The Face Mask Controversy

[RoofGardener]

I find the masks awkward, and make my glasses steam up. 

But I can't afford a £100 fine

So I've come up with a brilliant wheeze. I've bought some face paint, and painted a mask on my lower face. 

[micahc]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

It seems they did to begin with and look where it got us, both you all and the U.S.  These rules would not have been made mandatory if people had acted with caution rather than defiance so that the numbers of cases went up instead of down.

I noticed when i went to the store a few weeks ago my rough estimate of mask wearers was maybe 60 percent.  the employees at the store i go to have been wearing them since the first time the CDC recommended them, and i bought one then as well and have worn it every time i went.  Out of respect for the employees at least. I work from home no matter, so i don't have to wear my mask all day.  then trump defied wearing a mask, made fun of Biden, and I noticed compliance dropped to near 20 percent in my estimation.  Then some stories came out that they were still recommended and seemed it was back around 60. But the thing that made the difference, was the mayor of the town made them mandatory a couple of weeks ago, and compliance is well over 90 percent. just a little leadership from the mayor made a huge difference.  If Trumpanov had the balls and the brains, perhaps none of this politicizing of mask wearing would have ever happened.  instead we have a president who is so cowardly, so vain and so stupid people are fighting over something that has been proven to make a difference.

[+OverSword]

It's mandatory here in businesses and outside if you are unable to maintain six foot distance.  I don't wear one while walking around outside but would estimate that around 80% to 90% do in the city.  I get a few people scowling at me and running to walk down the other side of the street.  

[+Desertrat56]

5 minutes ago, micahc said:

I noticed when i went to the store a few weeks ago my rough estimate of mask wearers was maybe 60 percent.  the employees at the store i go to have been wearing them since the first time the CDC recommended them, and i bought one then as well and have worn it every time i went.  Out of respect for the employees at least. I work from home no matter, so i don't have to wear my mask all day.  then trump defied wearing a mask, made fun of Biden, and I noticed compliance dropped to near 20 percent in my estimation.  Then some stories came out that they were still recommended and seemed it was back around 60. But the thing that made the difference, was the mayor of the town made them mandatory a couple of weeks ago, and compliance is well over 90 percent. just a little leadership from the mayor made a huge difference.  If Trumpanov had the balls and the brains, perhaps none of this politicizing of mask wearing would have ever happened.  instead we have a president who is so cowardly, so vain and so stupid people are fighting over something that has been proven to make a difference.

If I remember correctly Boris did something similar to Trump until he got the virus.  You are right about leadership making the difference.  The state I live in the governor has mandated masks since the end of March, and she did loosen restrictions and let restaurants open in May, but they are closed and now the mandatory  mask rule comes with a fine for anyone not wearing one in public.  You don't have to wear it in the parking lot but you have to have it on before you get to the door of what ever establishment you are entering. 

Our states numbers went up after restaurants opened so they are closed again, but our numbers per population have been consistently low in spite of two counties that have had more than half the cases in the whole state and 2/3 of the deaths.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Setton]

3 hours ago, TigerBright19 said:

They do in NI.  Bound to be some armed security men at British airports.  

But we're not talking about NI are we? As you've already said, masks are not required there. You also said shops, not airports.

Can you just let me know when you've decided which hill to die on? It'll save a lot of time.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Setton

[Setton]

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Be difficult to meet the burden of proof.

Remembered the term I wanted to use earlier - negligent homicide.

If you think you could have it (which is anyone who's gone outside or seen anyone in the last 2 weeks) and decide not to wear a mask, you are knowingly putting others at risk.

Probably only viable even hypothetically where there's a cluster of cases from one person.

[Setton]

55 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

If it doesn't hurt you in any way, and it could help you or someone else, why not just follow the rules?  It seems that you all (in the UK) have been doing that better than most (except maybe the Australians) for a long time. You let the government take your guns, so why now are you complaining about having to wear a face mask for health reasons, not just your health but the health of the community????

Re. bold - we asked them to to keep our kids safe. Get it right.

I agree with the rest.

