The Face Mask Controversy

[psyche101]

8 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Sure, have them isolate for weeks and months so that you and others can cling to your false sense of security.

It's not false, that's not an accurate statement by any means. The pandemic is very real, and masks do help. That is fact. 

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How about people who don't stick to strict hygiene measures and social distancing. Should they do the responsible thing and stay at home too?

Of course. 

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Do you honestly think that those people who are wearing fabric or ill-fitting masks are not potentially dangerous? Fabric masks are not effective in blocking virus particles that may be transmitted by coughing or sneezing. Whilst they might provide some protection, it is nowhere near complete, and people need to be congnisant of that and behave accordingly. A combination of preventaive measures is necessary, and even then, total safety is not guaranteed. Masks are not the panacea people think they are.

Nobody is saying they will end the virus. What they do is help. It's the best we have right now. To refuse to wear one, especially as some sort of anti government CT is just stupid and irresponsible. It's dumb, and that's what I have been saying all along. Do you not agree with that? We should try our best to do out bit. Masks are but some authoritarian draconian control move over the people. That's a childish and outright stupid thing to say 

That is what Bee proposed. Your argument of a small percentage of population with mental disorders is a different issue the way I see it. 

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Sure the ideal scenario is one where everyone wears masks, maintains good hygiene, and respects social distancing, but that scenario is, practically speaking, impossible. As long as those people who cannot wear masks stay clean and keep a distance, there is no reason why they should have to hole up somewhere until the crisis is over.

Ok I don't get this.

How is this different to what I'm saying? 

[psyche101]

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The flu is partially manageable. Not that it matters, because the reason I mentioned it in the first place was not to diminish the importance of taking measures to mitigate the current virus, but to illustrate that people also need to be cognisant of other viruses that are just as capable of killing people. 

Oh get of your high horse.

You think people are not aware? Nobody remembered bird flu, camel flu, swine flu? Ebola? You're not the only person on earth who realises there are readily viruses. That's been one of the biggest criticisms of government handling. We know the potential of what has just happened. Most weren't prepared due the severity of it and the species got a kick in the complacency as a result. 

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I agree, but I will not accuse people who cannot wear a mask of being irresponsible. If they adhere to everything else, they are doing their part, perhaps even moreso than those who are irresponsible with their masks.

I don't think that's ever been a real issue in this thread. It's a bugbear you seem to need to get of your chest. 

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

We are in agreement for the most part. Where we differ has to do with those who cannot, as opposed to will not, wear a mask.

No we don't. I think people who cannot wear a mask should take extra precautions for social distancing. It's that simple. We are in this together, we should do what we can. But make up reasos not to wear one.

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The quote above is Bee's statement not yours in case anyone is confused by it. Bee is not stating the virus is a hoax, just that the pandemic aspects of it are exaggerated.  

Are you for real? You're just being deliberately obtuse here aren't you. Is this a personal thing? Because otherwise I don't get it. She states 'fake pandemic that a very small percentage of people die from' and links mask wearing to authoritarian Government rule. 

That's just outright crazy talk. See a doctor level nutso talk. 

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

And whilst I agree with you that conspiracy theories can be quite harmful under the circumstances, so too can be the misinformation and mixed messages propagated by governments and medical professionals. Obviously opinions and recommendations will change as we continue to learn more about the virus, but they need to get their acts together and stop with the squabbling. They are contributing to the confusion, fear and paranoia, so the emergence of conspiracy theories should come as no surprise to anyone.

I just had a look at the Australian government website. 

https://www.health.gov.au/news/should-i-wear-a-face-mask-in-public

Where's all this misinformation?

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

You see it as human nature, I see it as poor impulse control. It's an immature and dangerous emotion.

And yet you accept  CT nutcases and their dumb propoganda as human nature? 

6 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

As for effecting change, that can be accomplished through discussion and education. I teach a course on masks and part of that instruction includes a section on who cannot wear masks and why. I have (since the virus) included a lecture on mask shaming and the potential detrimental effects of it. 

