there should be no secret .under the table. body cam off hits to the head or kicks to the groin..

There are people who will harm them, I get that and I respect their courage.

They sometimes have to subdue, they sometimes may need to shoot. That is their job.  Their job is not to mete out additional punishment or kill someone because they don't like their face.  No King's high, middle, and low justice any more, just enforce the law.

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South Alabam
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kartikg said:

Not every mishap should be turned into wage cuts or suspension. It's not a typical job, that has to be understood, they are dealing with people who can and will harm or kill them. There should be leniency in certain aspects for them. 

I agree. But the Police do a lot of things that bring scrutiny to themselves. Like turning off the body cam before a deadly incident or beating. Supplying an edited Dash cam video which shows nothing. Things like that. This is the type of accountability I am calling for, and the cameras which should bolster their case, we find turned off instead. The Police collect evidence and also suppress it to cover their misconduct. So in some places they are defunding the Police in an effort to control them. We'll see how that works. 

 

Edited by South Alabam
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South Alabam
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Are you aware of anything that has been put forward to protect 'good cops'? I've seen discussions about it, but nothing in the way of tangible proposals. The good cops are integral to police reform, but if they continue to be punished for speaking up, I can't see meaningful reforms happening. There's all kinds of dysfunction in a system where bad cops are protected, but those who report corruption, abuse, etc., are frequently demoted, transferred or outright fired.

I'd personally like to see every Police shooting, civil rights violation charge and things of this nature investigated by an outside agency such as the FBI. There is too much mistrust, and rightfully so in many cases to let the Police "investigate themselves" Let the FBI come in and start investigating shootings. They try and hamper the investigation? Obstruction of justice charge.  Bodycam turned off or edited of the encounter? Arrest anyone who tries to edit, delete, erase or modify any camera evidence or interfere in any way, shape, or form during their investigation. And when they perjure themselves in front of the FBI, this Blue wall of silence would slowly start to fall.        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

Edited by South Alabam
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Tatetopa
6 hours ago, and then said:

But if a review system is set up where any civilian can accuse a cop and that action appears on their record without it being investigated to confirm its validity then that just amounts to a formalized means of "revenge".

That would be a time when a body cam is the cop's friend.  False accusation is likely a criminal offense now I would think. If a person accuses an officer falsely and the video recording proves that, they should be charged with an offense.

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South Alabam
19 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

That would be a time when a body cam is the cop's friend.  False accusation is likely a criminal offense now I would think. If a person accuses an officer falsely and the video recording proves that, they should be charged with an offense.

Exactly. Bodycams are a good cops best friend, and a bad cops nightmare. 

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

its sad that more police are killed :( they save lives

Edited by docyabut2
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Jarocal
21 hours ago, South Alabam said:

Exactly. Bodycams are a good cops best friend, and a bad cops nightmare. 

There are times when the body camera can be a detriment to even the good cops. If say they are chatting with their CI, they probably don't want the videotape of that conversation dumped during an FOIA request. Without the ability to turn it off, they may find some in the community will be less likely to provide information if they won't be doing it with anonymity. 

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

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Peter B
12 hours ago, Jarocal said:

There are times when the body camera can be a detriment to even the good cops. If say they are chatting with their CI, they probably don't want the videotape of that conversation dumped during an FOIA request. Without the ability to turn it off, they may find some in the community will be less likely to provide information if they won't be doing it with anonymity. 

You raise good points. I'd like to think there'd be some way to keep some information exempt from being released. But obviously this is something that would need to be managed carefully so that bad police can't exploit that to their benefit. As for people not necessarily wanting to be recorded giving information to the police, I'd like to think there are ways people can pass information to the police anonymously.

But I think South Alabam's point stands: body cameras are a good police officer's best friend. And in more ways than you might imagine: showing the video to a defendant's lawyer is likely to lead to quick guilty pleas, and likely to minimise false or vexatious complaints against police. I'd like to think that their use will become as uncontroversial as electronic recording of interviews.

In the case of Rayshard Brooks, the body cam video shows an interaction between Brooks and the police that went on for half an hour during which the police interacted respectfully with Brooks. The video then showed how quickly everything turned bad...

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

President Donald Trump's campaign released an ad Thursday on what it would be like if the police were defunded.

