Question(s) about prayer.

[Dejarma]

23 hours ago, and then said:

I do believe in God and I don't believe He would refuse to hear the prayers of others just because you don't believe. 

if god is real then hearing a prayer means what? is it the same as helping? ya know when someone prays to god to save their 4 year old daughter  who's dying of leukemia.. i don't get it

[Stubbly_Dooright]

4 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If they are decent caring people, they better not. Sorry, that I am blunt.

just makes me with blinders on Theists ever got into a conversation with just actually asking question and not pushing with a atheist? I really think they would learn a lot of things, they don’t wanna hear but is the truth. Plus, how other people feel that don’t think like they do. 
because, it still doesn’t make sense.

It doesn't really make sense why some act like that.  I think it's like those preachers who say "God" is punishing the entire country because some people have premarital sex.

With me, I feel I believe in Karma a bit. Even if it's a humorous thought of someone walking into a store and claims out loud how quiet it is, five minutes later, there's a rush and one wonders where all the customer come from. *shrugs*  

Anyways, even with my outlook on Karma and making loud claims in stores, I still know, it's not a sure fire thing. So, it does get me about some religious who get all panicky when not everyone obeys their belief and believe they don't get what they want, because of other's behaviors. I feel, that's a bit unintelligent and selfish to begin with. 

You know, I have always felt, that mainly that religions are at their cores, teaching people to be good and selfless to each other. Yet, it seems, like it's making it's followers more self-centered. It seems they are failing their belief or their belief failed them. 

You know, with my unique belief, it's pretty much a subjective and quiet thing, and I feel it tells me to care and be there for those, who need what they need. If you are doing what you are doing, caring and thinking what you are already feeling, why mess with that? I just think, the energy involved, the positive energy, is what helps. Why should someone tell you how to be who you are, when they don't know how you consider other's outlooks? They should probably consider your's. 

[jmccr8]

Hi GoldenWolf

It’s not a pray but best wishes for you and your mom

jmccr8

[R.A.L.sees]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:48 PM, GoldenWolf said:

I have family members who like to say things like "Now would be a good time to believe in a higher power and pray".  I wonder if she does die, if they would try to use that to heap guilt onto me.

First, there will always be someone who wants you to feel guilty for not being like them.  Please don't.  I believe I would pray for your mom to be comfortable.  Maybe that's all we can ask for at this time, you know what I mean.  For prayer warriors, it is always best to know how to pray specifically, and to enter that prayer with the one who may be requesting it, together with the one prayer.  What could be a better prayer.  Personally, your unbelief in a higher power or god, will not cause your mom to die, however, the simple prayer:

that we could al agree on.  I will pray that prayer for your mom,if you don't mind.  I will pray that you will find peace in that prayer.  You don't have to close your eyes to pray.  OK

[simplybill]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:35 PM, GoldenWolf said:

I have family members telling me I should pray.

It’s been my experience that my first real prayer was the beginning of a long conversation. Before that, like many people, I thought of prayer as the debit card I used to withdraw a special favor from the God ATM. Afterwards, it was as though Tony the Tiger stepped off the cereal box and found himself in a real-life rain forest. It’s often said that faith is nothing more than a crutch for weak people, but for me it was more like finding a pocket of air in a vacuum. 

[GoldenWolf]

7 minutes ago, simplybill said:

It’s been my experience that my first real prayer was the beginning of a long conversation. Before that, like many people, I thought of prayer as the debit card I used to withdraw a special favor from the God ATM. Afterwards, it was as though Tony the Tiger stepped off the cereal box and found himself in a real-life rain forest. It’s often said that faith is nothing more than a crutch for weak people, but for me it was more like finding a pocket of air in a vacuum. 

I'll put my hope/faith in ethics that I find to be more about the good of not just me, but of mankind.  I don't and will not embrace masters.

[XenoFish]

Hope for the best, expect the worse. Prepare for both.

That's about all I can say other than what I've wrote earlier in the thread. 

