I Want To Believe

[SeekTruth]

I'm an open-minded fella, and I would love to believe in ghosts, since that would suggest that human consciousness doesn't end at death. But I must put logic and evidence before my desires, lest I succumb to wishful thinking.  Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me? 

[acute]

18 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me? 

Some people, and especially children, are more sensitive to the presence of ghosts.

Unless you have a poltergeist who is  angry or noisy, trying to attract attention, you probably won't know there's one there.

[XenoFish]

26 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

I'm an open-minded fella, and I would love to believe in ghosts, since that would suggest that human consciousness doesn't end at death. But I must put logic and evidence before my desires, lest I succumb to wishful thinking.  Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me? 

Ghost are a figment of the human imagination. You don't see them because you don't believe in them. Which means your mind doesn't fabricate a phantasm. 

[onlookerofmayhem]

26 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me? 

Join the club. They don't like me either. I've never experienced anything remotely paranormal. 

I've been in dozens of "haunted" places, slept in cemeteries and never experienced so much as a glimpse of anything. Not a chill, a shadow, a whisper or an uneasy feeling.

 

[zep73]

28 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me?

Have you tried standing on your head, drinking a glass of water?

[XenoFish]

Just now, onlookerofmayhem said:

Join the club. They don't like me either. I've never experienced anything remotely paranormal. 

I've been in dozens of "haunted" places, slept in cemeteries and never experienced so much as a glimpse of anything. Not a chill, a shadow, a whisper or an uneasy feeling.

 

Didn't fire that sigil did you? 

[onlookerofmayhem]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Didn't fire that sigil did you? 

I tried it. Nothing happened.

[papageorge1]

16 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

 But I must put logic and evidence before my desires, lest I succumb to wishful thinking. 

I agree with and follow that statement myself.

I have never directly seen a ghost in my life with my own two eyes. I believe in the existence of ghosts beyond reasonable doubt though from the quantity, quality and consistency of the logic and evidence. 

I believe most other people are about as equally competent as I with their testimony. And if I did see a ghost I would question my own claims just like I question the claims of others.

Also I have seen a quantity of photos/videos I believe to be likely ghostly phenomena.

The turning point question for me is if I believe all of this quantity of claims and evidence are all hoaxes or misinterpretations. At some point belief in the ghosts just becomes the more reasonable and logical position. Now that doesn't say we understand what is going on but it does say something we don't understand in our normal reality is going on.

 

 

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I tried it. Nothing happened.

That's cool. Some times it work, some times it don't.

[onlookerofmayhem]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

That's cool. Some times it work, some times it don't.

I understand. I believe people haunt themselves. No such thing as actual ghosts. I may not be too conducive to creating one.

And I surely don't just blindly believe every story I come across.

There may be quantity, but there sure as hell is no consistency or quality in them.

[XenoFish]

25 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I understand. I believe people haunt themselves. No such thing as actual ghosts. I may not be too conducive to creating one.

And I surely don't just blindly believe every story I come across.

There may be quantity, but there sure as hell is no consistency or quality in them.

You're right on the bold. People do haunt themselves. There typically has to be a set up for a haunting, a mood of sorts. Late at night, half asleep, a bit of fear maybe paranoia. Then you have to heavily exaggerated tales. 

[XenoFish]

41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I have never directly seen a ghost in my life with my own two eyes. I believe in the existence of ghosts beyond reasonable doubt though from the quantity, quality and consistency of the logic and evidence. 

I just really want to bring attention to the bold and how the next sentience follows it. It's funny. You dismiss my comments on ghost and I've seen tons of them over the years. Almost poetic in a way. 

Quote

I believe most other people are about as equally competent as I with their testimony. And if I did see a ghost I would question my own claims just like I question the claims of others.

In regards to the bold, I suppose you never heard a fish tale have you. Because no matter what they caught it will always be a monster.

Quote

The turning point question for me is if I believe all of this quantity of claims and evidence are all hoaxes or misinterpretations. At some point belief in the ghosts just becomes the more reasonable and logical position. Now that doesn't say we understand what is going on but it does say something we don't understand in our normal reality is going on.

Actually the most reasonable position is doubt. Because for one you have zero personal experience, secondly you can not take any claim beyond face value. Just because there are a lot of big fish stories doesn't mean the lake is filled with baby megalodons. 

[Kaikou]

13 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

I'm an open-minded fella, and I would love to believe in ghosts, since that would suggest that human consciousness doesn't end at death. But I must put logic and evidence before my desires, lest I succumb to wishful thinking.  Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me? 

Well... there are many issues with that. Things that currently nobody can really answer. Personally I grew up in a house where unusual phenomemna took place.
One thing I learned as I grew up is that it's not like you can say "okay, strange phenomena, show yourself". It happens when it happens, it does what it wants to do, when it wants to do it.
In that very rare occasion where something does happen, it's often at the last minute where you weren't expecting it.
As a result it makes you sound like a fool. You have nothing and even if you DID catch something,In todays day and age, what even counts as "evidence"?
We all have access to free Sound manipulating software, Photo editing, even Video editors and Compositors.