I think you should be broader in your view and not support nutters who refuse to wear a mask for unfounded paranoid nonsense too. You don't seem to have a problem with that, even though it's got to be contributing to the shaming problem you're so concerned about.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

12 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It's not false, that's not an accurate statement by any means. The pandemic is very real, and masks do help. That is fact. 

 

I repeat: cloth masks help but just a little. They give people a false sense of security and, in doing so, people stop maintaining an appropriate distance. They are also a health risk in that they cause respiratory illness and viral infections if worn for extended periods of time. There is good reason why cloth masks are never worn in a healthcare environment. I would argue that people wearing cloth masks (or blue surgical-type masks they have worn more than once) are more of a threat than someone who's not wearing a mask (but respectful of social distancing).

14 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Ok I don't get this.

How is this different to what I'm saying? 

It's different because you think that shaming people who cannot wear masks for whatever reason is an appropriate thing to do. It is not. It is also not appropriate to expect them to remain in isolation for however long is necessary.  

[Kittens Are Jerks]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Oh get of your high horse.

You first.

[psyche101]

12 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I repeat: cloth masks help but just a little. They give people a false sense of security and, in doing so, people stop maintaining an appropriate distance. They are also a health risk in that they cause respiratory illness and viral infections if worn for extended periods of time. There is good reason why cloth masks are never worn in a healthcare environment. I would argue that people wearing cloth masks (or blue surgical-type masks they have worn more than once) are more of a threat than someone who's not wearing a mask (but respectful of social distancing).

And what have I been saying?

Something is better than nothing. Even people wearing ineffective masks are setting an example. 

Quote

It's different because you think that shaming people who cannot wear masks for whatever reason is an appropriate thing to do. It is not. It is also not appropriate toe expectthem to remain in isolation for however long is necessary.  

Are you smoking whatever Bee is smoking?

No, I never said that at all. I said shaming is human nature. Not liking it won't stop it, and that people who make up dumb reasons not to wear one, like authoritarian government rule, are part, of not most of that very problem. If people didn't come up with such stupid reasons not to wear a mask, shaming night but he as bad as it is. 

I said there's not much you can do about it, and that people who come up with stupid reasons, like authoritarian government rule out to be shamed because they are being so stupid. They are a higher risk than uneducated people who can learn. Brazil's mayor comes to mind as another example.

Edited July 21, 2020 by psyche101

[psyche101]

9 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

You first.

I'm not claiming to be the sole holder of basic knowledge as you just did. I'm saying the proposed CT in this thread is uneducated and dumb. The way you post it seems you almost support the don't wear masks because of authoritarian government rule too. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I'm not claiming to be the sole holder of basic knowledge as you just did.

I never claimed such a thing. 

If you want to challenge my comments by all means do so. But do not (mis)read into them or get personal. If you need something clarified, ask and I will explain.

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I'm saying the proposed CT in this thread is uneducated and dumb. The way you post it seems you almost support the don't wear masks because of authoritarian government rule too. 

I have been very clear on why I don't support the wearing of certain kinds of masks and fail to understand how you confuse health concerns with conspiracy theories.

19 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Are you smoking whatever Bee is smoking?

Bee is entitled to think and believe whatever she wants. And whilst you are entitled to disagree with her, you are not entitled to continually bash and take digs at her.

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

We have masks that fit, I found them at Walgreens.  I am making the shield because we can't find a childs size to order that will arrive before the end of September.  I have already  made a prototype and fit it to him but the material is not flexible enough so I have to get a different gauge plastic sheet.

I know you have a military back ground, I dont know if you have access to the Military Exchange / PX or their online site. This may also be helpful to anyone who has access to these facilities or has a friend who has access because they can buy masks through the Military Exchange for you. The M95 / M94 masks are the best, but they are also selling surgical types masks in Quantitys of 20 per box.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/capelli-kn95-adult-disposable-soft-shell-face-mask-with-ear-loops-civil-use-3-pk-/2374451

Please pay attention to this, the cloth masks are certainly better than nothing. However, if you care about your health please consider this, you don't want to use a cloth mask if you you can get a Surgical style mask. The cloth masks are just not really effective in protecting you or others around you. But like others have said if that's all you have access to it's better then nothing, and it shows you care about those around you which makes you part of the cure not part of the problem.

