Doris Bither case

[Timothy]

4 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

What does that have to do with me saying don't shoot down others because of your your lack of experience. 

I didn’t shoot you down. Lol.

Quote where I did. 

You’re really failing here.

[Timothy]

3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Again, again and again, what does that have to do with this topic?

Was just highlighting that your grasping at straws comment is quite relevant to you is all.

[+susieice]

@Piney  I was looking at this thread and I recall another one from about 6-8 yrs ago about this woman and the movie. One of her sons was a member here long, long ago and was quoted in the thread from a previous one. He was a truck driver in Florida then. I tried to find the thread but it could be archived by now. The forum has changed several times since then and I don't recall his name. Do you remember this? I'm pretty sure I remember it was this movie.

Edited July 18, 2020 by susieice

[Hankenhunter]

35 minutes ago, Timothy said:

I didn’t shoot you down. Lol.

Quote where I did. 

You’re really failing here.

I meant Papa, not me. Sorry if I was unclear.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Hankenhunter

[Timothy]

39 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

I meant Papa, not me. Sorry if I was unclear.

Ah okay, well in my message I was just replying to the bit about being interested. 

In regards to shooting people down, I’d more accurately say I was calling him out here.

The shooting down took part in the pixie thread for good reason.

[+susieice]

@Piney I found it. I picked on you because you're a long time member and I thought maybe you'd remember this. It was a thread from 2010 by Sakari. We did a lot of searching into Dr Taff and his staff too. A lot of good links were in here. Unfortunately, some no longer work. Too long ago. Many still do. If you are interested, you should read them. It was a true scientific study.

If you go to Post #33 in this thread, it will link you to the thread where her son posted. Supposedly he was her middle son, Brian. He went by the screen name of breedogg. He was living in Florida and driving a truck. I thought I remembered that. I went into his profile and it's empty now.

Edited July 18, 2020 by susieice

[+susieice]

I found this but, unfortunately, the links to Dr Taff and Dr Gaynor's journal entries in here also do not work any more.

https://barenormality.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/the-entity-case-reviewed/

[Piney]

1 hour ago, susieice said:

@Piney I found it. I picked on you because you're a long time member and I thought maybe you'd remember this. It was a thread from 2010 by Sakari. We did a lot of searching into Dr Taff and his staff too. A lot of good links were in here. Unfortunately, some no longer work. Too long ago. Many still do. If you are interested, you should read them. It was a true scientific study.

I think I was in prison during this thread. 

[XenoFish]

8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

I agree. But the duration, amount, and intensity vary so much in these cases. So it's pretty easy to brush off a mild encounter, it's not so easy with, an intense physical attack.

So I should just blindly believe that I truly evoke cemetery ghost to physically appearance without question. To say yes too random "psychokinetic" events that occurred. Mild wouldn't be a way I'd describe my past.

[psyche101]

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I'm not sure if a picture exists or what the details look like. I doubt they would make up a number. Certainly much less would have been fine for being convincing.

Took me under 30 seconds to find a picture of the house.

 

24 people in one bedroom in that house?

I don't think so. I'd say the quality of evidence here is ridiculously poor. 

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

So? Heavy drinking can't produce paranormal phenomena observable to others! 

And yet that's the only time it appeared.

Obviously it did!

[Piney]

8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

I agree. But the duration, amount, and intensity vary so much in these cases. So it's pretty easy to brush off a mild encounter, it's not so easy with, an intense physical attack.

I've created intense attacks and watched the people re-enforcing each other and make it stronger. In this case you had a group, all with mental issues re-enforcing each other making it stronger. 

Most times people haunt themselves. If Doris wasn't mentally ill and wished it away instead of empowering it. It wouldn't of even went this far. 

[psyche101]

8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

I find it interesting that no one challenged my assertion that absolute denialists won't entertain, or investigate for themselves, the idea of the paranormal because their psyche couldn't handle the shock to their world view.

You've got to get kidding me. What are you, 8 years old or something?

[XenoFish]

8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

I find it interesting that no one challenged my assertion that absolute denialists won't entertain, or investigate for themselves, the idea of the paranormal because their psyche couldn't handle the shock to their world view.

I think those of us who are skeptical ask more questions than the believers. Some of us come from a more metaphysical background. It is when you really start asking questions that you find what you want it to be isn't. 

[+susieice]

I found this from Dr Taff. In it, he names the three doctors from UCLA that took part in the investigation of Doris Bither. The same three we found in 2010. I will try and see if I can find any of the reports he wrote in the science journals but they seem to be offline now. We had them back then.

http://barrytaff.net/2011/08/the-real-entity-case-2/

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, susieice said:

I found this from Dr Taff. In it, he names the three doctors from UCLA that took part in the investigation of Doris Bither. The same three we found in 2010. I will try and see if I can find any of the reports he wrote in the science journals but they seem to be offline now. We had them back then.

http://barrytaff.net/2011/08/the-real-entity-case-2/

Barry Taff is a honest researcher but I think he was "caught up in the moment" in Doris's case and helped re-enforce it.

That "mysterious arc" in the picture he shows off is a camera artifact. 

He also must of lost his biological knowledge for a brief time during his UFO phase because anybody who knows anything about evolution knows the humanoid body shape is a "one off" and would not occur again as a convergence. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

16 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

But the two dozen witnesses described in the OP makes me think an easy explain-away is not sufficient here.