[+Sherapy]

On 7/23/2020 at 2:10 PM, and then said:

I think that a prayer earnestly offered for a loved one, even if the person praying did not actually know for sure if they believed, absolutely would be of benefit both to the one making the request and the one they wanted to be helped.  I'm sure you guys who have made a study of the psychology of faith and who can explain why prayer helps even when there is no God, would understand what I'm about to share.

When I realized I was an alcoholic and decided to try AA, I had been a believer for many years and prayed semi-regularly.  The most powerful lesson I ever learned about prayer, though, came in AA.  My sponsor told me that resentments that I held onto would kill me and if I really wanted to get past that I had to pray for the one I resented.  To ask for that person that they receive everything I would desire for myself to be happy.  Prosperity, health, wisdom, peace... you name it.  Here's the thing though - I had to do it EVERY DAY for 30 days.  I was told that by the time those 30 days were finished, I would actually MEAN what I was asking for.  I would actually desire those things for that person.  And he was right.  That may seem like reprogramming oneself or maybe there's another term for it but to really change from hating and wanting nothing so much as revenge against a person who has done you wrong, to having peace within oneself when thinking of them and actually wanting them to prosper, is a miracle as far as I'm concerned.

It is using the brains plasticity to deal with and adapt to a mindset cultivating empathy and this helped you let go of the resentment. This is the basis of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or the role of an addiction specialist. Holding onto resentment prevents empathy and in your case sounds like it caused issues for you. Good for you and your sponsor for finding a mindset that vibes for you and that you took such an active role in your healing. I enjoyed reading your post, what a wonderful story to illustrate the power and effectiveness of empathy. As humans we can imprison ourselves with our resentments. It is always a good thing to have ideas/ways to push thru and let go. I allow myself 48 hours in resentment mode if it is warranted then I let go and move on. I do pick my personal battles. Lol

Edited July 27, 2020 by Sherapy

[quiXilver]

Dear God.

 

I know you have created the entire universe and have it running according to your Divine Plan which works in mysterious ways.

I know this because adults told me so when I was a kid and it's written in an old book from the desert.

I know everything happens according to your will... so...

 

Just this once, do you think you could alter your Will and tweak The Divine Plan for me to get what I want in this fleeting moment here on earth?  Thanks

 

Sincerely,

Moist Ape

 

Wouldn't be much of a Divine Plan if any moist ape who can think words and has desires can come along and wish for something and alter that plan...

[lightly]

Best hopes and wishes for your mom and you GoldenWolf.

I told my elder cousin Floyd, (a Catholic) that " I know people pray for me...and, I think it helps".  He said, "it can".

dr. said "a positive attitude is very important !"   I guess my point is,   the fact that I know people pray for me helps me keep positive .    The  Lord  works in mysterious ways? 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by lightly

[R.A.L.sees]

On 7/23/2020 at 4:21 PM, GoldenWolf said:

My mother tested positive for COVID-19 yesterday, she already had only 20% lung capacity.  I'm not after pity, I'm just wondering about the morality of prayer and god

Question: Does lack of prayer from an atheist annul prayers from many believers?  If so, how is that justified?

May I address your question please.  I have been running  your question for 24 hours and if I might add to my answer.  As an atheist can you see the power of something greater than yourself.  Do you ever just get a little universal smile when you wake up with a song in your head, the morning is going just wonderfully, (what ever you consider a really good morning) and wonder who to thank.  Have you ever won a raffle ticket or shouted Bingo or win a really good hand at the table.  You with me, even because you are an atheist, doesnt mean you don't win sometimes too.  And can we agree that feels kinda good.  Your lack of prayer is why us believers can pray for you.  We pray for those who need prayer.  I pray in faith that my prayer will be heard. Others will pray that their prayers will be prayers for you.  We can only guess, but maybe just maybe reaching out to those who you know will pray for you will help you through.  Thank you Golden Wolf for sharing your heart and questions with us.  It took guts and love for someone else to ask. Peace

[XenoFish]

24 minutes ago, R.A.L.sees said:

As an atheist can you see the power of something greater than yourself. 

It's called hope. No deity required. 