A phone rings and the answering service responds: "You have reached the 911 police emergency line. Due to defunding of the police department, we're sorry but no one is here to take your call. If you're calling to report a rape, please press 1. To report a murder, press 2. To report a home invasion, press 3. For all other crimes, leave your name and number and someone will get back to you. Our estimated wait time is currently 5 days. Goodbye."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/07/02/trump_ad_on_what_happens_if_police_are_defunded_our_estimated_wait_time_is_currently_5_days.html

 

wish I could find that ad that was on tv

Edited by docyabut2
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Jarocal
7 minutes ago, Peter B said:

But I think South Alabam's point stands: body cameras are a good police officer's best friend. And in more ways than you might imagine: showing the video to a defendant's lawyer is likely to lead to quick guilty pleas, and likely to minimise false or vexatious complaints against police. I'd like to think that their use will become as uncontroversial as electronic recording of interviews.

I agree overall that mandatory body cam usage will benefit police/community interactions.

The extent to which that footage be released unredacted to the public could become a potential source of contention.

If the PD or DA's office performs the redaction of sensitive footage such as I mentioned, there will be people in the community wondering why there is a time gap in the footage and what the police don't want the public to see.

If an independent public council is employed to ascertain the validity of a specific redaction, there will be leaks potentially unintended, because those people may not be versed in handling classified information. They may withhold names and dates giving what they think is a vague description but impart enough information that other parties intimately involved can with a probable certainty deduce who was leaking information about them to the cops.

Again, I am not against body cameras, what I am advocating is that the legislative bodies who may implement more widespread use of the technology provide a method within the process to address such foreseeable occurances. The police cannot make such process controls, nor can the DA's office. Only the legislative branches from the municipal up through the federal level can effectively create these processes. The onus is on them to stop with their rhetorical pandering about community based policing (from both sides of the aisle) and perform the job asked of them when they were elected to their office. 

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Peter B
38 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

President Donald Trump's campaign released an ad Thursday on what it would be like if the police were defunded.

A phone rings and the answering service responds: "You have reached the 911 police emergency line. Due to defunding of the police department, we're sorry but no one is here to take your call. If you're calling to report a rape, please press 1. To report a murder, press 2. To report a home invasion, press 3. For all other crimes, leave your name and number and someone will get back to you. Our estimated wait time is currently 5 days. Goodbye."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/07/02/trump_ad_on_what_happens_if_police_are_defunded_our_estimated_wait_time_is_currently_5_days.html

 

wish I could find that ad that was on tv

I'm sure there are many who would buy into such ads.

But how many of them have previously voiced their support for homeowners who have shot and killed actual or suspected burglars, because they claim the police are too slow to respond anyway.

As for the concept of defunding police, I don't support the idea of abolishing police altogether, and I get the impression neither do most 'defunders'. But there are certainly arguments for considering whether better use could be made of government budgets by directing a greater proportion towards programs dealing with the underlying causes of issues the police are currently dealing with - homelessness, drug dependency, delinquency and the like.

It's just a cheap shot to imply that any reduction in a police force's budget is going to lead to something like the situation suggested in the ad.

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docyabut2
19 minutes ago, Peter B said:

I'm sure there are many who would buy into such ads.

But how many of them have previously voiced their support for homeowners who have shot and killed actual or suspected burglars, because they claim the police are too slow to respond anyway.

As for the concept of defunding police, I don't support the idea of abolishing police altogether, and I get the impression neither do most 'defunders'. But there are certainly arguments for considering whether better use could be made of government budgets by directing a greater proportion towards programs dealing with the underlying causes of issues the police are currently dealing with - homelessness, drug dependency, delinquency and the like.

It's just a cheap shot to imply that any reduction in a police force's budget is going to lead to something like the situation suggested in the ad.

that what's was suggested could happen, if Biden wins that keeps the cut down on police

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Myles

I'm for defunding the police in just this one way.   Do away with all the local Internal Affairs which many times are buddies of the officers.   Create a separate remote department that handles all complaints and investigations.  Officers will know that they will be held accountable.   An officer like Chauvin who had 16-17 prior complaints would have at minimum gone through some sort of evaluation and knew that he was on thin ice.

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Peter B
23 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

that what's was suggested could happen, if Biden wins that keeps the cut down on police

Just remember you're talking about a political ad designed to influence people in how they vote. That doesn't mean it's a true fact from the future.

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aztek
On 7/4/2020 at 4:55 PM, kartikg said:

Not every mishap should be turned into wage cuts or suspension. It's not a typical job, that has to be understood, they are dealing with people who can and will harm or kill them. There should be leniency in certain aspects for them. 

the issue is they treat everyone, like they are trying to harm or kill them, 

but this is also true.

Image may contain: text that says '112 PEOPLE SHOT IN NYC IN 2 WEEKS. NONE BY THE NYPD. MAYBE THEY'RE NOT THE PROBLEM???'

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