We don't know who those witnesses were, nor do we have any statements from them. So we don't know what they saw, or if indeed they all saw the same thing.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

That "mysterious arc" in the picture he shows off is a camera artifact. 

Supported by (among other things) the fact that the arc does not bend at the wall corner. If it were light, it would have bent.

[papageorge1]

4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Took me under 30 seconds to find a picture of the house.

24 people in one bedroom in that house?

I don't think so. I'd say the quality of evidence here is ridiculously poor. 

 

So, your theory is they would just make up a very high sounding number? Or what? Or perhaps this is just one of many paranormal events but gets more retold because of the witness count as people like to hear there were witnesses? Hmm...

4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

And yet that's the only time it appeared.

Obviously it did!

I see no logical response there to my point: Heavy drinking can't produce paranormal phenomena observable to others!  

 

[papageorge1]

2 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

We don't know who those witnesses were, nor do we have any statements from them. So we don't know what they saw, or if indeed they all saw the same thing.

Perhaps it is more researchable but I am not making this a pet research project unless I get more fired up, LOL. (I did not supply the OP quote about the two dozen witnesses).  I would be willing to bet two dozen Tim Horton donuts that they saw things they can't explain and the debate would get dragged on forever even with research. Sometimes we have to make decisions on our use of time. 

My best judgment from a lifetime of observation and consideration is that this case almost certainly includes paranormal events.

Papameter 2.0 Reading

90% Involved Paranormal Events    10% All lies and hoaxes

Confidence Level: Medium

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by papageorge1

[Kittens Are Jerks]

21 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Perhaps it is more researchable but I am not making this a pet research project unless I get more fired up, LOL. (I did not supply the OP quote about the two dozen witnesses).  I would be willing to bet two dozen Tim Horton donuts that they saw things they can't explain and the debate would get dragged on forever even with research. Sometimes we have to make decisions on our use of time. 

Did you say two dozen Tim Hortons donuts? You're on! 

I'm sure the various witnesses saw things they couldn't explain, but that doesn't necessarily mean that any of those things were paranormal in nature.

There's surprisingly not much available online about this case, but I did find the following (skeptical) analysis of it:

https://barenormality.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/the-entity-case-reviewed/

 

[papageorge1]

12 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Did you say two dozen Tim Hortons donuts? You're on! 

I'm sure the various witnesses saw things they couldn't explain, but that doesn't necessarily mean that any of those things were paranormal in nature.

There's surprisingly not much available online about this case, but I did find the following (skeptical) analysis of it:

https://barenormality.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/the-entity-case-reviewed/

 

I would expect the so-called 'skeptic' side must be out there to cast negative light on any subject that got at least this much publicity. I gave the article a decent look over. The Papameter 2.0 reading above is still my overall appraisal.

I have a bit of a weakness for their Cherry Chip donuts if they still have that kind.

 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

22 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I would expect the so-called 'skeptic' side must be out there to cast negative light on any subject that got at least this much publicity. I gave the article a decent look over. The Papameter 2.0 reading above is still my overall appraisal.

I have a bit of a weakness for their Cherry Chip donuts if they still have that kind.

I haven't seen Cherry Chip donuts here, but then again, not all franchises carry the same flavours. They sound delicious.

I don't think the skeptic side is out to deliberately cast negative light. The main point it makes is, that for such a well publicised case, there is surprisingly little evidence by way of photographs, witness interviews, videos, etc. Even the people who led the investigation did not think there was conclusive evidence of anything paranormal. Instead, they point to the dysfunction and mental illness issues as being behind all the craziness that went on there.

[papageorge1]

53 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

 

I don't think the skeptic side is out to deliberately cast negative light. 

I think they obviously are when their platform is the paranormal doesn’t exist and then see the selective discussion.

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:The main point it makes is, that for such a well publicised case, there is surprisingly little evidence by way of photographs, witness interviews, videos, etc. Even the people who led the investigation did not think there was conclusive evidence of anything paranormal. Instead, they point to the dysfunction and mental illness issues as being behind all the craziness that went on there.

This case occurred before the internet, cell phones and whatnot to spread publicity.

Now I already showed above where the lead investigator Taff claimed STRONG poltergeist activity and now the skeptics washed that down predictably to probably nothing paranormal really happened. 
 

The Papameter considers facts, attitude, prejudices etcetera. The meter knows there’ll be no acceptance of any paranormal claim by the hard-skeptics until if ever they have a paradigm shift.

 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

7 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Now I already showed above where the lead investigator Taff claimed STRONG poltergeist activity and now the skeptics washed that down predictably to probably nothing paranormal really happened. 

Yes, and I showed where Taff claimed he did not believe the poltergeist-type activity to be paranormal in nature, but rather,  a result of the 'psychogenic nature of the human subconscious'. He also stated that there was a possibility Bither's sons were deliberately causing throwing thing around.

[papageorge1]

6 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Yes, and I showed where Taff claimed he did not believe the poltergeist-type activity to be paranormal in nature, but rather,  a result of the 'psychogenic nature of the human subconscious'. He also stated that there was a possibility Bither's sons were deliberately causing throwing thing around.

But the point is this psychogenic whatever he is claiming is the cause he believes for the paranormal activity.  He is certainly saying there is paranormal activity to account for with some theory.