Cryptozoologicon - cryptids as real animals

[onlookerofmayhem]

16 minutes ago, Resume said:

tell me a story and I file it along with all the other stories people tell me. 

No. No. No.

After you read "millions" of stories, no matter how far fetched, you come to the conclusion that they all coalesce into the inescapable, logical truth.

The quality, quantity and consistency of the stories is what makes them true.

Who needs evidence? 

Idiotic psuedo-skeptics who don't understand that all you have to do is already believe in fairy tales and that makes them true!

Welcome to ass backwards Georgeland.

Edited July 20, 2020 by onlookerofmayhem
Words

[papageorge1]

12 minutes ago, Resume said:

Not interested in a mundane definition of the word; I'm interested in how it is being used in this context, which you are claiming is some sort of evidence. Anecdotes are p*** poor evidence as they can neither be verified nor falsfied.  Before you start going on about proof versus evidence, you should first understand that "proofs" are the language of math, not science.  Science examines hypotheses; they may be shown to be sound, or falsified (disproved) but all conclusions are provisional and subject to re-examination and revision.  Stories in this context are anecdotes and untestable.  Given the shady nature of most bigfoot "research," quality evidence for bigfoot would be a bigfoot, or a piece of one.

Show me a bigfoot, and I am helpless but to admit that there is a bigfoot; tell me a story and I file it along with all the other stories people tell me.  The time to believe that story is when is is robustly evidenced, and not a minute before.

Well if you require a specimen then you’ll have to wait. And if they can disappear that may never happen.

As for me I think the cumulative evidence Including anecdotes and stories is rather strong that Bigfoot exists.

And there we sit.

[Resume]

5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Well if you require a specimen then you’ll have to wait. And if they can disappear that may never happen.

As for me I think the cumulative evidence Including anecdotes and stories is rather strong that Bigfoot exists.

And there we sit.

II am quite confident that even if I wait forever, I'll still be waiting; there is no cumulative evidence, just cumulative stories, which are worthless.  And please, pleading a supernatural excuse for lack of bigfoot is just using one unevidenced assertion to explain another unevidenced assertion.

We definitely do not sit in the same place.

[papageorge1]

12 hours ago, Resume said:

II am quite confident that even if I wait forever, I'll still be waiting; there is no cumulative evidence, just cumulative stories, which are worthless.  And please, pleading a supernatural excuse for lack of bigfoot is just using one unevidenced assertion to explain another unevidenced assertion.

We definitely do not sit in the same place.

That's fine. I give all claims their fair consideration and judge overall on the body of data.

[Resume]

As long as GIGO is applied to the data: Garbage in, garbage out.

[stereologist]

On 7/19/2020 at 10:58 PM, papageorge1 said:

Well if you require a specimen then you’ll have to wait. And if they can disappear that may never happen.

As for me I think the cumulative evidence Including anecdotes and stories is rather strong that Bigfoot exists.

And there we sit.

There is no evidence. How can there be cumulative evidence? That's right you like to promote lies.

All we have here are excuses. That is all you ever provide. You give poor excuses as to why what you believe in can never be found.

[stereologist]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:32 AM, papageorge1 said:

That's fine. I give all claims their fair consideration and judge overall on the body of data.

And you always choose to go down the most ridiculous path possible and often when it is decidedly wrong.

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

And you always choose to go down the most ridiculous path possible and often when it is decidedly wrong.

Face it man. He's a troll and knows exactly how to bait people into arguments. Every noticed how messed up a thread gets when anyone engages him. By now you should know how his song and dance will go. 

[MysteryMike]

Came up with some cool other cryptozoologicon ideas.

Altamaha-ha: A species of long-neck freshwater seal.

Mahama: A species of crocodile, possibility descended from crocodylus thorbjarnarsoni.

Tatzelwurm: A species of large lizard/salamander with only two front legs. It has a facial structure that would resemble the ears of a cat.

Trunko: A larger species of elephant seal.

Yowie: A species of marsupial that has hominid/primate traits through convergent evolution.

Edited July 26, 2020 by MysteryMike

[MysteryMike]

Some more I came up with.