 

Hope this helps

Edited July 21, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[psyche101]

6 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I never claimed such a thing. 

Well that's how I read it. You seem to think people aren't aware that things other than covid can kill. I'd say your drastically understating the average person.

6 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

If you want to challenge my comments by all means do so. But do not (mis)read into them or get personal. If you need something clarified, ask and I will explain.

Your comments are unrelated to the topic at hand. Authoritarian government rule forcing people to wear masks for some imaginary goal. 

6 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I have been very clear on why I don't support the wearing of certain kinds of masks and fail to understand how you confuse health concerns with conspiracy theories.

Because that what the thread is about. If you could pull your head our of your ego for a moment that might become apparent to you. 

Proper application of masks in public to reduce risk is a different subject to draconian government rule as far as I'm aware. 

6 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Bee is entitled to think and believe whatever she wants. And whilst you are entitled to disagree with her, you are not entitled to continually bash and take digs at her.

I'm certainly entitled to question and comment on the idiocy of the proposal and why it's detrimental to society. 

She is clearly referring to unfounded conspiracy theories that any normal person would object to. You are lecturing on mask wearing. Your not even in the same topic. 

[+Desertrat56]

18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I know you have a military back ground, I dont know if you have access to the Military Exchange / PX or their online site. This may also be helpful to anyone who has access to these facilities or has a friend who has access because they can buy masks through the Military Exchange for you. The M95 / M94 masks are the best, but they are also selling surgical types masks in Quantitys of 20 per box.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/capelli-kn95-adult-disposable-soft-shell-face-mask-with-ear-loops-civil-use-3-pk-/2374451

Please pay attention to this, the cloth masks are certainly better than nothing. However, if you care about your health please consider this, you don't want to use a cloth mask if you you can get a Surgical style mask. The cloth masks are just not really effective in protecting you or others around you. But like others have said if that's all you have access to it's better then nothing, and it shows you care about those around you which makes you part of the cure not part of the problem.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks.  I don't have access to the military stores.  And my grandson's school will not allow masks with filters as they are concerned that they can't supervise the fixing or changing the filter.  So they also require face shields.

[Grim Reaper 6]

Here is a number of mask producers located in texas have contact information they may supply masks to the general public, I don't know, but if you need masks it may be worth it to contact them, they may be able to meet your needs.

https://www.thomasnet.com/southern-texas/face-masks-50100403-1.html

Hope this helps

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Here is a number of mask producers located in texas have contact information they may supply masks to the general public, I don't know, but if you need masks it may be worth it to contact them, they may be able to meet your needs.

https://www.thomasnet.com/southern-texas/face-masks-50100403-1.html

Hope this helps

Another place you can get reusable masks, even masks with a filter pocket is the local quilting club.  Or check with the cloth stores and sewing stores.  I have made only about 50 for people, but I know some who have made over 500 masks. 

And if you have  a sewing machine there are youtube videos with patterns and instructions.  That is where I got the pattern for the mask I made, designed by a nurse and it includes a pocket for a filter, very easy to make.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Because that what the thread is about. If you could pull your head our of your ego for a moment that might become apparent to you. 

Pulling my head out of my ego is a task so impossible I'll not even attempt it. But how about you pull your head out of your behind and read Bee's opening post. Everything I have discussed is well within the range of issues she raised, including the proper wearing of masks. Besides, if and when I do get off topic, Bee is entitled to chastise me for it, you are not. So by all means remain fixated on the draconian, authoritative aspect of it as you seem to relish your relentless shaming of Bee, but know that your personal attacks reflect more on you than they do her.

[Grim Reaper 6]

29 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I never claimed such a thing. 

If you want to challenge my comments by all means do so. But do not (mis)read into them or get personal. If you need something clarified, ask and I will explain.

I have been very clear on why I don't support the wearing of certain kinds of masks and fail to understand how you confuse health concerns with conspiracy theories.

Bee is entitled to think and believe whatever she wants. And whilst you are entitled to disagree with her, you are not entitled to continually bash and take digs at her.