 

[GoldenWolf]

37 minutes ago, R.A.L.sees said:

May I address your question please.  I have been running  your question for 24 hours and if I might add to my answer.  As an atheist can you see the power of something greater than yourself.

A decade of physical abuse from a raging alcoholic uncle while growing up, having my hair ripped out of my head midair by my father, extreme social alienation during school, unable to get a job due to having essential tremors, having to compete with a married cop over a single woman.... And you say "power greater than yourself".

[R.A.L.sees]

59 minutes ago, GoldenWolf said:

A decade of physical abuse from a raging alcoholic uncle while growing up, having my hair ripped out of my head midair by my father, extreme social alienation during school, unable to get a job due to having essential tremors, having to compete with a married cop over a single woman.... And you say "power greater than yourself".

Whoa.  I hear you.  When stuff just keeps coming at you and those memories just won't go away there is something about trying to find peace in something bigger.  We don't understand why all this ugly stuff continues.  But, BUT, only to my own witness, When it just keeps coming and there is no place to be safe and there is nothing to hold on to, I have found that looking up.  No not that way...If you can just go out, and look up.  Maybe, you will find a star to call on.  Venus is really bright and always brings me to her attention in the Southern night early morning sky.  There is just something comforting about knowing there is still something out there that makes me smile.  Unknown, can't touch it, can even tell you how far it is.  But, there it is. Spectacular site.  You have an even personal greater power within yourself.  You can take your power back.  DANG, they have held you captive for too long.  NO MORE!!! 

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

A decade of physical abuse from a raging alcoholic uncle while growing up, having my hair ripped out of my head midair by my father, extreme social alienation during school, unable to get a job due to having essential tremors, having to compete with a married cop over a single woman.... And you say "power greater than yourself".

Might not amount to much, but you have my deepest sympathies.

[GoldenWolf]

57 minutes ago, R.A.L.sees said:

Whoa.  I hear you.  When stuff just keeps coming at you and those memories just won't go away there is something about trying to find peace in something bigger.  We don't understand why all this ugly stuff continues.  But, BUT, only to my own witness, When it just keeps coming and there is no place to be safe and there is nothing to hold on to, I have found that looking up.  No not that way...If you can just go out, and look up.  Maybe, you will find a star to call on.  Venus is really bright and always brings me to her attention in the Southern night early morning sky.  There is just something comforting about knowing there is still something out there that makes me smile.  Unknown, can't touch it, can even tell you how far it is.  But, there it is. Spectacular site.  You have an even personal greater power within yourself.  You can take your power back.  DANG, they have held you captive for too long.  NO MORE!!! 

The thing is, my power is my power, it doesn't derive from someone else or a book.  God or Satan.  i don't do masters (or higher powers as some want to call it) period, and the thought it of it makes me want to puke.

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, lightly said:

Best hopes and wishes for your mom and you GoldenWolf.

I told my elder cousin Floyd, (a Catholic) that " I know people pray for me...and, I think it helps".  He said, "it can".

dr. said "a positive attitude is very important !"   I guess my point is,   the fact that I know people pray for me helps me keep positive .    The  Lord  works in mysterious ways? 

 

I llove this, what a great use of/for prayer. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

A decade of physical abuse from a raging alcoholic uncle while growing up, having my hair ripped out of my head midair by my father, extreme social alienation during school, unable to get a job due to having essential tremors, having to compete with a married cop over a single woman.... And you say "power greater than yourself".

Heart breaking to read this, I am so sorry you went through this GW. 

[lightly]

11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I llove this, what a great use of/for prayer. 

Thanks Sheri  , ya, I guess mainly it makes me know that I am loved....that always helps Everything 

[lightly]

12 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Might not amount to much, but you have my deepest sympathies.

Mine too...and I think our deepest sympathies do amount to much. 

[Jujo-jo]

On 7/23/2020 at 4:21 PM, GoldenWolf said:

My mother tested positive for COVID-19 yesterday, she already had only 20% lung capacity.  I'm not after pity, I'm just wondering about the morality of prayer and god

Question: Does lack of prayer from an atheist annul prayers from many believers?  If so, how is that justified?