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, Setton said:

Re. bold - we asked them to to keep our kids safe. Get it right.

I agree with the rest.

Yeah and how is that working for you?  Your kids aren't any safer are they because people who kill with guns, do it whether it is legal to have one or not.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Setton]

42 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I find the masks awkward, and make my glasses steam up. 

But I can't afford a £100 fine

So I've come up with a brilliant wheeze. I've bought some face paint, and painted a mask on my lower face. 

You know what I find uncomfortable?

The thought of my gran and parents choking to death in a hospital and not even being able to say goodbye because some self centered ass-hat didn't like his glasses steaming up.

Perhaps we just need to replace all the government rules and advice with a legal obligation not to be a ****? Would seem to address all those who decide to ignore them.

[Setton]

7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yeah and how is that working for you?  Your kids aren't any safer are they 

Yep. 

UK firearm deaths: 0.23 per 100,000

US: 12.21 per 100,000

It works. 

On the topic of easy measures to save lives that don't cost you anything, let's get back on topic: wearing a mask.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Setton

[bee]

50 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

@bee  my daughter just sent me a meme, and it is perfect for this thread.

"You know what's really uncomfortable?  A Bra! But we still wear one in public, not for me, but for others."     

 

I have (and will) will wear a mask in public for others - but a bra...?

NEVER

 

[bee]

6 minutes ago, Setton said:

You know what I find uncomfortable?

The thought of my gran and parents choking to death in a hospital and not even being able to say goodbye because some self centered ass-hat didn't like his glasses steaming up.

Perhaps we just need to replace all the government rules and advice with a legal obligation not to be a ****? Would seem to address all those who decide to ignore them.

 

jeeezus - it sounds like you would like to bring back hanging for anyone not wearing a mask...

or maybe make them wear a big yellow star .... ?

perhaps even for daring to make a little joke about it.... 

 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

2 minutes ago, bee said:

jeeezus - it sounds like you would like to bring back hanging for anyone not wearing a mask...

or maybe make them wear a big yellow star .... ?

perhaps even for daring to make a little joke about it.... 

 

No Bee, it doesn't sound like that at all. And I would prefer you kept references to 'yellow stars' out of this.

[bee]

6 hours ago, TigerBright19 said:

Have not worn a mask yet, and there are no plans yet for Northern Ireland shoppers to wear one.  I can't see the police enforcing the rule here without it turning nasty.  Just a thought, but what if there is another Islamic terrorist attack in England e.g. shopping centre, and police or security at shop doors is beefed up to the point that they see everyone as potential threats, and if some poor guy decides to barge his way into a shop without a mask on and the altercation causes a trigger happy security or nervous policeman to pull out his gun and take matters too far for what is simply a breakdown in communication between a shopper not wearing a mask, or a mask that does not meet government requirements - assuming there are minimum government requirements regarding the size, and thickness of masks.

 

 

 

thanks for news from Northern Ireland on the subject...

but re bolded...

YOU DO REALIZE THAT NOW.....

 

 

pic

 

[Setton]

22 minutes ago, bee said:

 

jeeezus - it sounds like you would like to bring back hanging for anyone not wearing a mask...

or maybe make them wear a big yellow star .... ?

perhaps even for daring to make a little joke about it.... 

 

Hanging? No.

House arrest until the pandemic is over?

Just seems sensible.

Edit: actually, I think an identifying symbol is a great idea. Worn on a large fabric patch over the mouth and nose and with straps over the ears to secure it. Don't mind what picture you want on it.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Setton

[odas]

52 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It's mandatory here in businesses and outside if you are unable to maintain six foot distance.  I don't wear one while walking around outside but would estimate that around 80% to 90% do in the city.  I get a few people scowling at me and running to walk down the other side of the street.  

So, at work you don't have a problem wearing a mask? Guess it is ok otherwise you would get fired and we don't want that, right?

Why not have the same attitude in private, for someones life's sake?

[acute]

51 minutes ago, Setton said:

UK firearm deaths: 0.23 per 100,000

US: 12.21 per 100,000

It works. 

