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Trump vs Biden


RoofGardener

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 The democrats want to increase taxes on the rich. So here we go again, the rich have to lower their workers, pay for them and their health cares .

so there goes the jobs :)

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52 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 The democrats want to increase taxes on the rich. So here we go again, the rich have to lower their workers, pay for them and their health cares .

so there goes the jobs :)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/02/15/amazon-pays-no-2018-federal-income-tax-report-says/2886639002/
 

Quote

 

Profits for online retail behemoth Amazon soared in 2018, but it paid no federal income tax for the second consecutive year, according to a report published Wednesday.

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy says the company is subject to a 21 percent tax rate on its U.S. income. However, through various tax breaks and credits, the company will receive a tax rebate of $129 million

 

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/07/13/please-tax-us-dozens-of-millionaires-urge-governments-to-tax-the-rich-to-pay-for-coronavirus-impact/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASDYAQE%3D#aoh=15951941015222&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fisabeltogoh%2F2020%2F07%2F13%2Fplease-tax-us-dozens-of-millionaires-urge-governments-to-tax-the-rich-to-pay-for-coronavirus-impact%2F

Please Tax Us’: Dozens Of Millionaires Urge Governments To Tax The Rich To Pay For Coronavirus Impact

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43 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

at least the rich are helping the poor by donations

The poor are also helping the poor. But the world economy will need tax revenue and it is the top 1% who are capable of providing that and they should. 

Amazon did not only get a multi million dollar rebate in the US last year, it has a reputation for treating its employees(the poor) very badly for profits.

Trickle down economics does not work. Even tax distribution is far more just.

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4 hours ago, Kismit said:

Please Tax Us’

They need not wait for April 15, this has always been an option for wealthy people to contribute to the greater good. Last I checked, there is $54T in owned wealth in the US. So far the wealthy have contributed a little over $1M. The key to figuring out if the wealthy want to help is whether they mention "tax" in their offer...if they do, there's an agenda. Taxation stifles the economy and rarely helps the poor. It helps all members of gov't, no one else matters. The wealthy on both sides of politics rely on lifers in Washington to keep the circle going, one of the reasons why they call Washington The Swamp.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

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8 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

They need not wait for April 15, this has always been an option for wealthy people to contribute to the greater good. Last I checked, there is $54T in owned wealth in the US. So far the wealthy have contributed a little over $1M. The key to figuring out if the wealthy want to help is whether they mention "tax" in their offer...if they do, there's an agenda. Taxation stifles the economy and rarely helps the poor. It helps all members of gov't, no one else matters. The wealthy on both sides of politics rely on lifers in Washington to keep the circle going, one of the reasons why they call Washington The Swamp.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

Great. 

So why did Amazon pay nothing in income tax and get a multimillion dollar rebate then?

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On 7/17/2020 at 8:21 PM, Autochthon1990 said:

We took a look at Russian interference, found it, found solid proof of it, made it known to the public.

Post it.  All you are doing is spreading lies.  

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4 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Great. 

So why did Amazon pay nothing in income tax and get a multimillion dollar rebate then?

Can you link this?

(I'm also assuming you mean The corporate tax rate, not income? Individuals pay income)

Edited by spartan max2
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https://www.thebalance.com/breakdown-of-who-pays-most-taxes-4178924

Even when corporations write checks to the IRS, they still aren't "paying taxes".  They never do, not anymore than they lose money over tariffs.  They just pass the cost to the consumer.  It has always been that way.

 

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20 minutes ago, and then said:

Post it.  All you are doing is spreading lies.  

https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-declassified-report-on-russian-interference-in-the-us-election/2433/

Before you dismiss this, this is a literal government document detailing Russian ****ery. Not a report, not an editorial, THE document from the Federal Government.

Edited by Autochthon1990
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8 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Great. 

So why did Amazon pay nothing in income tax and get a multimillion dollar rebate then?

Because of the shills in gov't who benefit from allowing it. If we're to ever solve the tax problem, we'll have to institute term limits to break up the loyalties, both between politicians and businesses and politicians and their voters. That we need to enact term limits should tell you how much any of those three entitites care about people in need. Taxation isn't the answer for another reason...least efficient handler of money in history is the US gov't. 

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2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Can you link this?

(I'm also assuming you mean The corporate tax rate, not income? Individuals pay income)

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-income-taxes-for-the-first-time-since-2016.html

They did pay a little this year (none previously..), but it was at an effective rate of 1.2%.....

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3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Can you link this?

(I'm also assuming you mean The corporate tax rate, not income? Individuals pay income)

Already have. It is in my post above directed at doc. The first story. From USA today. They paid no income tax and received a sizeable rebate.

Quote

Profits for online retail behemoth Amazon soared in 2018, but it paid no federal income tax for the second consecutive year, according to a report published Wednesday.

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy says the company is subject to a 21 percent tax rate on its U.S. income. However, through various tax breaks and credits, the company will receive a tax rebate of $129 million.

