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RoofGardener

Trump vs Biden

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Doug1029
15 hours ago, OverSword said:

The architect of our privatized prison system and co author of three strikes laws and worse.  No controversy there.

Biden is a piece of garbage and always has been.  Corrupt Washington Bureaucrat. 

He has done some things I wish he hadn't.  But he's way better than the crime boss we have now.

Doug

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OverSword
2 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

He has done some things I wish he hadn't.  But he's way better than the crime boss we have now.

Doug

Can you give some examples of some of the great things he's done?  He's been a big piece of cheese in the government since 1973 so there should be just simply oodles.  

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
On 7/16/2020 at 12:36 AM, Gromdor said:

Based on the finances of the various Trump associates investigated, I would say Manafort and Ukraine hands down.  Seems that is where the Russians funnel money through to get to their US assets as well- so two birds with one stone so to speak.

Yeah, and they really took care of Hunter too.  Very nice guys the Ukrainians. 

Edited by OverSword
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Doug1029
54 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Can you give some examples of some of the great things he's done?  He's been a big piece of cheese in the government since 1973 so there should be just simply oodles.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Joe_Biden

See the sections on his committee assignments.

Doug

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Joe_Biden

See the sections on his committee assignments.

Doug

So none then.  Okay.  

Did find this little gem though right near the top of the page.

Quote

In the mid-1970s, Biden was one of the Senate's leading opponents of desegregation busing. 

Yeah, he's great.  Against mixing the races in the 70's, writes legislation that sends record numbers of black Americans to prison in the 90's.  He's great.  I don't see why the democrats are running him, there has got to be a better choice.

Edited by OverSword
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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So none then.  Okay.  

Did find this little gem though right near the top of the page.

Yeah, he's great.  Against mixing the races in the 70's, writes legislation that sends record numbers of black Americans to prison in the 90's.  He's great.  I don't see why the democrats are running him, there has got to be a better choice.

My theory is that they don't want to win, much like running McGovern against Nixon in the 70's. 

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OverSword
30 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

My theory is that they don't want to win, much like running McGovern against Nixon in the 70's. 

That could be true, the next four years aren't likely to make either party look good.

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The Wistman

Biden didn't even want to run.  He was crowbarred in late in the game by the Clinto-Dems, because they didn't think any of the other candidates were neo-liberal enough to assure them, like Biden did, that nothing would be changed.  Bernie's primary defeat happened because the insiders at DNC (controlled by the Clinton machine) engineered the instant circumstance that all of the other candidates bowed out and threw their supporters behind mumbling, terrible-record Biden.  Remember, Bernie had been winning primaries and was gauged to be able to handily beat Trump, which the neolib Dems absolutely opposed, just the same as happened in 2016.  IOW, as in 2016, the Clinto-Democrats prefer losing to Trump rather than winning with Bernie.

I know many here didn't like Bernie and would rather one of the other candidates would have won the primaries.  I understand that and somewhat concur.  Biden as frontrunner was engineered by the Clintons, though, so that's where the indignation should be pointed.  Biden's a terrible candidate, as Hillary was.  Even so, Trump's trenchant failure at protecting the health and security of the American citizenry will only worsen, so Biden may in fact win simply by default.

Just my outlandish opinion.   :st

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

Biden didn't even want to run.  He was crowbarred in late in the game by the Clinto-Dems, because they didn't think any of the other candidates were neo-liberal enough to assure them, like Biden did, that nothing would be changed.  Bernie's primary defeat happened because the insiders at DNC (controlled by the Clinton machine) engineered the instant circumstance that all of the other candidates bowed out and threw their supporters behind mumbling, terrible-record Biden.  Remember, Bernie had been winning primaries and was gauged to be able to handily beat Trump, which the neolib Dems absolutely opposed, just the same as happened in 2016.  IOW, as in 2016, the Clinto-Democrats prefer losing to Trump rather than winning with Bernie.

I know many here didn't like Bernie and would rather one of the other candidates would have won the primaries.  I understand that and somewhat concur.  Biden as frontrunner was engineered by the Clintons, though, so that's where the indignation should be pointed.  Biden's a terrible candidate, as Hillary was.  Even so, Trump's trenchant failure at protecting the health and security of the American citizenry will only worsen, so Biden may in fact win simply by default.

Just my outlandish opinion.   :st

It's no conspiracy, Biden won the primaries because more Democrats voted for him.

It was clear to anyone watching the primary that the reason Bernie was leading was because the moderate vote was split between too many candidates. The progressives not as much so. Bernie could never build past his 20-30 percent base.

