+and-then Posted July 17, 2020 #1 Share Posted July 17, 2020 https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/09/the-thucydides-trap/ https://www.quora.com/What-is-Thucydides’s-Trap?share=1 The phrase ‘Thucydides’s Trap’ was coined by an American political scientist and Harvard professor, Graham T. Allison, to describe the phenomena of a rising power and an established dominant power almost always breaking into conflict. He took the term from the writings of Thucydides who was writing on the state of Greek affairs in The History of the Peloponnesian War which describes a series of wars between Athens and Sparta that changed the balance of power in Greece. Thucydides was commenting that the rise of Athens spawned fears in Sparta, an already established power who subsequently started to arm itself for war. China is pushing forcefully in the South China Sea, the Indian border, and against the U.S. on many fronts. They also have unrest in Hong Kong and are facing a Mega Disaster if the rain keeps falling and causing weakening of the 3 Gorges Dam. Will they push too hard and miscalculate? Would they be foolish enough to threaten the use of nukes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 17, 2020 #2 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, and then said: China is pushing forcefully in the South China Sea, the Indian border, and against the U.S. on many fronts. They also have unrest in Hong Kong and are facing a Mega Disaster if the rain keeps falling and causing weakening of the 3 Gorges Dam. Will they push too hard and miscalculate? Would they be foolish enough to threaten the use of nukes? Confucianism is about defeating a enemy using economics and political unrest. The pushing in the South China Sea comes from Western powers pushing first. The fiasco on the Indian Border started with a fight club. The unrest in Hong Kong is a fly in the face and the 3 Gorges has nothing to do with international politics. America needs to stop being threatening, feel threatened and making enemies where there was none. Edited July 17, 2020 by Piney Where's the red paint? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter B Posted July 19, 2020 #3 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 8:32 PM, Piney said: Confucianism is about defeating a enemy using economics and political unrest. The pushing in the South China Sea comes from Western powers pushing first. The fiasco on the Indian Border started with a fight club. The unrest in Hong Kong is a fly in the face and the 3 Gorges has nothing to do with international politics. America needs to stop being threatening, feel threatened and making enemies where there was none. With the greatest of respect, what I'm seeing and reading is that China is a threat. If not currently and immediately to the USA, then certainly to countries in the Asia-Pacific region. Personally, I don't see China needing to push for war at the moment, but it certainly seems to be seeing how hard it can push outwards short of war. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 19, 2020 #4 Share Posted July 19, 2020 59 minutes ago, Peter B said: With the greatest of respect, what I'm seeing and reading is that China is a threat. If not currently and immediately to the USA, then certainly to countries in the Asia-Pacific region. Personally, I don't see China needing to push for war at the moment, but it certainly seems to be seeing how hard it can push outwards short of war. If you look back in history British, European and American colonialism started the whole p***ing contest to begin with. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 19, 2020 #5 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Of wise men and wise guys... Quote https://www.nytimes.com › books-o... BOOKS OF THE TIMES - The New York Times 2 Oct 1986 · THE WISE MEN: Six Friends and the World They Made. By Walter ... The United States commander in Vietnam, Gen. www.politico.com LBJ confers with 'The Wise Men,' March 25, 1968 25 Mar 2018 · Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas is seen. One of LBJ's “wise men” was Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas. | AP Photo ... www.washingtonpost.com Opinion | It's the Wise Men vs. the wise guys in Trump's America 14 Nov 2019 · Jon Meacham is the author, most recently, of “The Soul of America.” Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas ... ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 19, 2020 Author #6 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 5:32 AM, Piney said: The pushing in the South China Sea comes from Western powers pushing first. You consider that demanding free passage is "pushing"? The issues in HK probably seem a bit more important to those whose freedoms are being torn from them and if the 3 Gorges fails, the situation within China will be tremendously more stressful for the CCP. China has had a free ride economically for a very long time and that is coming to an end - unless the dementia patient becomes president. They are growing their military as quickly as they can and they are striving to be a world power at the fastest pace they can sustain. I see no problem with them growing, that's the nature of nations. It's the conflicts that arise during the transition that this thread is about. IMO, anyone who supports them, KNOWING about the concentration camps, has already made their peace with evil. I just have trouble believing the smiling faces while watching trains being loaded. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 19, 2020 #7 Share Posted July 19, 2020 It is surprising how differently we view events in two different countries. In Minneapolis protesters and rioters are slime and thugs upsetting law and order and trying to destroy the country. Pulling down statues is a crime against the state and the "People's History" Some say anybody that threatens a policeman should just get a bullet in the head on the spot. Only quiet peaceful protests are allowed, and the people in power will decide if they are even justified or just whining. In Honk Kong that minority of citizens who are protesters; burning, smashing, rioting, upsetting law and order, trying to unseat duly elected officials and threatening policemen are freedom fighters. Go figure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 19, 2020 Author #8 Share Posted July 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Some say anybody that threatens a policeman should just get a bullet in the head on the spot. If you are referring to me, you are lying. Unless you actually believe that striking someone on the head, repeatedly, with a blunt object is equivalent to "threatening". Those in HK are reacting to the CCP changing the rules so that anyone who steps out of line can be disappeared into the mainland. Do those seem equivalent to you, as well? Maybe you should "go figure". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 19, 2020 #9 Share Posted July 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, and then said: If you are referring to me, you are lying. Unless you actually believe that striking someone on the head, repeatedly, with a blunt object is equivalent to "threatening". Those in HK are reacting to the CCP changing the rules so that anyone who steps out of line can be disappeared into the mainland. Do those seem equivalent to you, as well? Maybe you should "go figure". Naw, I don't really believe that, but I knew I would get a reaction from somebody I am just using a page out of the President's book and learning to control conservatives and keep their panties in a twist. It is just an enjoyable way to spend a Sunday morning. i can see why the President enjoys it so much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 19, 2020 #10 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, and then said: IMO, anyone who supports them, KNOWING about the concentration camps, has already made their peace with evil. I just have trouble believing the smiling faces while watching trains being loaded. Like the ones on the border? Betsy DeVos' brother Erik Prince is making a pretty penny because of those camps. The way I look at them is certain Turkish Muslims shouldn't of declared a crusade against Buddhism and lied about their origins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 19, 2020 #11 Share Posted July 19, 2020 4 hours ago, and then said: You consider that demanding free passage is "pushing"? The issues in HK probably seem a bit more important to those whose freedoms are being torn from them and if the 3 Gorges fails, the situation within China will be tremendously more stressful for the CCP. China has had a free ride economically for a very long time and that is coming to an end - unless the dementia patient becomes president. They are growing their military as quickly as they can and they are striving to be a world power at the fastest pace they can sustain. I see no problem with them growing, that's the nature of nations. It's the conflicts that arise during the transition that this thread is about. IMO, anyone who supports them, KNOWING about the concentration camps, has already made their peace with evil. I just have trouble believing the smiling faces while watching trains being loaded. Who is supporting them? Specifically, in your mind, who is supporting them? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 20, 2020 Author #12 Share Posted July 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Piney said: Like the ones on the border? I didn't realize these Uyghurs were crossing into China illegally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 20, 2020 Author #13 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Golden Duck said: Who is supporting them? Specifically, in your mind, who is supporting them? We have a few right here on UM who do so with pride. All you have to do is read threads. FTR, I don't think that turning a blind eye to a potential genocide is a humane thing to do. To each his own, I guess. It'd be different if there was no proof it was actually happening. That just isn't the case anymore. If someone brings it up to discuss, we either get the slack-jawed idiot emoji () or some kind of whataboutism. I wonder how they'd react if it were actually happening here. The bit about camps on the borders is straight up political nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted July 20, 2020 #14 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, and then said: I didn't realize these Uyghurs were crossing into China illegally. They claiming a history and territory that isn't their's and a holy war. Edited July 20, 2020 by Piney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 20, 2020 #15 Share Posted July 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, and then said: We have a few right here on UM who do so with pride. All you have to do is read threads. FTR, I don't think that turning a blind eye to a potential genocide is a humane thing to do. To each his own, I guess. It'd be different if there was no proof it was actually happening. That just isn't the case anymore. If someone brings it up to discuss, we either get the slack-jawed idiot emoji () or some kind of whataboutism. I wonder how they'd react if it were actually happening here. The bit about camps on the borders is straight up political nonsense. Where's here? Anti-Muslim activity is happening here. We can even see the double standard from the Anti Defamation Commission. https://www.antidefamation.com.au/cricket-australia-warns-perth-trio-controversial-banner-optus-stadium/ https://www.antidefamation.com.au/tasmanian-senators-backed-racist-message-mistake/ Not a peep from the Zionists when Lauren Southern wears the same slogan across her chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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