3 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Because of the shills in gov't who benefit from allowing it. If we're to ever solve the tax problem, we'll have to institute term limits to break up the loyalties, both between politicians and businesses and politicians and their voters. That we need to enact term limits should tell you how much any of those three entitites care about people in need. Taxation isn't the answer for another reason...least efficient handler of money in history is the US gov't. 

Yes the problem is definitely with the Government. 

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Problems with FBI surveillance extended far beyond probe of Trump campaign, Justice Dept. inspector general says

The Justice Department inspector general revealed Tuesday that his investigators found errors in every FBI application to a secret surveillance court examined as part of an ongoing review — suggesting that problems exposed in the bureau’s probe of President Trump’s 2016 campaign extend far beyond that case alone.

The memorandum issued by Inspector General Michael Horowitz stems from an audit launched last year after his office found 17 serious problems with the FBI’s surveillance applications targeting former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. These interim results seem to indicate that other sensitive counterintelligence and counterterrorism cases have been similarly plagued by mistakes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-surveillance-trump-russia-inspector-general/2020/03/31/22274dd0-735c-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html

Flynn documents are the 'smoking gun' on Comey's FBI

Had the Department of Justice (DOJ) released the newly disclosed documents related to Gen. Michael Flynn three years ago, instead of fired FBI Director James Comey improperly leaking his “memos” on President Trump, there definitely would have been a special counsel — only it would have been investigating the FBI for gross abuse of power, not the Trump administration.

The new documents are in effect the “smoking gun” proving that a cabal at the FBI acted above the law and with extreme political bias, targeting people for prosecution rather than investigating crimes.

DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz found 17 violations of policy and procedure in the initiation of the investigation of Trump’s campaign. Former special counsel Robert Mueller’s report found no evidence of any Trump-Russia collusion. And yet much of the media coverage of all this has been so riddled with bias that, in a recent poll, 53 percent still believe Trump colluded with the Russians to win the 2016 presidential election.

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/495627-flynn-documents-are-the-smoking-gun-on-comeys-fbi

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On 7/17/2020 at 6:14 PM, Autochthon1990 said:

I'm from Oregon, we have mail in voting, we have literally never had a problem with it.

Your state is solidly Democratic, yes?  I'm talking chiefly about the states that want to transition into all mail balloting who have no system established and no checks and balances.

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5 hours ago, Autochthon1990 said:

https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-declassified-report-on-russian-interference-in-the-us-election/2433/

Before you dismiss this, this is a literal government document detailing Russian ****ery. Not a report, not an editorial, THE document from the Federal Government.

Yes, Russia attempted to skew the results but only did so through social media and even there it was a perfunctory attempt.  Your insinuation was that Trump and staff were implicated to be colluding in it.  That was absolutely disproven by lack of evidence after an exhaustive investigation.

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and his supporters think he should be president. says a lot about their cognitive abilities.  

Doesn't little Donnie Dotard know these tests are for grandpa to make sure he can still live on his own not to win the Nobel Prize in Physics.  Donnie really needs to be placed in a home. Hopefully run by the Bureau of Prisons. What a stupid man.

Edited by micahc
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4 hours ago, Kismit said:

Already have. It is in my post above directed at doc. The first story. From USA today. They paid no income tax and received a sizeable rebate.

Yes the problem is definitely with the Government. 

Diving in a little deeper, Amazon seems to benefit primarily from three tax breaks...voter approved incentives to lure the company's warehouses to their towns for the jobs (hard to blame this on gov't if we, the people rubber stamped), deductions for writing off vested stock options, and R&D credits. Personally, I have no issue with voter-approved tax breaks to lure businesses as the economic impact to the community is often greater than the loss of tax revenue impact for the gov't. I also endorse the lower corporate tax rate of 21%. And I support R&D tax credits for companies who use those for purposes of disease treatment or environmental matters (for those who know my position, CC as a topic is mostly a hoax, but there is a need for more green technology). 

The problems are...

1. Companies who use R&D credits are usually big pharma, big oil and big tech whose CEO's are paid handsomely and whose profits are usually extreme.

2. Writing off vested options should be forbidden.

3. Ultimately, while folks like me support lower corporate and individual tax rates because that money saved often ends up priming our economic pumps is some way, we've also shouted from the rooftops to close the loopholes that take 35% effective rates to zero or less rather than the desired 21%. Those loopholes have never been closed because the politicians benefit from giving breaks or getting them personally. 

I'll fully acknowledge that Republicans are often the catalyst on lower taxes and not closing loopholes. But Democrats have mastered the game of rhetoric such that they can appear to oppose tax breaks and lower taxes when they are in the minority in government, knowing they with both look good and get those breaks. Even now, when they control the House, they can claim the Senate won't pass or Trump will veto, so why bother. So, go back to when the left had control of House, Senate and Presidency in 2009-2010 and wonder why the loopholes were never closed. Then contrast that to the fact that Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi all benefit from tax break loopholes, two of those have become wealthy solely off the taxpayer dime to begin with. Our left wing media is also complicit in that they use tax breaks to denigrate people like Trump and GWB when convenient, but never question when Democrats take advantage of the rules to benefit themselves. 