Super Tuesday was different this year because California moved to be in it. Making people have to drop out earlier then later.

It was a logic choice for moderates who knew they wouldn't win the primary to drop out and endorse Biden. 

No conspiracy about it.

 

Edit: also Bernie did worse then in 2016. Showing that alot of votes were just anti-hillary votes the first time around.

Edited by spartan max2
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The Wistman
10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

It's no conspiracy, Biden won the primaries because more Democrats voted for him.

It was clear to anyone watching the primary that the reason Bernie was leading was because the moderate vote was split between too many candidates. The progressives not as much so. Bernie could never build past his 20-30 percent base.

Super Tuesday was different this year because California moved to be in it. Making people have to drop out earlier then later.

It was a logic choice for moderates who knew they wouldn't win the primary to drop out and endorse Biden. 

No conspiracy about it.

 

Edit: also Bernie did worse then in 2016. Showing that alot of votes were just anti-hillary votes the first time around.

Nah.  The Dems are split with Progressives making a comeback because of anger and disillusionment among the Democratic electorate.  The neolibs are fighting hard (Pelosi) to contain and castrate them.  That's what's happening inside the Dem party now.

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spartan max2
Just now, The Wistman said:

Nah.  The Dems are split with Progressives making a comeback because of anger and disillusionment among the Democratic electorate.  The neolibs are fighting hard (Pelosi) to contain and castrate them.  That's what's happening inside the Dem party now.

There is progressive wing, no debate there.

What I'm disagreeing with you is that Bernie lost because of a conspiracy. That's silly.

Bernie lost the primary because the majority of Democrats didn't vote for him. The voters did that.

 

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The Wistman
Posted (edited)

@spartan max2   It was engineered, with a major role played by neolib sellout Sen. Clyburn using his power among the black electorate in S. Carolina to endorse and actively secure the black vote there for Biden.  Which, considering Biden's actual record, is laughable.  As has been noted in this thread.  Sorry you don't see these power plays among the Democratic leadership, but they're real enough.  The neolibal, corporate friendly Dems entirely control the DNC and primary process.  Remember in 2016 watching Hillary supporters flipping a coin and reading it themselves to see who won their district?  The shenanigans of the DNC were exposed in the Podesta emails, though the content of those emails seems to be forgotten these days.  It's all extremely stinky. 

Edited by The Wistman

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spartan max2
9 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

@spartan max2   It was engineered, with a major role played by neolib sellout Sen. Clyburn using his power among the black electorate in S. Carolina to endorse and actively secure the black vote there for Biden.  Which, considering Biden's actual record, is laughable.  As has been noted in this thread.  Sorry you don't see these power plays among the Democratic leadership, but they're real enough.  The neolibal, corporate friendly Dems entirely control the DNC and primary process.  Remember in 2016 watching Hillary supporters flipping a coin and reading it themselves to see who won their district?  The shenanigans of the DNC were exposed in the Podesta emails, though the content of those emails seems to be forgotten these days.  It's all extremely stinky. 

Lol, so when Bernie and AOC endorse candidates to influence their supporters is that an evil corporate conspiracy?

Or only when people endorse people you don't like?

Black people overwhemly voted Biden in all states.  

I saw some pretty vile comments about black people from Bernie supporters online because they dared to not vote for Bernie ( can't imagine what people who say if black people ever voted majority Republican) 

 

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and then
On 7/15/2020 at 9:36 PM, Autochthon1990 said:

Where is Biden? 

Not holding rallies and social distancing insead of fellating his own ego in Tulsa because he cares more about other people then the sociopath in office. 

Is the virus transmissible through audio and video?  That senile old codger can't string 10 minutes of dialogue together without making statements that are incomprehensible or at a minimum, disjointed.  His campaign is hiding him and unfortunately for him, Americans enjoy debates.  He won't be able to skip them without consequences. :) 

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The Wistman

@spartan max2  okay you don't see Clyburn as I do.  No problemo.

Endorsements are of course important and, happily, all sides do it.  In this case, I was making a point about one faction of the Democratic party using its entrenched power to suppress any threats to their dominance. Clyburn being one of that faction.  

Bernie was doing quite well up until Super Tuesday; Chris Matthews actually lost his career for going coocoo on live TV because of Bernie's several big wins just prior to that.  The Dems were worried, but then fixed it....at least that's how it looked to me.  And I simply don't think the ambitious politicians running in the primary would throw in the towel easily for Biden to win.  Not with their egos and pride.  They had to be forced to all do it at once, I think.

