diddyman68 Posted July 17, 2020 Author #26 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, micahc said: see you would know that better than I. I remember stories about footballers raising hell. but I never heard any political argument. I just thought it was the brits can't handle their booze..lol. sorry No need to apologise micahc .but the narrative was people fighting at football matches were right wing racist extremist bigots.when in actual fact they were averave blokes mostly labour voters,working class guys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 17, 2020 #27 Share Posted July 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Golden Duck said: tribalism. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddyman68 Posted July 17, 2020 Author #28 Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: How about just being yourself ? There really is no need to allways try to put people into neat little boxes with neat little labels on. You are unlikely to find a party that you agree with fully, so use your own judgement and stop worrying about the label and the box. That is what my op eluded to.everbody describing these people as right wing They pigeonholed them all as right wing extremists, Most of them were central minded,with views left and right.but mostly labour voters. But the labour party condemned them.people remember that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddyman68 Posted July 17, 2020 Author #29 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Piney said: tribalism Thats it ,in a nutshell.. Even though it was golden duck who said it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted July 17, 2020 #30 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The very ones who claim people shouldn't be pigeonholed are the ones who do it the most. Every post, they search for a word, sentence or comment they don't agree with and you are automatically the racist, right wing, boogeyman/woman. Then they rant accordingly. That's why the left's all inclusiveness is total bunk. Now, watch what happens. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedutchiedutch Posted July 17, 2020 #31 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I remember the good ole 80s and 90s when I was still young and strong but oh so stupid lol. I think it was 1983 in Rotterdam. My Feyenoord played the Spurs. I remember we lost the game but we won the fights and at that moment in the world of soccer hooligans that was all that counted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddyman68 Posted July 17, 2020 Author #32 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, diddyman68 said: Im 52 , Why,whats the problem.? Sorry @spartan max2 That sounds very defensive, Like when i was walking home from gateshead high street,and the coppers stopped us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddyman68 Posted July 17, 2020 Author #33 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said: I remember the good ole 80s and 90s when I was still young and strong but oh so stupid lol. I think it was 1983 in Rotterdam. My Feyenoord played the Spurs. I remember we lost the game but we won the fights and at that moment in the world of soccer hooligans that was all that counted. And i bet yous were branded right wing racists as well.,even though you weren't.just a bunch of mates having a laugh and drink and maybe a scrap. Anyways i heard spurs done yas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 17, 2020 #34 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Piney said: This doco touched on the tribalism in one of the great rivalries in AFL. it's really good because its an outside perspective. https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2017/05/09/what-do-americans-think-afl Edited July 17, 2020 by Golden Duck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted July 17, 2020 #35 Share Posted July 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: How about just being yourself ? There really is no need to allways try to put people into neat little boxes with neat little labels on. You are unlikely to find a party that you agree with fully, so use your own judgement and stop worrying about the label and the box. That's the best post in this thread, and your right the labels are worthless and foolish. In the old days it was more important to choose Leader, at least in America, who had the qualifications to do the best job possible for my country. Today, qualifications are not important, all you have to do is look at the accomplishments of our current President and it become obvious he certainly doesnt have the Leadership ability needed to serve my countries interests. His election is further proof that qualifications mean nothing and that elections are bought and sold by special interest groups, where it is a rare occurrence when the best qualified candidate happens to also be the choice of special interest groups. In my country political parties are destroying my Nation, I think the title of Right and Left show should be abolished, I also think that maneuvering for seats in the House and the Senate should also be changed. I think seats should be divided equally between the two parties so no one has a majority, this way to get anything accomplished it will require bipartisanship, because this is the major problem in Americas Political System today, there is no bipartisanship only bickering and infighting. I am certainly no an expert on the Political system, my thoughts above are mine alone and are not based upon any model that I am aware of. So if my comments sound uneducated they certainly may be, but to me it seems like a logical step in the right direction, because the present method being used has proven over the last 200 plus years to not be effective. So let the attacks begin, I can take it!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Razman Posted July 17, 2020 #36 Share Posted July 17, 2020 So in a basic way , what is the difference between left and right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedutchiedutch Posted July 17, 2020 #37 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, diddyman68 said: And i bet yous were branded right wing racists as well.,even though you weren't.just a bunch of mates having a laugh and drink and maybe a scrap. Anyways i heard spurs done yas. Hmmm.... I don't remember being left or right was a big thing with hooliganism in the Netherlands. We just stood up for our club and city and the crowd I hanged with was a mixture of all kinds of races and backgrounds. We didn't have the 'Skinhead culture" like you guys had. And yes the Spurs won the game but not the fights. I was there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 17, 2020 #38 Share Posted July 17, 2020 this fits in with the thread topic.... one of the comments below video... "Haha "I didn't know I was far right"...."now I'm on the left, and I didn't know that either"...perfection! hahaha!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 17, 2020 #39 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 hours ago, diddyman68 said: What i was talking about in the op was the msm said the hooligans that were rampaging through europe during the 80s were right wing extremists.when in fact they were mostly left leaning working class blokes,happy just to have a crappy job,that paid enough for them to pay the bills,feed the kids and let them keep going to games I think the range between "Left" and "Right" changes regularly: https://conceptually.org/concepts/overton-window This concept explains how that occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 17, 2020 #40 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Golden Duck said: tribalism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 17, 2020 #41 Share Posted July 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Piney said: Embolism? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 17, 2020 #42 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, Golden Duck said: Embolism? Shoulder aneurysm. Like Kevin Sorbo had.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted July 17, 2020 #43 Share Posted July 17, 2020 11 hours ago, diddyman68 said: When i was a kid i always seen myself as left wing,i live in an area that always voted labour,my parents demanded i vote labour.as they did.because labour helped the working class,was all about a fair days pay for a fair days work.so the working class were seen as left wing. But what got me thinking during the 80s was,when england football hooligans were rampaging through sweden,one hooligan spoke to the press,and said. We are called far right extremists,and racist.but ask them who they will vote for in the next election,most of them will say labour.of course labour called them right wing bigots. As i was into the football scene at that time i totally agreed with what he said.but i never considered myself right wing or racist. So the press portraid football hooligans as right wing,when they were actually left wing. But they will never admit that. So as regards to labour,i have woke up,they are not for the working class.they see them as racist bigots. In political science then left and right wing are a measure of how many people hold power and the degree to which the population are legislated against to keep them in line. Far-left: These are dictatorships, monarchies, and theocracies. One (or a small number of people) hold the power, make the laws, and then legislate against the population to force them to fall into place with those laws. Far-right: These are true democracies. To date only ancient Greece had true democracies because back then city states only had a few thousand citizens. It meant the whole population could cram into a stadium and vote on every topic. This meant the people held the power and the minimum level of legislation existed which was in everyone`s interest. With socialists they are on the left because they introduce heavy red tape and regulations. People will not voluntarily allow their wealth to be redistributed away so they need legislating against to force it. With capitalists they are on the right because they believe in a free market light with the red tape and regulations. Socialism and capitalist are not normally far-left or far-right but there is a tendency for them to slip there if they become too powerful. Racism is neither left or right wing. As I have always pointed out the Nazi party were far-left because they had a dictator who legislated against the population to force them to fall into place below him. If you look at their name (the nationalist socialist workers party) and their policies (from nationalising industries, creating a classless state, to expanding state healthcare and benefits) they were well and truly socialist. When it comes to socialism there wasn`t much difference between Hitler and Stalin. In fact, the only real difference is Hitler hated the Russians and saw them as a people to be conquered then used as slave labour. In more modern times a new derogatory term has emerged called `right-wing` which is not the same as the correct usage of the term in political science. Its applied to anybody or anything which opposes immigration regardless of where they exist along the left-right spectrum. And gets applied to those ones who are actually racists too. Trump is very right about one thing, and that is the crazies in the US dont even know why they are behaving the way that they do. Upon questioning them their views arent coherent or based on facts and evidence. But since when did logic or truth matter to someone led by their emotions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted July 17, 2020 #44 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, razman said: So in a basic way , what is the difference between left and right? At the extremes.....nothing. Actually one difference. Extreme right wing dictatorships end up killing millions of other countries citizens - Hitler, Extreme left wing dictatorships end up killing millions of their own citizens - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. Edited July 17, 2020 by itsnotoutthere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 17, 2020 #45 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I think that - back in the 80's in England - the National Front (and later, the BNP) did infiltrate football crowds to try and recruit people. That may be where the label "right-wing thugs" came from ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenking Posted July 17, 2020 #46 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I think the extreme left and right are both kinds of socialists. Their label is to make people even. Everyone is supposed to think and act in the same way. Those who don't comply will be neutralized in one way or another. No wonder political leaders like it because it makes governing much easier. The end result is some kind of dictatorship where those on top can do whatever they want and the the big rest will be suppressed. This happened over and over again in history and is happening right now all over the world. But in the long term freedom cannot be supressed because it is part of the human nature. We are no insects, we are individuals and this is why any kind of socialism, right or left, is wrong. The most happy, creative and strongest people are those who enjoy the most freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon G Posted July 17, 2020 #47 Share Posted July 17, 2020 13 hours ago, diddyman68 said: So the press portraid football hooligans as right wing,when they were actually left wing. Sorry but this is just utter bull. There have been enough research around that politics was or is only a minor factor in the football hooligan industry. Yes there are right winged hooligan sections (Look at ONR for instance in Poland) and left winged hooligan sections (for example Borussia Dortumund and St Pauli). But most off these sections are not political based. In my country for instance Standard de Liege is known to be left winged and Club Brugge known to be right winged. Then again I would not wonder about the fact if you are right or left winged. The right wing is not what people want to make you believe in it. And the left wing neither. Either way if we want solution to help society moving forward and thrive we need both of them to acomplish that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon G Posted July 17, 2020 #48 Share Posted July 17, 2020 11 hours ago, diddyman68 said: And i bet yous were branded right wing racists This is so twisted. I have never seen more racist people then the extreme lefties. It is a story about the cattle blaming the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted July 17, 2020 #49 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Anyone who is not a right wing, liberal*, communist - like wot I is - is, by definition, an extremist (Or, put another way: most folk actually span the whole political spectrum, probably with a tendency to gravitate towards the middle; it's those who gather only at one or other end that are the problem) * liberal as used in 96% of the world, not the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted July 17, 2020 #50 Share Posted July 17, 2020 14 hours ago, diddyman68 said: That is what my op eluded to.everbody describing these people as right wing They pigeonholed them all as right wing extremists, Most of them were central minded,with views left and right.but mostly labour voters. But the labour party condemned them.people remember that. Are you sure it was "everybody" or just the media with an agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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