Hence, all gov't is dirty and the rummy media is partly to blame for always focusing on one half. A conclusion one should come to on any political topic. And the voter isn't much different, so long as their person, party or ideology is in charge, they don't care how, what or why. Taxation truly is how government controls people, which is why the question of why the poorest among us continue to vote one way is so important. It's because that's what the media and leaders tell them they should do. This goes to my main purpose here, asking why Democrats never call out their own for lack of results. I've called for draining the swamp of lifer Republicans, I supported the Tea Party who largely called for change in Republican politics precisely due to issues like this one. Trump was never a priority choice for many of us, but what he represented was - a break from the norm of lifers benefiting off the backs of the people. Folks on the left would realize that if they weren't being played like a fiddle by their media and politicians. Not saying the left should support the guy, just asking what they've done to eliminate their lifers who've done nothing to change the system either. Clinton and Biden - seems like a change from the norm to you?

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8 hours ago, Autochthon1990 said:

https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-declassified-report-on-russian-interference-in-the-us-election/2433/

Before you dismiss this, this is a literal government document detailing Russian ****ery. Not a report, not an editorial, THE document from the Federal Government.

It is a literal gov't document, but the actual evidence has been removed, we know much of that evidence was manufactured by the Federal Government, and we truly don't know how much benefit was actually enjoyed.

If you change Russia to Soros and Trump to Obama, do you honestly think you'd have heard a word about meddling in elections? Single greatest thing we can do in this country is to start scrutinizing our own as hard as we do the other side and hope doing so actually brings us closer together. Way we are doing it now isn't working. If you disagree, then you probably aren't interested in change or compromise. And frankly, I've seen no evidence the left has that interest, which is why I in turn am no longer interested in it myself. Y'all control the ability to address the issues properly, powering through the blame game ain't getting it done. 

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20 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

The other alternative is to do more tax cuts and reduce or eliminate Social Security, Medicare, and Obamacare.

Right steal from the poor to keep the rich richer.  That is just stupid, but people will let the politicians do it, like they always have.  And by the way, the government is not paying anything for "Obamacare".  That money comes from the increases in premiums for those of us who already had health insurance.

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8 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Single greatest thing we can do in this country is to start scrutinizing our own as hard as we do the other side and hope doing so actually brings us closer together. Way we are doing it now isn't working. If you disagree, then you probably aren't interested in change or compromise. And frankly, I've seen no evidence the left has that interest, which is why I in turn am no longer interested in it myself. Y'all control the ability to address the issues properly, powering through the blame game ain't getting it done. 

A noble and worthwhile goal. How do we get there?  Maybe we could start by agreeing on a source of facts that is not watered down with opinion.  Scrutiny is hard for both sides when we continue to use our own dedicated sources. How do we find a single standard of facts, like the answer to a math problem that we can all arrive at separately and agree on?

And of course, frankly from over here there is no evidence that the right has any interest.  You also control the ability to address the issues properly.  Neither of us trusts the other side, for a number of historical reasons.  So how do we turn our backs on each other and focus on our internal problems without thinking we will be stabbed or robbed when our back is turned?

It does not seem we have a common vision of what is good in America and what can make it better. 

Do we start by agreeing  on some basic principles like the Constitution and Bill of Rights and go from there?  Are we going to fight about interpretation of what equal justice for all means for example?

This is the same problem the founding fathers solved to unite 13 disparate colonies into a nation.

This is the same basic problem  those in power failed to solve in 1860.

Trust is an issue that must be dealt with first.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Y'all control the ability to address the issues properly, powering through the blame game ain't getting it done. 

Y'all? Really, who are you including in that?  All of us together control the ability to address any issue properly, why are you standing on the sidelines pointing fingers?

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13 hours ago, and then said:

Yes, Russia attempted to skew the results but only did so through social media and even there it was a perfunctory attempt.  Your insinuation was that Trump and staff were implicated to be colluding in it.  That was absolutely disproven by lack of evidence after an exhaustive investigation.

I really don't understand how you can be so dismissal on the affect that social media has on right wing voters.  We have had a thread already about Wayfair shipping children to people.  That started with 1 single Reddit post, and made it's way to national right wing media in 3 days, to be shared by millions on Facebook within 4 days.  We have had threads about Obama hanging a Muslim prayer rug in the oval office.  We have an uncountable number of threads about George Soros.  All of this madness gets started as a Facebook meme, and you have a whole mass of people that think it's true.  

And to say it was dis-proven?  Did Donald Trump Jr. agree to meet with a lawyer with ties to the Kremlin to obtain "dirt" on Hilary Clinton?  Even that much was admitted to. 

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On 7/19/2020 at 3:29 PM, Kismit said:

 

Please Tax Us’: Dozens Of Millionaires Urge Governments To Tax The Rich To Pay For Coronavirus Impact

There are over 100,000 businesses now defunct??  Where is that going to end?  If we didn't have a strong, robust, and healthy economy, we would be in a world of hurt about now.  When you narrow the revenue base, you can't begin to raise enough in taxes.

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