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Beast of Bray Road, Michigan Dogman, and other bipedal wolf-like cryptids: Large, carnivorous marsupials whose ancestors, like the distantly related opossum, crossed into North America from South America. In a case of parallel evolution with Australia's meat-eating kangaroos, it evolved bipedalism, developing an extremely fast gallop so as to better compete with its placental rivals.

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Burrunjor: A surviving member of the meat-eating kangaroos that once lived in Australia, either that or a carnivorous marsupial that evolved a body structure similar to that of theropods. For example: https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Burrunjor?file=Burrunjor_as_a_carnivorous_marsupial.png

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Devil Monkey: A species of new world monkey from Latin America that found its way into North America. Due to convergent evolution, it evolved to resemble that of baboons notably a dog-like snout.

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Ennedi Tiger: A surviving member of the machairodontinae family aka saber-toothed cats.The Ennedi Tiger evolved from one of the species that eventually moved up into the mountainous ranges and areas to avoid competition with lions, leopards, and scavengers given its fangs likely would have made it a slow eater.

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Flatwoods Monster: A member of the giant salamander species alongside hellbenders, Chinese, and Japanese giant salamanders. On that night the proposed Flatwoods Monster was sighted, what those people saw was one of those salamanders which was leaning against a tree, and given how dark it was made it seem much bigger hence its eyes looking like they were at in front along with its arms. It takes up the niche of crocodilians in its range given the colder environment that would be unsuitable for them. Based off this: 

 

 

Starts at 30:00

-

Loch Ness Monster: A gargantuan species of newt that evolved a body structure similar to that of a plesiosaur and probably the largest amphibian alive reaching a length of 20-25 feet on average. Because of being an amphibian, it doesn't have to surface very often and like giant salamanders and hellbenders can stay hidden at the bottom of Loch Ness for long periods of time. Based off this: https://twitter.com/TetZoo/status/1295841205901721600/photo/1

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Nandi Bear: A gorilla-sized baboon in, which evolved to take over the niches left by the great apes when they became extinct in much of East Africa. Unlike their relatives, they live in small family groups instead of large troops, their size and food requirements keeping them from joining up in large bands. They are mostly vegetarian but will eat meat on a semi-regular basis.

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Qilin: A even-toed ungulate that shares a common ancestor with cervids (Deer). Like chevrotains, it's mainly herbivorous but will occasionally supplement its diet on meat notably small animals like rodents, birds, small reptiles as well as carrion. Compared to its closest relatives, it is more carnivorous in comparison, I based this idea off on the qilin's/kirin's dragon-like face and features notably teeth, and relating to the myths of them being benevolent protectors, they pose no threat to people, only attacking if provoked.

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Underwater Panther: On the ocean-like expanse of the Great Lakes of North America, a species of lynx has evolved a semi-aquatic lifestyle similar to the fishing cat of Asia. Chasing down fish, muskrat, beavers, and frogs, the underwater panther also became adept at snagging fish right off the line or from the net as humans began to fish in the area. This mischievous habit combined with their haunting, eerie vocalizations has contributed to many Algonquian peoples such as the Ojibwe giving this animal a legendary status.

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Water Lion: Another surviving member of the machairodontinae family. This saber-toothed cat eventually evolved an aquatic lifestyle in order to avoid competition with other big cats like lions and leopards, and to allow them to eat meat which has been putrefied in water. Their fangs being used to dig up shellfish and turtles from riverbeds, or even to gain a purchase on slippery riverbanks.

Edited October 21, 2020 by MysteryMike

[rashore]

So you are making up fake animals to try to explain what might  be cryptids?

The explanation for Bray Road Beast and other wolf lore is extra amusing- regular wolves, mangy bears, and humans wearing skins aren't good enough.... you had to make up a giant carnivorous marsupial cousin to opossums and kangaroos? And why galloping? Bipedial galloping is an unusual trait to choose over running. And also bipedal galloping isn't noted in the lore as something- running is. Though bipedal galloping would make any cryptid much more amusing. 

The hyrax in this thread is indeed very hyrax-ish.

[MysteryMike]

13 minutes ago, rashore said:

So you are making up fake animals to try to explain what might  be cryptids?