53 times the number of UK firearm deaths is nothing to brag about. Thanks for those figures.

Gun control is something Americans will never understand, and I see restrictions due to the pandemic as a similar freedom/rights issue for the anti-maskers and reopeners over there.

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by acute
Clarity (I hope!)

[toast]

I put people who put the mask question into question in the same IQ drawer of people who believe the Moon to be hollow. A lot of these people say that wearing a mask is a "restriction of their personal freedom", which it isnt because its an important duty to others. Thats the point.

[bee]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

If it doesn't hurt you in any way, and it could help you or someone else, why not just follow the rules?  It seems that you all (in the UK) have been doing that better than most (except maybe the Australians) for a long time. You let the government take your guns, so why now are you complaining about having to wear a face mask for health reasons, not just your health but the health of the community????

 

I have stated earlier that I have worn a mask in shops since March... and I've followed the Govt guidelines and done all the other things that we have been asked to do.... my Mom is still confined to her Care Home and I haven't been able to take her out for months - but luckily (or not) her memory is so bad she doesn't remember what's going on from day to day...so she's ok and as happy as ever.. but to bring in this law at this late stage and make masks mandatory in shops seems the wrong move to me... like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted sort of thing...

one of the reasons that was said in the OP link was that it's to protect the shop staff....because there is said to be a high % of casualties / deaths but why wasn't this done in March when more people were getting it then...?...... now lots of protective measures are in place to help staff (and customers....).... and it seems to be working out and people are used to it... so NOW they decide that the staff are at risk and put this as a reason for the mandatory measures.... when it's all settled down and the pressures on the NHS have eased a lot...

again.... we were told repeatedly that the Lockdown measures etc. was to SLOW DOWN the spread so the NHS could cope... 

 

oh and the gun thing.... I didn't let the government take my guns - I never had any... 

 

 

 

[Susanc241]

I could understand all the reluctance or defiance to wearing a mask or face covering all the time you are outside your home, but we are being asked to put one on for the short times we are in a store or on a bus or train.  I don’t see the problem.  I don’t see it as an assault on anyone’s civil liberties.  There is a pandemic going on here and if you were being asked to wear one in ‘normal’ non pandemic times I could see a reason for rebellion.

MOST of us follow society’s rules and regulations - driving rules, stopping at red lights, indicating when you turn, not using the streets as a public toilet for ourselves or our dogs etc etc.  I don’t see much difference for what is something that we are going to be asked to do for a relatively short time (compared to life times of the usual rules and regulations we live by).

Edited July 15, 2020 by Susanc241
Removal of repeated word

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I have stated earlier that I have worn a mask in shops since March... and I've followed the Govt guidelines and done all the other things that we have been asked to do.... my Mom is still confined to her Care Home and I haven't been able to take her out for months - but luckily (or not) her memory is so bad she doesn't remember what's going on from day to day...so she's ok and as happy as ever.. but to bring in this law at this late stage and make masks mandatory in shops seems the wrong move to me... like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted sort of thing...

one of the reasons that was said in the OP link was that it's to protect the shop staff....because there is said to be a high % of casualties / deaths but why wasn't this done in March when more people were getting it then...?...... now lots of protective measures are in place to help staff (and customers....).... and it seems to be working out and people are used to it... so NOW they decide that the staff are at risk and put this as a reason for the mandatory measures.... when it's all settled down and the pressures on the NHS have eased a lot...

again.... we were told repeatedly that the Lockdown measures etc. was to SLOW DOWN the spread so the NHS could cope... 

 

oh and the gun thing.... I didn't let the government take my guns - I never had any... 

 

 

 

I agree, the masks should have been mandatory in March.  They were in my state, but not in very many others that early on, our governor followed the CDC guidelines and ignored the politics. 

I was wrong to bring up the guns, it just seems like a lot of the UK posters are going a bit overboard with the complaints about the masks and what ever the perception I have of the gun thing in your country was really irrelevant.  Just one of my triggers when I hear complaints about restrictions from what I perceive to be one of the more restricted first world countries.

