On not needing God to be good

[eight bits]

@Will do

Prob'ly just me, but I found all that a bit vague.

These experiences you mention seem to be the core of it. Are these private individual experiences, or some kind of group, collective or simultaneously shared experience?

Either way, is there any orgnaization to it? Is there a social component?

Stay with your own words, though, OK?

[Stubbly_Dooright]

5 hours ago, Will do said:

17 hours ago, eight bits said:

tell what you think true religion is.

 

Asking what in religion is actually true or not, is not the same as asking what true religion is.

Having sufficient evidence that something specifically in religion is true, is not what true religion is.

Knowing what isn't false in religion isn't what true religion is.

Organized religion, is not what true religion is.

Must you spend half your reply saying what it's not?!?! Seriously!?!?  

Getting to the point, and answer straight away will get others to understand you. No wonder you're causing confusion.  

Quote

Rather than anything specifically in religion being true; true religion is more about those experiences that tells a person something like; no, everything in religion isn't false.

True religion is what many people in the world are engaged in, know exists, but never bother to define. Because doing that is not doing it.

True religion is the search for true religion.

I decided to some research. Googling it, interestingly, when putting 'true religion' in the search bar, the first page of hits is to a clothing line.

Anyhow, next page has links, including the one I found Found on this site: . So, upon reading it, I come across this. 

Quote

It is firstly about re-connection to ourselves, to our true selves, to the inner-most aspect of our being and through this reconnection we are bound to reconnect to the Divine, to God within.

Is this what you are talking about true religion?!?! If it is, then there is something I really don't think you can get across in an objective way. (and that is despite it being non-objective to prove it's not 'true'.) Anyhow, if it's about within yourselves, hell!, then you have different 'true religions' there will be differences with each individual personality. 

I mean, ****, that's a big part of my unique belief right there! 

And, you know how I consider my belief subjective and not to be pushed onto others, and myself considering everyone else's beliefs!?!? Right?! Something that cannot be proven objectively to anyone else but me! 

My result to this, it can't be true, if it's different with each person. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

@Will do

Prob'ly just me, but I found all that a bit vague.

Nope! It's not just you. 

Quote

These experiences you mention seem to be the core of it. Are these private individual experiences, or some kind of group, collective or simultaneously shared experience?

Either way, is there any orgnaization to it? Is there a social component?

Stay with your own words, though, OK?

I think you hit the nail on the head there with those questions. Is there an organization?! Can there be? Different personalities within the individual 'true religions' can probably not mesh so well with the next 'true religions' and so on and so on and so on...........................

[+Sherapy]

10 hours ago, lightly said:

I don't quite understand what is meant by. . true religion  . .or  untrue religion. ?     Since religions are beliefs . . (and practices based on beliefs) . .   thier truth,or untruth, is in the eye of the beholder?    

That's why me and God don't need religion    ..kiddin.   sorta.

Love this post. Brilliantly put. 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Must you spend half your reply saying what it's not?!?! Seriously!?!?  

Getting to the point, and answer straight away will get others to understand you. No wonder you're causing confusion.  

I decided to some research. Googling it, interestingly, when putting 'true religion' in the search bar, the first page of hits is to a clothing line.

Anyhow, next page has links, including the one I found Found on this site: . So, upon reading it, I come across this. 

Is this what you are talking about true religion?!?! If it is, then there is something I really don't think you can get across in an objective way. (and that is despite it being non-objective to prove it's not 'true'.) Anyhow, if it's about within yourselves, hell!, then you have different 'true religions' there will be differences with each individual personality. 

I mean, ****, that's a big part of my unique belief right there! 

And, you know how I consider my belief subjective and not to be pushed onto others, and myself considering everyone else's beliefs!?!? Right?! Something that cannot be proven objectively to anyone else but me! 

My result to this, it can't be true, if it's different with each person. 

Ha ha I was gonna say True Religion is a high end clothing line, you got there first. 

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

When it comes to religion, truth is a theosophical abstraction, predicated by the particular insights of the person promoting his brand of it. As they say, one man's drink is another man's poison.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

17 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Must you spend half your reply saying what it's not?!?! Seriously!?!?  

Getting to the point, and answer straight away will get others to understand you. No wonder you're causing confusion.  

I decided to some research. Googling it, interestingly, when putting 'true religion' in the search bar, the first page of hits is to a clothing line.

Anyhow, next page has links, including the one I found Found on this site: . So, upon reading it, I come across this. 

Is this what you are talking about true religion?!?! If it is, then there is something I really don't think you can get across in an objective way. (and that is despite it being non-objective to prove it's not 'true'.) Anyhow, if it's about within yourselves, hell!, then you have different 'true religions' there will be differences with each individual personality. 