And you're right, people online say the vilest things.  Are you sure those were in fact Bernie supporters?  Lots of trolls make it difficult to tell who's shooting straight.  People identifying themselves as Hillary supporters were intensely vile to Bernie supporters as I remember it.  Still are.

Doesn't matter much now though.  The cards have been played and Biden's the nominee.

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and then
On 7/15/2020 at 2:06 AM, Cookie Monster said:

The worst being the `Trump lies so much` and `everything Trump has done is bad` narratives. Its peculiar, its odd, its like some form of mental instability. Like Trump hits on some deep underlying neurosis provoking crazy responses. Ones based not on facts or evidence, but pure hysteria.

Few can even articulate why they think he's a racist or a bigot, white supremacist because he said "there are good people on both sides".  Both were based on the media's spin on things he said.  You can't get them to even read a transcript of his ACTUAL WORDS.  They "know" they're correct and you are a supporter of a Nazi.  It's pathetic and it's becoming dangerous for all Americans.

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and then
On 7/16/2020 at 11:32 AM, Hammerclaw said:

Democrat diversity is a myth, apparently. I'll wake up after the election completely assured that a stinkin' rich old white guy will still be President.

I begin to believe that it will be days or weeks after the election before we are told - by the Supreme Court - who the winner is.  The mail-in balloting scam is going to WRECK the trust in this election.

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spartan max2
4 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

Bernie was doing quite well up until Super Tuesday

Thats because the moderate vote was split between 5-6 can candidates while the progressive vote was only split between Sanders and Warren. 

Once it became a head to head race the actual numbers became more clear.

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Cookie Monster
6 minutes ago, and then said:

Few can even articulate why they think he's a racist or a bigot, white supremacist because he said "there are good people on both sides".  Both were based on the media's spin on things he said.  You can't get them to even read a transcript of his ACTUAL WORDS.  They "know" they're correct and you are a supporter of a Nazi.  It's pathetic and it's becoming dangerous for all Americans.

Their whole view of Trump isn`t factual, its a regurgitation of what the media told them.

Talking to them it seems they totally believe it, or are paid Russian posters.

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Doug1029
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

So none then.  Okay.  

Did find this little gem though right near the top of the page.

Yeah, he's great.  Against mixing the races in the 70's, writes legislation that sends record numbers of black Americans to prison in the 90's.  He's great.  I don't see why the democrats are running him, there has got to be a better choice.

I see you didn't bother reading the article.

 

When I was a kid I road the school bus every day.  Generally took about an hour to get home.  Kids who lived closer than a mile had to walk.  I never could see why bussing was such a big issue.

Doug

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Yeah, he's great.  Against mixing the races in the 70's, writes legislation that sends record numbers of black Americans to prison in the 90's.  He's great.  I don't see why the democrats are running him, there has got to be a better choice.

Because he can appeal to middle of the road don't-rock-the boat people.  As an added bonus he holds some views that Trump voters like without being totally crazy.  He is rooted in that era that era that  Trump tries to evoke with MAGA, the good ole days.

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OverSword
48 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

@spartan max2   It was engineered, with a major role played by neolib sellout Sen. Clyburn using his power among the black electorate in S. Carolina to endorse and actively secure the black vote there for Biden.  Which, considering Biden's actual record, is laughable.  As has been noted in this thread.  Sorry you don't see these power plays among the Democratic leadership, but they're real enough.  The neolibal, corporate friendly Dems entirely control the DNC and primary process.  Remember in 2016 watching Hillary supporters flipping a coin and reading it themselves to see who won their district?  The shenanigans of the DNC were exposed in the Podesta emails, though the content of those emails seems to be forgotten these days.  It's all extremely stinky. 

Because black people don't think for themselves and vote how they're told. 

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Because black people don't think for themselves and vote how they're told. 

Black people?  What about rednecks and straight ticket intellectuals.  Are you singling out one group and stigmatizing them?  Lots of people vote how they are told, and there are a plethora of ways people are told how to vote.

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OverSword
5 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

I see you didn't bother reading the article.

 

When I was a kid I road the school bus every day.  Generally took about an hour to get home.  Kids who lived closer than a mile had to walk.  I never could see why bussing was such a big issue.

Doug

Because you weren't being bused into a black school in Delaware and Biden wasn't your senator.

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OverSword
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Black people?  What about rednecks and straight ticket intellectuals.  Are you singling out one group and stigmatizing them?  Lots of people vote how they are told, and there are a plethora of ways people are told how to vote.

I was being facetious, read what I was replying to. 

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