Questions about Covid 19

[psyche101]

33 minutes ago, stereologist said:

When you don't wear a mask and you come to me you are saying **** you to me.

My mask protects you, but you don't give a rats' ass about others and don't ear a mask.

I get it. I get it loud and clear.

If I drive drunk, why should it worry other people? They have working airbags and seatbelts don't they? 

[Humbled Hypocrite83]

29 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

If I drive drunk, why should it worry other people? They have working airbags and seatbelts don't they? 

Lmfao! That is so wrong.

[psyche101]

Just now, Humbled Hypocrite83 said:

Lmfao! That is so wrong.

Same as a mask isn't it? 

[Humbled Hypocrite83]

Your right! no argument there!

[bee]

2 hours ago, stereologist said:

WTF are you rambling about?

A mask protects other people. If I run into you and you are NOT wearing a mask you are saying **** you to me.

Not sure how I can make this simpler.

 

two sides to every story - especially when only a very small % of a small % will get fatal complications ...  (mainly from vulnerable groups like the elderly and those with underlying health problems)

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

30 minutes ago, bee said:

 

two sides to every story - especially when only a very small % of a small % will get fatal complications ...  (mainly from vulnerable groups like the elderly and those with underlying health problems)

 

Yes there are two sides to every story, that is for certain Bee.

This one is for you Bee it clear explain the lack of logic and content of your posts.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Peter B]

On 7/26/2020 at 11:51 AM, joc said:

 

1. Milton Leitenberg does not agree with you and he is an expert in the field having studied it his entire life.  He thinks that most likely the virus escaped in the form of an infected worker who inhaled the airborne virus.  To think that the virus can only be transmitted through coughing or sneezing or 'water droplets' is naive and akin to the Media Think which I have not listened to.  That you do is telling.  It is an airborne virus.  it doesn't need but for you to breathe out to be transmitted.  The idea that you cannot be infected by wearing a mask is absurd.  The idea that you cannot infect someone if you are wearing a mask is also absurd.

He thinks the virus escaped in the form of an infected worker who inhaled the airborne virus: No, he didn't say that. He offered that as a possible explanation at 8:38. Then, at 18:50 he also mentioned a lab worker hypothetically accidentally sticking themselves with a needle. He offered possible explanations as to why we need to consider the labs as a possible source of the virus. He didn't offer specific proof that the labs were the source of the virus, merely that we can't rule this out. As a non-expert in the field, I don't have a problem with that.

To think that the virus can only be transmitted through coughing or sneezing or 'water droplets' is naive...It is an airborne virus: Why is it naive? The possibility that the virus can be transmitted over longer distances than the distance you can transmit particles by coughing and sneezing (by aerosolised particles) is being considered (here for example). Leitenberg offered no proof that the virus is airborne, simply his speculation of a plausible process by which a lab worker could have become infected.

The idea that you cannot be infected by wearing a mask is absurd: Who's saying that?

The idea that you cannot infect someone if you are wearing a mask is also absurd: Who's saying that?

On 7/26/2020 at 11:51 AM, joc said:

The reason why this Media Think idea is perpetrated to begin with is another attempt at diviision.  If you tell people...you aren't protecting yourself, you are protecting others...then  you have a reason to be 'concerned' that someone isn't wearing a mask in Lowe's or Home Depot or Walmart.  It is an attempt at 'shaming' people into wearing masks.  Absurd!  

It's not absurd. What is more absurd is the idea that wearing a mask makes no difference. This article shows the effects of wearing no mask, wearing a thin mask, wearing a thick mask and wearing a surgical mask when sneezing. If a person next to you sneezes then you're much less likely to cop some of the spray if they're wearing a mask.

On 7/26/2020 at 11:51 AM, joc said:

2.  How do you know how much of the virus it takes to infect someone?  you don't...how could you?  It's an illogical argument.

No I don't. But it's not an illogical argument. The more exposure the greater the risk. It's the same whether you're talking about having infected people sneeze on you or your risk of developing lung cancer after smoking.