I remember back in January of 2014 an unusual phenomena started to happen in my house (Lasted until about July 2015). What was I doing at the time? In all honesty I stood at the toilet, doing my business with the bathroom door open just prior to leaving the house to get shopping.
Was I operating a camera or using a microphone? No... I was urinating prior to leaving the house.
I was alone in the upstairs of that house when suddenly, a slightly off sounding voice from behind me shouted out the word "b******". It was extremely loud and I didn't know what to make of it.
Stuff carried on month after month, after month. Eventually I was able to accidentally capture a little over a second of this happening. 99% percent of the time it would make a groan sound and disappear. That's ONE second over a YEAR AND A HALF. The fact that I caught and lived through this is enough proof for me to say it wasn't all mental. However what about everyone else? I know my living situation, placement of electronics and the fact that no pranks could take place, I'm aware of my mental state.

On the other hand though, OF COURSE people can say they don't believe. As much as I don't like it, I absolutely get it. How are you to know and how are you to trust?


I also find a HUGE problem with all of this idea of "ghosts" or of "hauntings" or of religion.
Personally I find they contain a certain level of "human" arrogance. "Well, it must be my grandfather, he used to live here", Yeah, but why? We live in a world filled with chaos, countless species, anything can potentially be the cause.)
"Ah, the house itself is haunted. So many terrible things have taken place here". Sure, but to who do those things really matter to (outside of human beings I mean, we seem to think we're the absolute TOP of everything).
To everything ouside of human beings, what do four walls and a roof mean?


As humans we tend to look at life through the lense of belief or of knowledge. Yes we have science (which is extremely important), yet we still have to revise things occasionally.

I know this post is long, for that I'm sorry.
I guess to sum up, I would ask, if you were to experience something what would you expect to see?
I just ask because most people have a concept based around TV shows, Movies and Books.

The problem with all of them is that they're all products in some way shape or form.
Movies and books often use the tagline "based on a true story". Sure, but how much is based on a true story? 5%? 10%?
Tv shows of course are based around ratings and the ability to put butts into seats. (Which usually means they cannot be trusted.

If you're really interested in experiencing something I'd adise sitting and talking about the subject constantly and making peace with the fact that whatever happens it's down to you in how you deal with it.
Best of luck to you.
 

[XenoFish]

EVP 16 03 sounded like a frog croaking. 

[papageorge1]

30 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I just really want to bring attention to the bold and how the next sentience follows it. It's funny. You dismiss my comments on ghost and I've seen tons of them over the years. Almost poetic in a way. 

I was trying to connect with the OP who was a non-seer being one that stays on topic.

33 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

 

In regards to the bold, I suppose you never heard a fish tale have you. Because no matter what they caught it will always be a monster.

Actually the most reasonable position is doubt. Because for one you have zero personal experience, secondly you can not take any claim beyond face value. Just because there are a lot of big fish stories doesn't mean the lake is filled with baby megalodons. 

Fish stories? If that happens occasionally, I'd still want to know if there's at least a fish involved.

[SeekTruth]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I agree with and follow that statement myself.

I have never directly seen a ghost in my life with my own two eyes. I believe in the existence of ghosts beyond reasonable doubt though from the quantity, quality and consistency of the logic and evidence. 

I believe most other people are about as equally competent as I with their testimony. And if I did see a ghost I would question my own claims just like I question the claims of others.

Also I have seen a quantity of photos/videos I believe to be likely ghostly phenomena.

The turning point question for me is if I believe all of this quantity of claims and evidence are all hoaxes or misinterpretations. At some point belief in the ghosts just becomes the more reasonable and logical position. Now that doesn't say we understand what is going on but it does say something we don't understand in our normal reality is going on.

 

 

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  Can you give an example of a photo or video that you are convinced likely depicts ghostly phenomenon. While you're at it, can you provide a working definition of "ghostly phenomenon" that you adhere to? Thanks again.

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, SeekTruth said:

I'm an open-minded fella, and I would love to believe in ghosts, since that would suggest that human consciousness doesn't end at death. But I must put logic and evidence before my desires, lest I succumb to wishful thinking.  Why is it that I haven't seen or experienced a ghost? Do they not like me? 

You have not seen one because they don't exist. Basic physics illustrates this. 

[SeekTruth]

Just now, psyche101 said:

You have not seen one because they don't exist. Basic physics illustrates this. 

Can you expound? Thanks.

[SeekTruth]

43 minutes ago, Kaikou said:

Well... there are many issues with that. Things that currently nobody can really answer. Personally I grew up in a house where unusual phenomemna took place.
One thing I learned as I grew up is that it's not like you can say "okay, strange phenomena, show yourself". It happens when it happens, it does what it wants to do, when it wants to do it.
In that very rare occasion where something does happen, it's often at the last minute where you weren't expecting it.
As a result it makes you sound like a fool. You have nothing and even if you DID catch something,In todays day and age, what even counts as "evidence"?
We all have access to free Sound manipulating software, Photo editing, even Video editors and Compositors.