Sorry to hear that, I have and will continue to pray for her but even death is God's way and will. 

(Most things in life are not fair but mostly, most people feel this way because they're not getting their way to or they may be in very hard and challenging times.)

I find your question interesting coming from an atheist, 50% of my family are atheists, I am not prejudice! But if you are a true 100% atheists then I find it interesting that you would ask the question to begin with.

But prayer is pray no matter what you believe and God will recognize and hear it.

Playing both sides of the fence can be an unstable seat, I've been there, done that, sooner or later you fall one way or the other, lifes challenges and events have a way of setting the final fall of direction.

Best wishes to you and your family.

[Jujo-jo]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:48 PM, GoldenWolf said:

I have family members who like to say things like "Now would be a good time to believe in a higher power and pray".  I wonder if she does die, if they would try to use that to heap guilt onto me.

If they do then they'd better look in the mirror and reevaluate their own beilefs!

 

[Mr Walker]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:04 AM, GoldenWolf said:

I meant for this to be a question for theists, I forgot it in the title, my bad.  I got it right on Twitter.

IMO no.  Failure by some to pray doesn't negate the prayers of others. 

I am very sorry to hear about your mother and wish her and you the best .

Prayer is powerful for many reasons.  It can serve many different roles and purposes.

I would never pray for a person without getting specific permission from  them and or their loved ones.

i wouldn't advise "faking"  prayer either. To be at all effective it must be sincere.

My mum was an atheist and died slowly(  and fighting death for weeks ) of pneumonia in hospital, after breaking her hip. I comforted her by being with her and getting her to tell me stories of happy times from her long life.  For her that was more effective than a prayer would have been.     She feared death, but even more she feared dying alone. 

[Mr Walker]

On 7/25/2020 at 5:42 AM, Dejarma said:

if god is real then hearing a prayer means what? is it the same as helping? ya know when someone prays to god to save their 4 year old daughter  who's dying of leukemia.. i don't get it

Without meaning to offend, it is the fact that you don't get it, which prevents you from getting it 

possibility a

The prayers do nothing but keep the parents hopeful and less afraid, but the child dies  The prayers have then served a useful purpose, even if not the one intended . 

The y may also attach to a belief that the parents will see the child again in another life, giving a more permanent t sense of hope 

possibility b The child has a miraculous recovery (This could even be natural, and not divine intervention) 

The prayers still served the purpose of comfort, and reduction of fear /increasing hope .

If prayers are wanted, and even asked for,  then they are always a way of offering help.

You are giving another person something they need and want

  The y should not be the only help offered, but they can be useful and powerful tools. 

On the  other hand your understandable disbelief is genuine and thus must be respected 

It would be wrong to ask you to pray and wrong for you to do so.

  You have to find ways acceptable to you, to strengthen/comfort your mother ( and yourself)  in this time 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:54 AM, Mr Walker said:

IMO no.  Failure by some to pray doesn't negate the prayers of others. 

I am very sorry to hear about your mother and wish her and you the best .

Prayer is powerful for many reasons.  It can serve many different roles and purposes.

I would never pray for a person without getting specific permission from  them and or their loved ones.

i wouldn't advise "faking"  prayer either. To be at all effective it must be sincere.

My mum was an atheist and died slowly(  and fighting death for weeks ) of pneumonia in hospital, after breaking her hip. I comforted her by being with her and getting her to tell me stories of happy times from her long life.  For her that was more effective than a prayer would have been.     She feared death, but even more she feared dying alone. 

An interesting aside, as a caregiver, including my Hospice journey’s. I am so surprised at how often a person who is terminal prefers to die solo or with caregivers only. My grandmother died a year ago at 100 years old, quietly, peacefully and by herself. She wanted it that way too. She told me she had been dependent for 77 years of her life and when my grandpa died when they were both 77 she discovered her independence for the first time and loved it. She would remarry 3 times from 77 to 90 and she even moved to Canada (she just packed up and moved out of the country when she was 87) for the duration of her 3rd and last marriage. 
 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Sherapy