The explanation for Bray Road Beast and other wolf lore is extra amusing- regular wolves, mangy bears, and humans wearing skins aren't good enough.... you had to make up a giant carnivorous marsupial cousin to opossums and kangaroos? And why galloping? Bipedial galloping is an unusual trait to choose over running. And also bipedal galloping isn't noted in the lore as something- running is. Though bipedal galloping would make any cryptid much more amusing. 

The hyrax in this thread is indeed very hyrax-ish.

I'm not, this is all just for the fun and creativity with speculative evolution, envisioning and worldbuilding the hypothetical world of Cryptozoologicon where cryptids and mythical creatures exist as real animals. You should definitely check out the book if you're interested.

I've also pretty much came to accept the fact most cryptids are likely not real but they'll always exist in our imaginations, not to mention pretty much see them in the same vain as fiction or mythical creatures.

Edited October 21, 2020 by MysteryMike

[rashore]

5 minutes ago, MysteryMike said:

Its all for the fun and creativity with speculative evolution, so I' simply envisioning the hypothetical world of Cryptozoologicon where cryptids and mythical creatures exist. You should definitely check out the book if you're interested.

I'm not paying to check out a book to discuss here. But from the preface available it looks like the book is trying to explain cryptids with actual animals and other more logical lore explanations, along with a bit of amusement. You made up a large carnivorous marsupial that gallops to explain lore that already has more natural and logical explanations. Considering your hyraxing of the lore of this and other cryptids, I'm guessing you are going for all amusement and just making up new fables- are you using UM to test out your notions?

[MysteryMike]

More expansion of my ideal take on the akhlut.

-It ranges across the arctic, Northern Canada, Alaska, Greenland, and Eurasia.

-Diet consists mostly of fish and pinnipeds, but when the opportunity arises will also take terrestrial animals like caribou ambushing them like how a crocodile would.

-On average reaches a length of 12-15 feet and weighs around 700-900 lbs. Max length being 20+ feet and the biggest recorded being close to 2000 lbs.

-Lifespan on average is 50 years, in captivity though it can live up to 80 years.

-The only other apex predator in the arctic alongside the orca, and polar bear, the latter which it competes with for food, dominance, and territory.

-It has evolved very strong claws allowing it to easily dig through the ice, such so it's capable of creating ice caves as a result within icebergs which it could settle in.

-Conversation Status: Vulnerable, same reason as the polar bear, due to climate change melting the ice caps.

[MysteryMike]

To try and get this thread back on track. Here's some more real-life cryptids.

Cactus Cat:

A large green horned toad. In order to avoid being eaten, the cactus cat has evolved to appear like that of a bobcat, having larger head spikes to appear like ears, and darker colored spines dotted around its body to mimic the pattern of a bobcat. In result of its green colorization and spines, some animals might mistake it for a cactus. Like their reptilian cousins, cactus cats can shoot blood from their eyes. Cactus cats prey on small desert animals such as rodents, hares, birds, small reptiles, and of course, cacti and when water is scarce, some may drink the cactus juice.

Dobhar-chu: Among the largest species of otters alongside the giant otter and sea otter. This Irish species of otter is a descendant of a North American species, which crossed the Bering Strait Land Bridge prior to the end of the Last Ice Age. Once common throughout Eurasia, they have since seen a rapid population decline due in no small part to the shifting climate, as well as human hunters who came to prize the poor creatures pelts. The only species that survived were those that somehow managed to arrive upon the Irish Isle (it is theorized to have been, ironically, through human introduction, perhaps with groups of breeding pairs serving as a Celtic chief's prized pets).

Gator Man: In a case of evolutionary repetition, a splinter species of American Alligators (or even a terrestrial Crocodilian Species) convergently evolved the traits of their long-extinct Dinosaurian Relatives. They began to transition into an endothermic internal system, which would not only enable a more active lifestyle (as well as let them stand on their hind limbs for even greater periods of time), but even allow them to survive in much colder environments than their exothermic relatives (explaining sightings within both New York and New Jersey).

Goblins and Gremlins: Troglydont bat-like primates with pale luminescent skin and live usually in caves. They are eusocial beings and dwell on the surface at night. In the early days, certain evolutionary offshoots of hominids dwelled deeper into caves and adapted to the surroundings due to high evolutionary pressure. They adapted sonar, climbing extremities, pointed ears, and pale slime bodies. Eventually, they even formed a symbiosis with their luminescent bacteria. Goblins and gremlins feed on fish, small animals, and prey that falls into caves by accident. At night Goblins sneak out and stalk the woods sometimes breaking into human households to steal goods.

