TrumanB Posted July 17, 2020 #1 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I watched The Entity which led me to this case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Bither_case https://paranormal.lovetoknow.com/ghosts-hauntings/doris-bither-entity-haunting There is some smoke there but is there a fire? For example, this part: They photographed Doris sitting on the bed with a light arc formed directly over her head.At one point, the lights in the bedroom came together and formed the upper torso of a man appearing near Doris and moving as a human would move. At the time, there were about two dozen people in the room who all witnessed the same thing. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 17, 2020 #2 Share Posted July 17, 2020 That is creepy stuff. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 17, 2020 #3 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, TrumanB said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Bither_case https://paranormal.lovetoknow.com/ghosts-hauntings/doris-bither-entity-haunting There is some smoke there but is there a fire? For example, this part: They photographed Doris sitting on the bed with a light arc formed directly over her head.At one point, the lights in the bedroom came together and formed the upper torso of a man appearing near Doris and moving as a human would move. At the time, there were about two dozen people in the room who all witnessed the same thing. One more case I'll add on to my lifetime list of paranormal cases that I consider for quantity, quality and consistency. This case sounds extreme but not unprecedented in the annals of the paranormal. It's quite the wild ride universe I have come to believe! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittens Are Jerks Posted July 17, 2020 #4 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Dr. Taff did not believe anything paranormal was going on. He believed poltergeist-type activity had to do with the psychogenic nature of the human subconscious. In other words, it was the (totally dysfunctional) family that was responsible. The psychodynamics of the home were extremely negative and unhealthy, and Doris herself had a number of issues, as did her children. Psychotic episodes, delusions, anger, hostility, alcoholism, a disgustingly filthy home twice condemned... and hey, anything can happen. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 17, 2020 #5 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said: Dr. Taff did not believe anything paranormal was going on. He believed poltergeist-type activity had to do with the psychogenic nature of the human subconscious. In other words, it was the (totally dysfunctional) family that was responsible. The psychodynamics of the home were extremely negative and unhealthy, and Doris herself had a number of issues, as did her children. Psychotic episodes, delusions, anger, hostility, alcoholism, a disgustingly filthy home twice condemned... and hey, anything can happen. But the two dozen witnesses described in the OP makes me think an easy explain-away is not sufficient here. Entities might prey on the mentally ill too as they may find more opportunity. I did more looking into Taff and he considers the paranormal to be normal. But he does believe things we colloquially call 'paranormal' occured in this case and other cases: Here is more from the OP article: Taff and Gaynor witnessed phenomena in the new home as well. A vase appeared to be thrown and crashed to the floor. Deep breathing and footsteps appeared on audio recordings approaching the microphone until the mic shut off on its own. Tape on the wall was pulled off the wall by invisible hands, and then the board it was holding flew off and hit Bither in the head. This happened twice within minutes. Edited July 17, 2020 by papageorge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 17, 2020 #6 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Not impressed. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 17, 2020 #7 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, papageorge1 said: I did more looking into Taff and he considers the paranormal to be normal. This is his account of the events, and of the many charlatans who tried to take advantage of them in the years that followed http://barrytaff.net/2011/08/the-real-entity-case-2/ I did not read it all, it was simply too long, and I didn't have the time, but he does not believe that any entities, demons, poltergeists or spirits were involved. Cases like this are dangerous, because they are abused to "verify" supernatural beings to the ignorant. I believed it too, when I saw the movie as a ~10 year old, and it was partly responsible for my later involvement with evangelists. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 17, 2020 #8 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, zep73 said: This is his account of the events, and of the many charlatans who tried to take advantage of them in the years that followed http://barrytaff.net/2011/08/the-real-entity-case-2/ I did not read it all, it was simply too long, and I didn't have the time, but he does not believe that any entities, demons, poltergeists or spirits were involved. Cases like this are dangerous, because they are abused to "verify" supernatural beings to the ignorant. I believed it too, when I saw the movie as a ~10 year old, and it was partly responsible for my later involvement with evangelists. Didn't read it all? You must have missed the first sentence even: Contrary to what many people believe, the case of Doris Bither, that later became the novel and motion picture The Entity, was not, in my professional opinion, the result of spectral rape, .a.k.a. spectrophilia, but a rather disturbingly real poltergeist outbreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 17, 2020 #9 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Didn't read it all? You must have missed the first sentence even: Contrary to what many people believe, the case of Doris Bither, that later became the novel and motion picture The Entity, was not, in my professional opinion, the result of spectral rape, .a.k.a. spectrophilia, but a rather disturbingly real poltergeist outbreak. He does not attribute "poltergeist" activity to any paranormal being(s), but to "involuntarily subconscious" abilities. That's on him. I do not agree that either are possible. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 17, 2020 #10 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, zep73 said: He does not attribute "poltergeist" activity to any paranormal being(s), but to "involuntarily subconscious" abilities. That's on him. I do not agree that either are possible. So then what about the two dozen witnesses in the OP if neither are possible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 17, 2020 #11 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: So then what about the two dozen witnesses in the OP if neither are possible? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestibility 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 17, 2020 #12 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, zep73 said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestibility I can't help but feel that's desperation grasping at straws here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 17, 2020 #13 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, papageorge1 said: I can't help but feel that's desperation grasping at straws here. That's because you have one thing in common with the witnesses: You want to believe. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 17, 2020 #14 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, zep73 said: That's because you have one thing in common with the witnesses: You want to believe. What if you were there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 17, 2020 #15 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: What if you were there? I would then take the following into consideration: - Who's home is this? Who invited us? - Does this setup seem staged? Were we told to be in this part of the room? - What is the general atmosphere and mood of this arrangement? It seems very much like a display of "come witness the invisible monster". And I bet that is exactly what people were expecting. Then just add some cheap effects, and you got yourself a display of the "supernatural". 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 18, 2020 #16 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, zep73 said: I would then take the following into consideration: - Who's home is this? Who invited us? - Does this setup seem staged? Were we told to be in this part of the room? - What is the general atmosphere and mood of this arrangement? It seems very much like a display of "come witness the invisible monster". And I bet that is exactly what people were expecting. Then just add some cheap effects, and you got yourself a display of the "supernatural". I would expect the two dozen and any intelligent person would consider those issues too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 18, 2020 #17 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, papageorge1 said: I can't help but feel that's desperation grasping at straws here. Right. That's desperation grabbing at straws is it? What is your view then? That 24 people can even fit into a bedroom (not a chance in mine) and that all had equal unobstructed views. Not to mention she was a heavy drinker and the alleged activity stopped when she stopped drinking. Yes it's in the same link. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 18, 2020 #18 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, psyche101 said: What is your view then? That 24 people can even fit into a bedroom (not a chance in mine) and that all had equal unobstructed views. I'm not sure if a picture exists or what the details look like. I doubt they would make up a number. Certainly much less would have been fine for being convincing. 49 minutes ago, psyche101 said: Not to mention she was a heavy drinker and the alleged activity stopped when she stopped drinking. Yes it's in the same link. So? Heavy drinking can't produce paranormal phenomena observable to others! Edited July 18, 2020 by papageorge1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 18, 2020 #19 Share Posted July 18, 2020 It's like a tape on loop. "The paranormal is real, you are wrong *click* the paranormal is real, you are wrong *click*" 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted July 18, 2020 #20 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, papageorge1 said: I can't help but feel that's desperation grasping at straws here. You and your CGI pixies is more desperation grasping at straws than the explanation you’re replying to. Can you accept that? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted July 18, 2020 #21 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Timothy said: You and your CGI pixies is more desperation grasping at straws than the explanation you’re replying to. Can you accept that? Stop it. Anyway my comment actually pertained to this thread's topic. I do recall starting with a 50/50 chance of CGI before any input from the bickerers here obsessed with me and not the topics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted July 18, 2020 #22 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, zep73 said: I would then take the following into consideration: - Who's home is this? Who invited us? - Does this setup seem staged? Were we told to be in this part of the room? - What is the general atmosphere and mood of this arrangement? It seems very much like a display of "come witness the invisible monster". And I bet that is exactly what people were expecting. Then just add some cheap effects, and you got yourself a display of the "supernatural". How can you call it cheap effects if you weren't there? Seems is not proof either. Neither is your feeling. Sometimes I think the denialism is because people are terrified it might be true. Same with the possibility of aliens. It would explain a lot of the hostility that happens in these threads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 18, 2020 #23 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Stop it. Anyway my comment actually pertained to this thread's topic. I do recall starting with a 50/50 chance of CGI before any input from the bickerers here obsessed with me and not the topics. Be careful you don't become the cat chasing the red dot, thinking it's a bug (ghost etc.), when it's really just a laser pointer (hoax). Edited July 18, 2020 by zep73 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted July 18, 2020 #24 Share Posted July 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, Timothy said: You and your CGI pixies is more desperation grasping at straws than the explanation you’re replying to. Can you accept that? Do you really have to be that insulting? Seriously? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted July 18, 2020 #25 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: How can you call it cheap effects if you weren't there? Seems is not proof either. Neither is your feeling. Sometimes I think the denialism is because people are terrified it might be true. Same with the possibility of aliens. It would explain a lot of the hostility that happens in these threads. It's a matter of deduction. Either those things exist or they don't. And since there is no evidence, but only countless hoaxes, one can only deduce it does not exist. If single cases stick out, one must also deduce that those are successful hoaxes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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