[Peter B]

On 7/26/2020 at 11:57 AM, joc said:

I'm not questioning the reality of the virus...as I said...it can only be seen with an electron microscope...I am questioning the 'pandemic' because the numbers are vague and pretty much disqualify the entire 'pandemic' version of the virus.  I think the virus is real.  I also think the 'pandemic' has been weaponized by the left and their media cohorts to a large degree.  Why wouldn't it be?  They weaponize everything...they are not to be trusted...which is why I don't listen to them.

Please forgive my confusion. The thing is, in your first post you were suggesting the CIA might be responsible. Then a few posts later you were suggesting the Chinese might be responsible.

As for information about the pandemic itself, you don't need to rely on "the left and their media cohorts". You can quite easily find reliable information on government and academic websites.

As for disparaging The Left, it's been explained to you a couple of times already that countries which have dealt with the virus well and those which have dealt with the virus badly come from all parts of the political spectrum. Mexico, Canada and Sweden all have progressive governments and all have had bad experiences with the virus. Here in Australia the state of Victoria has been a virus hotspot for the last month, and it has a progressive government. On the other hand, Australia's federal government is conservative, and Australia as a whole has done a pretty good job of keeping the virus under control. Please understand this is not a political thing.

[Candor]

27 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes there are two sides to every story, that is for certain Bee.

This one is for you Bee it clear explain the lack of logic and content of your posts.

I wonder who's unaware here...

[psyche101]

59 minutes ago, bee said:

 

two sides to every story - especially when only a very small % of a small % will get fatal complications ...  (mainly from vulnerable groups like the elderly and those with underlying health problems)

 

 

 

So you're good if I drink and drive too

 

You wouldn't want to force me not to surely.

[Peter B]

55 minutes ago, bee said:

 

two sides to every story - especially when only a very small % of a small % will get fatal complications ...  (mainly from vulnerable groups like the elderly and those with underlying health problems)

 

A what? A very small % of a small %?

Current estimates are that the infection fatality rate is around 0.65%. If that figure is accurate that means ~45 million deaths once it's infected everyone on Earth. And that's assuming it continues to infect people at a steady rate. When infection rates climb then hospitals become overwhelmed and run out of ventilators. At that point people die who might have lived if there were enough ventilators. That could easily cause the IFR to rise by a factor of five (based on the rough proportion of patients requiring ventilators who survive to those who die).

[psyche101]

3 minutes ago, Peter B said:

A what? A very small % of a small %?

Current estimates are that the infection fatality rate is around 0.65%. If that figure is accurate that means ~45 million deaths once it's infected everyone on Earth. And that's assuming it continues to infect people at a steady rate. When infection rates climb then hospitals become overwhelmed and run out of ventilators. At that point people die who might have lived if there were enough ventilators. That could easily cause the IFR to rise by a factor of five (based on the rough proportion of patients requiring ventilators who survive to those who die).

Hey

She is not one of them, why should she care about the health of others?????

[bee]

 

we have to keep all this in perspective and not get carried away with fear mongering  and virtue signalling...

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

40 minutes ago, Candor said:

I wonder who's unaware here...

That is a very good question, time will certainly make that clear.

[Peter B]

12 minutes ago, bee said:

 

we have to keep all this in perspective and not get carried away with fear mongering  and virtue signalling...

 

I don't have a problem with the concept that humans are terrible at understanding threats, and that we often over-react to trivial threats.

But I also don't think a disease which has so far killed over 600,000 people in < 6 months is trivial. The scale of the pandemic in countries like Brazil and Mexico shows what can happen in countries which can't provide First World health care to their entire populations.

[psyche101]

22 minutes ago, bee said:

 

we have to keep all this in perspective and not get carried away with fear mongering  and virtue signalling...

 

How's the perspective in Italy? 

How many died there again?

[Grim Reaper 6]

18 minutes ago, bee said:

 

we have to keep all this in perspective and not get carried away with fear mongering  and virtue signalling...

 

It is clearly in perspective, it actually mind over matter, I don't mind and your comments don't matter. What you call fear others refer to as common sense, what you call virtue signaling I call a complete lack of empathy for others. So save your illogical notions for thosecwho care, because few follow your beliefs or lack of respect for others.