Grootslang: Given the Grootslang and its elephantine appearance, the ears are quite easy to explain as actually being a hood, similar to the kind seen within Cobras. Similarly, the tusk can be explained as being the creature's fangs, which do not fold back into the mouth like most venomous species'In a unique twist of evolution, the Grootslang had developed an extendable upper 'lip' which bears remarkable similarities to the trunks seen within Elephants (albeit, nowhere near as flexible). The Grootslang utilizes this lip to grab and hold onto far larger prey items than most snakes, and even provide a slightly greater reach to most of its strikes.

[Imagine, if you will, a mashup of the two following images]

https://www.enworld.org/attachments/grootslang-guilherme-sommermeyer-reduced-jpg.124002/

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0109/0362/products/cobra_automotive_decal_2000x.jpg?v=1610881610

In the hypothetical world of Cryptozoologicon. The Grootslang is the world's largest, and most unique, member of the Cobra family. Growing between 10 and 20 feet in length, the Grootslang dwarfs its 2nd largest relative, the King Cobra. Like the other members of the Cobra family, the Grootslang is equipped with a pair of fangs. Unlike them, however, they lack venom and are incapable of being retracted. This has left some scientists to theorize they are utilized primarily for display when attracting potential mates, or to ward off those who would approach their lair. Yet the most distinguishing feature of the Grootslang lies within its elongated upper lip, which is believed to have developed in order to provide the large, and consequently slow, animal with greater reach during its strikes. Such an adaptation allows the animal an even greater margin of error when it comes to ambushing any potential meals.

Kushtaka: Another surviving member of the sasquatch family as shown here https://www.deviantart.com/dragonthunders/art/Sasquatch-ursus-803742013. As such, the Kushtaka would carry the same traits, such as the elongated snout and more pronounced claws of bears, while having the (mostly) bipedal lifestyle of sasquatch. The reason why this species did not transition fully into its terrestrial relative lies within their lifestyle, as unlike sasquatch they are semi-aquatic in nature. Utilizing their Bipedal stance, the Kushtaka is able to wade into deeper water than most bears in their search for shellfish and other potential food sources.

Muhuru: 

In the hypothetical world of Cryptozoologicon. The Muhuru in reality is a large semi-aquatic species of tortoise with krige pyramid osteoderms on the top of its shell along with longer developed legs and a longer tail, unlike most tortoises both used to help it swim. Like all tortoises. The Muhuru is a herbivore feeding on both plants on land and in water living in the jungles of Kenya. Unfortunately endangered due to poaching for their shells, hunting for bushmeat, and deforestation of its habitat.

Qallupilluit: A species of large arctic cuttlefish (Though it does rely on the idea that no one has actually seen the whole creature or at least, never lived to tell about it). Similar to its smaller relatives, the Giant Arctic Cuttlefish utilizes its color-changing capabilities to hypnotize, or even attract, potential prey. Specialized in attracting Arctic Seals, or even young Polar Bears, the Arctic Cuttlefish Floats near the edge of the shore or an ice-sheet, displaying a hypnotic display of colors that attract animals, and small children, to the water's edge. Those that hear the cries of their children see only the creatures flailing tentacles, as it and their child descend into the deep.

Edited January 27, 2021 by MysteryMike

[Trelane]

This thread needs to die, not get back on track.

[Carnoferox]

Yeah this kind of writing belongs in a different section.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/forum/68-writers-and-artists-hangout/

[MysteryMike]

7 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

Yeah this kind of writing belongs in a different section.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/forum/68-writers-and-artists-hangout/

Any chance a mod can move this thread there then?

[rashore]

Well MysteryMike, you started this topic about an actual book by a person not yourself. The writers hangout is for material written by members, so to move the thread there would make it appear that you might be the author of the book, or perhaps you are plagiarizing. 

However, I will close this particular thread since it has strayed into personal writings and not much conversation, and you can create a new thread in the writers hangout for your creations if you like 

As such, thread closed.