I mean, ****, that's a big part of my unique belief right there! 

And, you know how I consider my belief subjective and not to be pushed onto others, and myself considering everyone else's beliefs!?!? Right?! Something that cannot be proven objectively to anyone else but me! 

My result to this, it can't be true, if it's different with each person. 

Ha ha I was gonna say True Religion is a high end clothing line, you got there first. 

 

    

[+DieChecker]

On 7/31/2020 at 10:16 PM, Free99 said:

What really turns my stomach is people who go their whole life being complete idiots. They lie, cheat, steal and hoe around then get old and become religious nuts. No you don’t need anyone to be a good person we have free will. What you do with it is up to you. 

What is worse, the person who is evil their entire life, and repents at the end? Or, the person who is evil till the dag they die?

I'd rather people repent, even if just before they die, to try to make at least a few things right.

If youre talking the CRAZY religious people... Then, yeah, they just crazy...

Edited August 4, 2020 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

23 hours ago, eight bits said:

I'm thinking of those religious organizations - not just Catholics - which ended up shielding sexual predators and other criminals (including workaday crimes like bank fraud, money laundering and tax evasion). The religions in question didn't teach criminality, but they did end up enabling it.

Just a quick comment. Even though the Catholic Church covered up many crimes... sexual crimes... That should not reflect in those who attended some oedo priests church. They were ignorant entirely.

Now, if the knowledge of said crimes by a specific priest becomes public, and no one condemns him. Then, yeah, they all are responsible at that point.

Same with the big wheeling Televangelists who stole, and cheated, and lied... Can you really hold the people being lied to as responsible for those actions?

Just saying the Leadership isnt always directly representative/equivalent to the Religion.

Edited August 4, 2020 by DieChecker

[Will Due]

12 hours ago, eight bits said:

These experiences you mention seem to be the core of it.

 

Yes but in my opinion, a person may or may not even be consciously aware of how these experiences are the core experiences of true religion.

 

 

12 hours ago, eight bits said:

Are these private individual experiences, or some kind of group, collective or simultaneously shared experience?

 

They are individually unique experiences that are similar in nature.

 

 

12 hours ago, eight bits said:

is there any orgnaization to it?

 

Not other than being based on God's indwelling.

 

 

12 hours ago, eight bits said:

Is there a social component?

 

Yes. The result of true religion is unity, the brotherhood of man.
 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Will do

[Stubbly_Dooright]

25 minutes ago, Will do said:

13 hours ago, eight bits said:

Is there a social component?

 

Yes. The result of true religion is unity, the brotherhood of man.
 

Where are there examples that proves this? Because, it doesn’t make sense. ‘Brotherhood’ can change meaning. There’s no ‘group gatherings’ that present true understanding. 
Again, I did some research and on this Page found something that makes sense. 
 

Quote

The only truth which can be really trusted is objective truths, but these take a lot of work to find. We are constantly learning, and the pursuit of knowledge is vital to understand the line between what we believe to be true and what is fundamentally true.

Give this page a looksy.  How can something be true, if it’s not objective? Fundamentally true can change. 
 I believe, true anything is consistent. Individual ‘true religion’ does not sound like it is. 
You can’t expect everyone to adhere to it , if it changes person to person. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Stubbly_Dooright

[SHaYap]

Perpetuating the myth with lies... 

Kinda has a nice ring on it... 

~

[eight bits]

OK, Will, but how should I reconcile:

2 hours ago, Will do said:

[what organization of true religion there is] being based on God's indwelling.

with

2 hours ago, Will do said:

Yes. The result of true religion is unity, the brotherhood of man.

when

(1) many people seem to arrive at a "human family" persepective as a guide to ethics and morality without any sense of God, much less an "indwelling" God

and

(2) many people who subscribe to a religion that emphasizes an indwelling God (e.g. Pauline Christianity) seem to avoid seeing other people as their brothers and sisters in any useful way?

 

 

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

OK, Will, but how should I reconcile:

with

when

(1) many people seem to arrive at a "human family" persepective as a guide to ethics and morality without any sense of God, much less an "indwelling" God

and

(2) many people who subscribe to a religion that emphasizes an indwelling God (e.g. Pauline Christianity) seem to avoid seeing other people as their brothers and sisters in any useful way?

 

Well my brother, that would be entirely up to you.

 

 

[+DieChecker]

5 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Where are there examples that proves this? Because, it doesn’t make sense. ‘Brotherhood’ can change meaning. There’s no ‘group gatherings’ that present true understanding. 
Again, I did some research and on this Page found something that makes sense. 
 

