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aztek

Coronavirus herd immunity may be unachievable

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aztek
  • A major new study in one of Europe's worst affected countries for the coronavirus finds no evidence of widespread immunity to the virus developing.

  • Just 5% of Spaniards were detected to have antibodies to the virus.

  • Fourteen percent of people who previously tested positive for antibodies tested negative just weeks later.

  • The study suggests people who experience mild symptoms do not have long-lasting protection.

  • "Immunity can be incomplete, it can be transitory, it can last for just a short time and then disappear," Raquel Yotti, the director of Spain's Carlos III Health Institute, said.

  • Another scientist involved said: "In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable.

  • https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-may-unachievable-121847378.html

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glorybebe

if we can't achieve herd immunity,  we are hooped.  If it keeps mutating, an inoculation will not save us either 

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aztek
1 minute ago, glorybebe said:

if we can't achieve herd immunity,  we are hooped.  If it keeps mutating, an inoculation will not save us either 

yep, however according to my friend nurse,  cases in nyc are much less numerous now, and less severe, not as deadly as before, it mutates to less lethal form. 

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glorybebe
4 minutes ago, aztek said:

yep, however according to my friend nurse,  cases in nyc are much less numerous now, and less severe, not as deadly as before, it mutates to less lethal form. 

I sure hope so.

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seanjo

Sweden tried the herd immunity route, but it seems to have largely failed.

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L.A.T.1961

It does not explain why there are no significant numbers confirmed with covid and then being infected again. They should be there to see in the statistics.

When this idea was floated several months ago a study found all those who were thought to be reinfected cases had previously received false positive tests. They never had covid the first time.

Its also interesting these results come from Spain just when its government is bringing back big lock downs, a coincidence ?

maybe. 

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and then
Posted (edited)

If this data proves accurate and the day ever comes when the virus is PROVEN to have been engineered and released, then it will be a Casus Belli  against those who chose to unleash it on the world.  They should be show as much mercy as they had for the innocent.  

Edited by and then
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seanjo
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, and then said:

If this data proves accurate and the day ever comes when the virus is PROVEN to have been engineered and released, then it will be a Casus Belli  against those who chose to unleash it on the world.  They should be show as much mercy as they had for the innocent.  

It may have been "engineered", but I don't believe it was released deliberately. The lab where it is supposed to have originated had pretty sloppy safety by some accounts. That's the lab just 300 metres from the wet market they originally said it originated. The CCP and the WHO have a lot to answer for.

Edited by seanjo

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Helen of Annoy
2 hours ago, seanjo said:

It may have been "engineered", but I don't believe it was released deliberately. The lab where it is supposed to have originated had pretty sloppy safety by some accounts. That's the lab just 300 metres from the wet market they originally said it originated. The CCP and the WHO have a lot to answer for.

 

But you'll have to answer the time travelling machine question first. 

 

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-08/First-COVID-19-cases-in-France-date-back-to-November-QjPChuck9y/index.html

Doctors at the Albert Schweitzer Hospital of Colmar in eastern France said they've found evidence that the earliest COVID-19 cases in the country can be traced back to November 16, according to a press release from the hospital on Thursday.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/06/19/when-did-the-coronavirus-outbreak-start-italy-is-latest-to-say-earlier-than-previously-thought/#3ced651d171f

Scientists in Italy say they have found evidence of the virus that causes Covid-19 in sewage water dating from December, two months before the country's first reported infection and before China confirmed what are believed to be the first cases, posing questions about the timeline of the pandemic.

 

It becomes very apparent that the place where COVID19 was isolated (Wuhan in China) was not the site of the initial transfer of the infection to humans.

By the "he who smelt it deal it" logic, trumpers released engineered virus in the EU and China. They fit the profile, since they're the only group of people with access to bioweapons and no access to brains. (I'm just joking about trumpers releasing the virus, military would never let them do that, but someone has to tell them how counter-productive their conspiracies are.) 

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Nnicolette
18 hours ago, aztek said:

yep, however according to my friend nurse,  cases in nyc are much less numerous now, and less severe, not as deadly as before, it mutates to less lethal form. 

I was going to say... The media in US keeps getting frantic about the rise infections, but the mortality rate continues to drop, apparently %100 unperturbed by the change from lockdown to mass protests. I would say this is evidence enough.

 

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Nnicolette
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

But you'll have to answer the time travelling machine question first. 