P.S. my dad is in a nursing home and no one has been allowed in to visit since the second week of March, until recently they were all confined to their rooms, no congregating.  He also has no memory any more so I suppose one day is the same as another to him, but it is sad.  I do have to say, though that no one in that nursing home or any of the workers have contracted the virus.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Desertrat56

[bee]

7 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

 

Bee, I've never seen anyone suffering from this particular virus. However, one Christmas here, my sister took my mother shopping during flu season. Over the holiday, she came down with the flu which quickly morphed into consumptive pneumonia. Dad called me into their bedroom the night after Christmas, worried about her. I was shocked to hear her struggling to breath, wheezing and gurgling, her lungs filling with fluid. I asked him what was wrong with him, she needed to go to hospital. He called the ambulance and they took her. He stayed with her until, exhausted, he came home crying while my sister took over. He thought she was dying. I went to visit her the next day and was horrified at her appearance. They had given her a drug to draw the moisture out of her lungs and she was unconscious and grotesquely bloated. It was my turn to go home crying. However, the next afternoon after work I went to see her and marveled at the change. She was no longer bloated ad was conscious and talking. It was a month before she was well enough to go home. Sitting in her chair and reflecting on the experience, she said to me, "I almost died, didn't I?" I told yes, the doctors said we got her to hospital just in time. This is much like the experience of contracting this virus. Don't you think it better to be guilty of an over-abundance of caution, rather than not bothering to be cautious enough?

 

that's great that your Mom pulled through - 

we have the occasional story of very old people getting coronavirus and living to tell the tale... like a hundred years old...!

so a lot of it could be down to the general strength of the person's health and immune system..?. and one of the things that can weaken immune system's is stress.... and the way people have been scared half to death over all this cannot be helping...
 

I actually think my Mom and all the staff and residents at her Care Home had the 'coronavirus' at the end of last year... in fact when I was very ill with a virus in December I think I caught it off Mom!!..... I was saying at the time that I felt like I'd been hit with a biological weapon because of the different way it was... it had something about it that felt different from other virus's I'd had over the years... my Mom was pretty poorly as well and had a really bad chest for weeks... rattling and wheezing with every breath... but she got better in the end, as did I... this was before there was any mention about coronavirus being in the UK... so people just kind of treated it as normal even though it was quite severe at the time...  a friend said to me...you should go to the doctors but I just said I would get better on my own and I did... after having a horrendous cough for quite a long time .... 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by bee

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Remembered the term I wanted to use earlier - negligent homicide.

If you think you could have it (which is anyone who's gone outside or seen anyone in the last 2 weeks) and decide not to wear a mask, you are knowingly putting others at risk.

Probably only viable even hypothetically where there's a cluster of cases from one person.

No way to distinguish who contributed the virus. I suppose you could make a case for prosecuting government officials who allow Covid 19 positive patients admitted to nursing homes. Half the deaths here are nursing home related.

[micahc]

 

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, bee said:

 

that's great that your Mom pulled through - 

we have the occasional story of very old people getting coronavirus and living to tell the tale... like a hundred years old...!

so a lot of it could be down to the general strength of the person's health and immune system..?. and one of the things that can weaken immune system's is stress.... and the way people have been scared half to death over all this cannot be helping...
 

I actually think my Mom and all the staff and residents at her Care Home had the 'coronavirus' at the end of last year... in fact when I was very ill with a virus in December I think I caught it off Mom!!..... I was saying at the time that I felt like I'd been hit with a biological weapon because of the different way it was... it had something about it that felt different from other virus's I'd had over the years... my Mom was pretty poorly as well and had a really bad chest for weeks... rattling and wheezing with every breath... but she got better in the end, as did I... this was before there was any mention about coronavirus being in the UK... so people just kind of treated it as normal even though it was quite severe at the time...  a friend said to me...you should go to the doctors but I just said I would get better on my own and I did... after having a horrendous cough for quite a long time .... 

 

 

It could very well have been the flu, Bee, you don't know.  I was sick about the same time, too, but I don't know either. Don't kid yourself and chance it. I'd rather be silly than sick.