I remember back in January of 2014 an unusual phenomena started to happen in my house (Lasted until about July 2015). What was I doing at the time? In all honesty I stood at the toilet, doing my business with the bathroom door open just prior to leaving the house to get shopping.
Was I operating a camera or using a microphone? No... I was urinating prior to leaving the house.
I was alone in the upstairs of that house when suddenly, a slightly off sounding voice from behind me shouted out the word "b******". It was extremely loud and I didn't know what to make of it.
Stuff carried on month after month, after month. Eventually I was able to accidentally capture a little over a second of this happening. 99% percent of the time it would make a groan sound and disappear. That's ONE second over a YEAR AND A HALF. The fact that I caught and lived through this is enough proof for me to say it wasn't all mental. However what about everyone else? I know my living situation, placement of electronics and the fact that no pranks could take place, I'm aware of my mental state.

On the other hand though, OF COURSE people can say they don't believe. As much as I don't like it, I absolutely get it. How are you to know and how are you to trust?


I also find a HUGE problem with all of this idea of "ghosts" or of "hauntings" or of religion.
Personally I find they contain a certain level of "human" arrogance. "Well, it must be my grandfather, he used to live here", Yeah, but why? We live in a world filled with chaos, countless species, anything can potentially be the cause.)
"Ah, the house itself is haunted. So many terrible things have taken place here". Sure, but to who do those things really matter to (outside of human beings I mean, we seem to think we're the absolute TOP of everything).
To everything ouside of human beings, what do four walls and a roof mean?


As humans we tend to look at life through the lense of belief or of knowledge. Yes we have science (which is extremely important), yet we still have to revise things occasionally.

I know this post is long, for that I'm sorry.
I guess to sum up, I would ask, if you were to experience something what would you expect to see?
I just ask because most people have a concept based around TV shows, Movies and Books.

The problem with all of them is that they're all products in some way shape or form.
Movies and books often use the tagline "based on a true story". Sure, but how much is based on a true story? 5%? 10%?
Tv shows of course are based around ratings and the ability to put butts into seats. (Which usually means they cannot be trusted.

If you're really interested in experiencing something I'd adise sitting and talking about the subject constantly and making peace with the fact that whatever happens it's down to you in how you deal with it.
Best of luck to you.
 

Thanks for responding. Is there a reason I or anyone for that matter should believe that your recordings depict a ghost and not a living human being?

[psyche101]

4 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Can you expound? Thanks.

https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/the-lhc-proves-ghosts-do-not-exist

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, SeekTruth said:

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  Can you give an example of a photo or video that you are convinced likely depicts ghostly phenomenon. 

I've seen dozens as I go on other forums too. If I put out one in particular the thread will turn into an attack on that photo in no time. I fairly recently saw one on reddit of a clearly recognizable person who multiple people recognized as the previous owner of that house. And again and again.

4 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

While you're at it, can you provide a working definition of "ghostly phenomenon" that you adhere to? Thanks again.

The words 'ghost' and 'ghostly phenomena' generally refers to non-physical entities and their activity on the physical plane.

[SeekTruth]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/the-lhc-proves-ghosts-do-not-exist

Can you put your thoughts into your own words? I'm here for a discussion.

[SeekTruth]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I've seen dozens as I go on other forums too. If I put out one in particular the thread will turn into an attack on that photo in no time. I fairly recently saw one on reddit of a clearly recognizable person who multiple people recognized as the previous owner of that house. And again and again.

The words 'ghost' and 'ghostly phenomena' generally refers to non-physical entities and their activity on the physical plane.

Feel free to send me a convincing photo or video in private, if you are unwilling to do so here.

How can non-physical entities be active on the physical plane? Not sure how that makes sense.

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, SeekTruth said:

How can non-physical entities be active on the physical plane? Not sure how that makes sense.

Generally the most popular theory is that entities can draw energy from the physical plane (leave cold spots, drain batteries, etcetera) and produce short burst activity. I can not tell you the details of how this is done but the key point is that observation can precede full understanding in science.

The belief in ghosts is often associated with higher planes of nature (etheric, astral) that are in dimensions beyond the reach of our physical senses. We also have psychic senses that may detect some of these things directly.

[Kaikou]

5 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Thanks for responding. Is there a reason I or anyone for that matter should believe that your recordings depict a ghost and not a living human being?

You've very welcome.
That's kind of what I was trying to say. ;D
Personally I don't have any real explaination for them.
All of these recordings took place in locations where I was the only one preset over several different devices.
The top one was not just recorded on a device, but heard in realtime from behind me (It wasn't even something that I set out to catch).

Issue is, It doesn't really matter what I say. Doesn't really matter what I experienced. It can't be translated over to anyone else.
This is the problem with paranormal phenomena and this is why we probably will never get an answer to the question.
Am I making money from this and does my livelyhood depend on it? No.
Do I seek fame? No.

I don't even believe in a stereotypical idea of a "ghost", however I just think things exist that we don't know yet.