I also have a problem with Bee, first of all she puts forward information that is inaccurate and detrimental to any known scientific approach to this subject. Second, in far to many cases she involves herself in threads concerning the problems we are facing in America, and again she adds information that is scientifically inaccurate and that is only opinion based. None of the American members of this forum need this, the fact is there is far to much misinformation already being intentionally added to conversations, which only serves to confuse the subject further. 

I don't know what anyone else thinks about this subject, but I do have a problem with anyone spreading uninformed and even dangerous information on threads on these topics where American forum  members are adding information to help other forum members. If you don't agree with me here, that's fine, we can agree to disagree that's the professional way to look at this. But, please understand for future reference if someone is putting out incorrect or false information I am going to let them know what they are doing is wrong, if they chose to argue, unlike them I will provide proof their wrong and call them for doing so. So that's my personal problem with Bee and others who chose to add opinion based information,there simply is no room for information that isn't scientifically accurate.

Take Care.

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

15 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Another place you can get reusable masks, even masks with a filter pocket is the local quilting club.  Or check with the cloth stores and sewing stores.  I have made only about 50 for people, but I know some who have made over 500 masks. 

And if you have  a sewing machine there are youtube videos with patterns and instructions.  That is where I got the pattern for the mask I made, designed by a nurse and it includes a pocket for a filter, very easy to make.

Here in Korea there is no shortage of masks, here you buy as many as you need. I personally only wear the M95 respirator masks, like the health care workers are wearing in hospitals. The PX here sells over 25 different medical mask grades, like I said there is shortage here. But thank you very much for the information you supplied above, and seriously you must be very talented to make masks like that, I think it's really great.

Thank you very much for your reply and thanks for the information. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

29 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Thanks.  I don't have access to the military stores.  And my grandson's school will not allow masks with filters as they are concerned that they can't supervise the fixing or changing the filter.  So they also require face shields.

I am sorry to hear that, it a shame because it is a source you can trust, here is another link to mask and PPE providers where you may be able to find a face shield. Oh and by the way the link I provided above is for surgical masks they do not have screw on filters.

https://www.thomasnet.com/southern-texas/face-masks-50100403-1.html

Take care, hope you find what your looking for.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

Just now, Manwon Lender said:

I also have a problem with Bee, first of all she puts forward information that is inaccurate and detrimental to any known scientific approach to this subject. Second, in far to many cases she involves herself in threads concerning the problems we are facing in America, and again she adds information that is scientifically inaccurate and that is only opinion based. None of the American members of this forum need this, the fact is there is far to much misinformation already being intentionally added to conversations, which only serves to confuse the subject further. 

I don't know what anyone else thinks about this subject, but I do have a problem with anyone spreading uninformed and even dangerous information on threads on these topics where American forum  members are adding information to help other forum members. If you don't agree with me here, that's fine, we can agree to disagree that's the professional way to look at this. But, please understand for future reference if someone is putting out incorrect or false information I am going to let them know what they are doing is wrong, if they chose to argue, unlike them I will provide proof their wrong and call them for doing so. So that's my personal problem with Bee and others who chose to add opinion based information,there simply is no room for information that isn't scientifically accurate.

Take Care.

I too have a problem with inaccurate and potentially dangerous information. But there are a great number of people who believe such information, so in a way I am glad it is raised so that we have an opportunity to address it. If there was no discussion, there would be no better understanding, or awareness of what some of the facts really are. The discussion may or may not change people's minds, but at least all perspectives are out there and people can (and will) decide for themselves.

Ultimately, people are entitled to state their beliefs. Others are entitled to challenge those beliefs. But personal attacks and digs are uncalled for and accomplish nothing. As for any problems regarding other members, topic threads are not the place to air them. 

[psyche101]

58 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Pulling my head out of my ego is a task so impossible I'll not even attempt it. But how about you pull your head out of your behind and read Bee's opening post.

My behind seems to be as effective as your brain. The OP says:

At the moment I feel that this is an unnecessary and draconian move -

Then Bee starts with questions like "are they even effective' to further that nonsense. 