Give this page a looksy.  How can something be true, if it’s not objective? Fundamentally true can change. 
 I believe, true anything is consistent. Individual ‘true religion’ does not sound like it is. 
You can’t expect everyone to adhere to it , if it changes person to person. 

Id tend to agree. Religious truth is a shared truth. But, it is a subjective truth.

[eight bits]

8 hours ago, Will do said:

Well my brother, that would be entirely up to you.

C'mon, Will; I'm trying to sustain a conversation here.

Help me out, please.

[Will Due]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

C'mon, Will; I'm trying to sustain a conversation here.

Help me out, please.

 

The reason I said it was up to you, how to reconcile those things you delineated earlier, is simply because like everyone, you too are indwelt by God. Eventhough you may not be aware of it, you already are and you've already been involved with true religion. But depending on the degree of co-operation, either less or more good results from it.

In my opinion in this case for example, with perhaps greater involvement, it would have likely been that you wouldn't have even needed to ask somebody how to reconcile those things you mentioned. Because due to the assistance and the co-operating influence of recognizing more, God's indwelling (true religion) you probably would have already been aware of that knowledge.

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

 

[eight bits]

10 hours ago, Will do said:

Eventhough you may not be aware of it, you already are and you've already been involved with true religion.

How could I have been involved with something of cosmic significance, and yet never been aware of it?

Is there something I should be looking for in my biography? Or is it supposed to be mysterious?

If the latter, then why are you so confident that you've figured it out?

[Stubbly_Dooright]

11 hours ago, Will do said:

14 hours ago, eight bits said:

C'mon, Will; I'm trying to sustain a conversation here.

Help me out, please.

 

The reason I said it was up to you, how to reconcile those things you delineated earlier, is simply because like everyone, you too are indwelt by God. Eventhough you may not be aware of it, you already are and you've already been involved with true religion. But depending on the degree of co-operation, either less or more good results from it.

In my opinion in this case for example, with perhaps greater involvement, it would have likely been that you wouldn't have even needed to ask somebody how to reconcile those things you mentioned. Because due to the assistance and the co-operating influence of recognizing more, God's indwelling (true religion) you probably would have already been aware of that knowledge.

Seriously! I wish you would stop making accusations about other people you can’t prove! Especially, when it is accusations in the spiritual manner, subjective, and individualistic. 8bits pretty much hit the nail on the head in his reply to you.

And besides, I believe 8bits was looking  for an answer to your statements, not advice especially spiritually.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Stubbly_Dooright

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

How could I have been involved with something of cosmic significance, and yet never been aware of it?

Is there something I should be looking for in my biography? Or is it supposed to be mysterious?

If the latter, then why are you so confident that you've figured it out?

You are aware of it--it's just that you aren't aware that you are aware. In fact, it's a miracle you are aware of your unawareness. A few jumbled blocks of DNA and you might have been born a hedgehog, or even Will. You must come to terms with the fact that there are facts you are unaware of. Don't worry, though and be aware you are only one dog-eared paperback away from complete awareness. KLAATU BARADA NIKTO.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Hammerclaw

[Stubbly_Dooright]

14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

How could I have been involved with something of cosmic significance, and yet never been aware of it?

Is there something I should be looking for in my biography? Or is it supposed to be mysterious?

If the latter, then why are you so confident that you've figured it out?

You are aware of it--it's just that you aren't aware that you are aware. In fact, it's a miracle you are aware of your unawareness. A few jumbled blocks of DNA and you might have been born a hedgehog, or even Will. You must come to terms with the fact that there are facts you are unaware of. Don't worry, though and be aware you are only one dog-eared paperback away from complete awareness. KLAATU BARADA NIKTO.

Please, be humorously sarcastic! Pretty pretty please!!

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Please, be humorously sarcastic! Pretty pretty please!!

Embrace awareness. Enquiring minds want you to know.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Hammerclaw

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

How could I have been involved with something of cosmic significance, and yet never been aware of it?

 

You're aware of it now. 

 

 

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Is there something I should be looking for in my biography?

 

Possibly 

 

 

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Or is it supposed to be mysterious?

 

Probably

 

 

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

If the latter, then why are you so confident that you've figured it out?

 

At the time, it seemed like a good idea. 

 

 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

45 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

52 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Please, be humorously sarcastic! Pretty pretty please!!

Embrace awareness.

What makes you think I haven’t?!?!?!

Quote

Enquiring minds want you to know.

I am the only person allowed to want me to know something.