[Peter B]

11 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

How's the perspective in Italy? 

How many died there again?

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners

Inside Italy's COVID War is sobering viewing, recorded back in March 2020 at the time of the first wave. Particularly the bit starting around 2:20 showing the hospital staff ringing around the wards of the hospital looking for a bed for a patient, and the bit at 3:45 when a doctor talks about whether to admit the 35 year old patient or the 85 year old patient.

[RoofGardener]

5 hours ago, stereologist said:

Are you as clueless as you suggest you are? The answer seems to be a loud and resounding YES

You are VERY rude, as well as being factually incorrect. 

In per-capita terms, the USA is only 9th in the world for deaths . 

Belgium	9,812	11.42	859.04
United Kingdom	45,554	66.49	685.14
Spain	28,429	46.72	608.45
Italy	35,092	60.43	580.69
Sweden	5,676	10.18	557.39
Peru	17,654	31.99	551.87
Chile	8,838	18.73	471.88
France	30,089	66.99	449.18
USA	144,103	327.17	440.46
Brazil	84,082	209.47	401.4

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

i havn't been able to find a simple table of infections per capita, but - using two random datapoints on THIS website - https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus - it appears that the INFECTION rate in the USA is roughly half that of Brazil, per capita. 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Actually... that might be daily cases rather than overall cases ? 

All of the data I have been able to gleam on the internet shows that - per capita - the USA is NOT the country with either the highest infection rate, or the highest death rate. 

It IS the country that does the highest number of tests per capita (with the exception of Russia). 

So take that "clueless" comment back ! 

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Peter B said:

Please understand this is not a political thing.

You need to understand...with the Left...everything...is a political thing!

 

Rahm Emanuel, President Obama’s chief of staff said in November, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. It provides the opportunity to do things that were not possible to do before.”

[+joc]

5 hours ago, Peter B said:

Leitenberg offered no proof that the virus is airborne, simply his speculation of a plausible process by which a lab worker could have become infected.

That's what I said  in a paraphrased version of my quote.  His speculation...his 'thinking'.  Never said he offered proof. 

[+joc]

8 hours ago, stereologist said:

When you don't wear a mask and you come to me you are saying **** you to me.

My mask protects you, but you don't give a rats' ass about others and don't ear a mask.

I get it. I get it loud and clear.

R i g h t.....exactly what I said....You are buying the media portrayal of Why we should all wear masks.  You just shamed me for not wearing a mask.  You have bought hook line and sinker the misinformation that a mask protects you from me...it's illogical and not true.  It's how they 'get' everyone to where a mask.  Why do they want everyone to wear a mask?  Because possibly they believe it will stop or slow the pandemic.  Why did eveyone boil water during the Spanish Flu Pandemic?  Because they all believed (were told) to do so by the government because the government and medical experts had concluded that the virus was being passed on by bad water.

I'm not questioning your integrity or intellect...I'm questioning the whole pandemic thing.  

[+joc]

5 hours ago, Peter B said:

No I don't.

Thank you!  What is it...one virus ....100 viruses...20 million viruses....the fact is (because numbers do not lie) if you were not wearing a mask and inhaled someone's virus..you are infected...but they are wearing a mask so it kept in 60% of the virus...they still exhaled 40%.  You have on a mask and inhale 40% of their 40%.  Are you any less infected??

[Peter B]

25 minutes ago, joc said:

You need to understand...with the Left...everything...is a political thing!

 

Rahm Emanuel, President Obama’s chief of staff said in November, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. It provides the opportunity to do things that were not possible to do before.”

And on the right?

[Peter B]

24 minutes ago, joc said:

That's what I said  in a paraphrased version of my quote.  His speculation...his 'thinking'.  Never said he offered proof. 

Fair enough, sorry, I misread.

But in that case, why not go to what the experts are saying about how they understand the disease is spread? Definitely by droplets from coughing and sneezing, probably indirectly from droplets landing on hard surfaces later touched, possibly from droplets from speaking, possibly as an aerosol.