Quote

Everything I have discussed is well within the range of issues she raised, including the proper wearing of masks. Besides, if and when I do get off topic, Bee is entitled to chastise me for it, you are not. So by all means remain fixated on the draconian, authoritative aspect of it as you seem to relish your relentless shaming of Bee, but know that your personal attacks reflect more on you than they do her.

Yes, I'm fixated on the misinformation giving rise to an excuse to be publicly irresponsible. Take your white knight helmet off and try reading the thread again.

Edited July 22, 2020 by psyche101

[Grim Reaper 6]

54 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I too have a problem with inaccurate and potentially dangerous information. But there are a great number of people who believe such information, so in a way I am glad it is raised so that we have an opportunity to address it. If there was no discussion, there would be no better understanding, or awareness of what some of the facts really are. The discussion may or may not change people's minds, but at least all perspectives are out there and people can (and will) decide for themselves.

Ultimately, people are entitled to state their beliefs. Others are entitled to challenge those beliefs. But personal attacks and digs are uncalled for and accomplish nothing. As for any problems regarding other members, topic threads are not the place to air them. 

I agree and disagree with you at the same time. When something is proven to be patently wrong and people are continuing to spread this false inaccurate information they need to be stopped from doing so anyway that is possible within forum rules. Like I said when people are spreading this information based only on their opinion, which Bee is known for doing she needs to be educated that her opinions are not fact based. Now, many have tried to do this with her, she doesn't even read the links to information provided, and that is obvious because in her next post she doesn't even mention the information and continues with her opinion based knowledge.

If you think that's ok, that's your choice, but for me that will not be allowed to happen without resistance. So like I said she is not the only one doing this, but I personally believe if she wants to offer her opinions she should also be able to handle the backlash that results from her comments. So like I said we can agree to disagree on this subject, because when your adding information that is detrimental to others health those opinions are unwarranted and certainly not necessarily.

Take Care

Edited July 22, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:09 AM, and then said:

One might ask if those who are advising extreme lock-down-type measures, have considered the morbidity and mortality that flows as a consequence of that.  The CFR IS very limited and yes, every life lost too soon is a tragedy for their family but we have to keep things in perspective.  The 1918 Influenza was FAR worse than this and they went about their life normally, as best they could.  No government handouts and few restrictions.

This virus is indeed a scourge and is causing unnecessary suffering and death but life goes on just as it always has done.

Please add a link for your information above, that the CFR is so very limited, the 1918 Influenza has nothing to do with this and to bring it up here is mute. It's best for all concerned to stay focused on COVID19 and the facts about it. Like this fact, this is a Novel Virus, and the affects of which have never been seen before. I agree with you the Virus is scourge,  but down playing things, as far as saying that during the 1918 Pandemic they just went about lives with no government handouts and few restrictions is a worthless comment. 

While in reality they did that, it wasn't for the reasons your alluding to though. It was because of ignorance not only by the people, but also because of the limited knowledge Medical Professionals had at the time and do to this behavior you are trying to make an example of 50 Million people died. These people didn't die because there was no other option, they died because the Medical professionals didn't have the knowledge we do now, so please don't try to make things look like that's just the way things go, because it isn't and to think in those terms is foolish.

Lets face the reality of the 1918 Pandemic if it happened today, I think we can honestly say that no where near, 50 million people would die, so the next time you anyone else chose to use that anology, it may be best not to use it. Becuase doing so first isn't realistic and second it's nothing but a deversion from the topic at hand.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Golden Duck]

2 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I repeat: cloth masks help but just a little. They give people a false sense of security and, in doing so, people stop maintaining an appropriate distance. They are also a health risk in that they cause respiratory illness and viral infections if worn for extended periods of time. There is good reason why cloth masks are never worn in a healthcare environment. I would argue that people wearing cloth masks (or blue surgical-type masks they have worn more than once) are more of a threat than someone who's not wearing a mask (but respectful of social distancing).

Cloth masks are intended to mitigate the spread, by about 60 per cent, from asymptomatic people.  P2/N95 protect the wearer from breathing in about 95 per cent of airborne particles; but, when breathing out there is no filter and the particles are exhaled in a jet-like plume.  However, an ill-fitted P2/NP5 mask offers about the same protection as a surgical mask.