 

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-08/First-COVID-19-cases-in-France-date-back-to-November-QjPChuck9y/index.html

Doctors at the Albert Schweitzer Hospital of Colmar in eastern France said they've found evidence that the earliest COVID-19 cases in the country can be traced back to November 16, according to a press release from the hospital on Thursday.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/06/19/when-did-the-coronavirus-outbreak-start-italy-is-latest-to-say-earlier-than-previously-thought/#3ced651d171f

Scientists in Italy say they have found evidence of the virus that causes Covid-19 in sewage water dating from December, two months before the country's first reported infection and before China confirmed what are believed to be the first cases, posing questions about the timeline of the pandemic.

 

It becomes very apparent that the place where COVID19 was isolated (Wuhan in China) was not the site of the initial transfer of the infection to humans.

By the "he who smelt it deal it" logic, trumpers released engineered virus in the EU and China. They fit the profile, since they're the only group of people with access to bioweapons and no access to brains. (I'm just joking about trumpers releasing the virus, military would never let them do that, but someone has to tell them how counter-productive their conspiracies are.) 

And from simple observation a huge amount of people in the US got it between Nov - Feb.... But nobody wants to believe that the somewhat majority who claim that are right... We are all apparently imagining it :rolleyes:  Interesting how not one of the people who say they already had it seem to have gotten sick again. 

Edited by Nnicolette
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Nnicolette
16 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It does not explain why there are no significant numbers confirmed with covid and then being infected again. They should be there to see in the statistics.

When this idea was floated several months ago a study found all those who were thought to be reinfected cases had previously received false positive tests. They never had covid the first time.

Its also interesting these results come from Spain just when its government is bringing back big lock downs, a coincidence ?

maybe. 

Also the fact that so many tests are false positive leaves little question as to how the patients were infected. Jam an infected qtip all the way into your head and see if you get it!

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L.A.T.1961
2 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Also the fact that so many tests are false positive leaves little question as to how the patients were infected. Jam an infected qtip all the way into your head and see if you get it!

I would hope that's not the case but a tiny number could become infected during testing. IMO Its still far more useful taking a test than not for tracking the virus and personal information. 

The Spanish research found 5% of tested had antibodies, which is also the estimated number in the country thought to have had the virus.

The tests were done well into the outbreak, why did the numbers match when they first did tests and then less had antibodies some weeks later? Surly if there was a fall in antibodies over time it would be there from the start and less folks in the first test batch would have antibodies compared to estimated, 5%, country wide contagion rates? 

One thing is certain if the population are told they might not have immunity it helps to keep them all inside and observing lock down rules. ;)

 

 

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stereologist

Have there been reinfections? That is a tougher question than you might think? The original stories of reinfection came from anecdotal sources such as people that had been on one of the cruise ships. They turned out to be all relapses; they felt better and then became worse. Other cases of potential reinfection turned out to also be incorrect such as some cases in South Korea. But we all know that we get other coronaviruses repeatedly. Some forms of the common cold are due to coronaviruses. 

Is the coronavirus mutating to a less deadly form? The evidence is anecdotal. Often viruses do that. Deadly ones cannot spread easily if they kill their hosts. But the evidence is not there for the various strains of SARS-CoV-2. There are suggestions that it is becoming less lethal. Even then the numbers are still 6 times the lethality of the seasonal flu.

Everyone seems to still think that the outcomes of getting sick are you die or you do not die. That is not the case. Many people are alive but have suffered permanent major organ damage. The damage to lungs, heart, kidneys, etc. can be permanent. 

But herd immunity is apparently not happening. Just as we do not have herd immunity from influenza we may not have herd immunity from COVID-19. There many be a yearly vaccine to take at some point in the future.

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Solipsi Rai

Coronaviruses like 3 kinds found in humans (i.e. the common cold along with related Rhinoviruses and Adenoviruses) and influenzas have short periods of antibody type of immunity, from 6 months to 2 years. There are diseases like pertussis (whooping cough) which there's a vaccine for, but requires repeated shots in every few years, so if there's a COVID vaccine soon, let's hope it lasts a long period of time instead of just 2 years. And there are diseases like varicella (chickenpox) that are deadlier in adults and anyone with underlying health conditions and immunecompromised status, but chickenpox is ancient and often happens in young children, also there's a vaccine for it too. 

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