Fabric masks with vacuum cleaner bags are quite good; and, maybe even a better option for public transport.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

14 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Cloth masks are intended to mitigate the spread, by about 60 per cent, from asymptomatic people.  P2/N95 protect the wearer from breathing in about 95 per cent of airborne particles; but, when breathing out there is no filter and the particles are exhaled in a jet-like plume.  However, an ill-fitted P2/NP5 mask offers about the same protection as a surgical mask.

Fabric masks with vacuum cleaner bags are quite good; and, maybe even a better option for public transport.

I'm aware of the efficacy of masks and the evidence that supports it, but my point was that those benefits are minimised when the masks are mishandled or improperly taken care of. My other point was on the importance of maintaining proper hygiene and social distancing even whilst wearing a mask as (1) masks aren't fully protective and (2) we can still catch the virus through the membranes in our eyes. So a combination of a number of precautions is essential. Obviously absolute prevention is unrealistic but reducing the risk is not, so doing as much as possible is important.

Here's a general study comparing mask materials for anyone who is interested:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567v2.full.pdf

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I'm aware of the efficacy of masks and the evidence that supports it, but my point was that those benefits are minimised when the masks are mishandled or improperly taken care of. My other point was on the importance of maintaining proper hygiene and social distancing even whilst wearing a mask as (1) masks aren't fully protective and (2) we can still catch the virus through the membranes in our eyes. So a combination of a number of precautions is essential. Obviously absolute prevention is unrealistic but reducing the risk is not, so doing as much as possible is important.

Here's a general study comparing mask materials for anyone who is interested:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567v2.full.pdf

The general study doesn't cover spread by asymptomatic carriers.  I thought it interesting that carriers could be producing a jet stream of particles.

[bee]

5 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I too have a problem with inaccurate and potentially dangerous information. But there are a great number of people who believe such information, so in a way I am glad it is raised so that we have an opportunity to address it. If there was no discussion, there would be no better understanding, or awareness of what some of the facts really are. The discussion may or may not change people's minds, but at least all perspectives are out there and people can (and will) decide for themselves.

Ultimately, people are entitled to state their beliefs. Others are entitled to challenge those beliefs. But personal attacks and digs are uncalled for and accomplish nothing. As for any problems regarding other members, topic threads are not the place to air them. 

 

thank you

and thanks also to you and others who have made educational posts about the quality of masks and wearing of them...

setting aside the other issues for the moment - one good thing about all this is raising awareness in general about the subject...

hospitals and doctors surgeries have been breeding grounds for virus's being passed on to other people in a vulnerable state of health -
perhaps people will choose to wear face masks more in these settings - especially when they are the ones who have a virus of any kind....

in the past I have tried to sit as far away as I could from someone in a doctor's surgery who looked really ill and possibly contagious... and pulled something over my nose and mouth like the corner of coat or neck of tea shirt (but a bit discreetly so not to make the ill person feel bad because they were suffering anyway  ) .... those days have gone I think.... and now people will feel ok about wearing a face mask in a doctor's surgery of hospital any time .... 

I remember just a few years ago (2013) after I had an operation and when I came out of the anesthetic there was a nurse working on the ward coughing and sneezing and obviously ill with a virus or flu  - (not wearing a mask) I asked to speak to the shift leader and they didn't seem too worried that I had concerns about catching a virus / flu while I was recovering from the op.....

then it all went pear shaped and I had to have another (emergency) operation (not because of having caught a virus it was complications from the first op...)   and I ended up on life support..

my daughter was getting over the tail end a virus of some sort and she made sure she bought and wore a face mask when she came into the intensive care unit to see me... the nurse looking after me thanked her for that - for protecting the staff and patients (and me) because it wasn't something people normally did... even in Intensive care... those days have gone as well.... as knowledge and awareness have increased...

 

 

[RoofGardener]

Just in case anyone hasn't already posted this; the UK government have made it mandatory - on pain of fines - for everyone to wear a mask in the UK when in public areas, starting 24th July. 

The idea is not to protect the individual, but to minimise the risk from asymptomatic infected people spreading the disease to others.