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ET will have to accept Christ to enter Heaven


Eldorado
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Of course atheist are angry. When you've convinced yourself that you are a soulless meat machine without the ability to choose and the only end results of your existence is to die. You're going to be angry and depressed all the time. Then again you've got theist that fully believe that they are the center of the universe. That their god can solve all their problems if they just pray hard enough. Oddly the pagans are a bit more grounded than either of those camps.

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2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Of course atheist are angry. When you've convinced yourself that you are a soulless meat machine without the ability to choose and the only end results of your existence is to die. You're going to be angry and depressed all the time. Then again you've got theist that fully believe that they are the center of the universe. That their god can solve all their problems if they just pray hard enough. Oddly the pagans are a bit more grounded than either of those camps.

well, i can appreciate that answer.

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13 hours ago, pbarosso said:

well, then. the key points of what Jesus actually said youd MOST likely agree with. Some things maybe not. MAN is the fault in all things. the church is made of men and all things man touches is corrupted.  just look at catholic history and im a practicing catholic! 

When I was growing up the baptist minister always started his sermon with "You are ALL Sinners and you deserve to burn in hell!"  Is that what you are saying here?  It seems like it and it is wrong.  Put the fear of god in someone so that they will do as you say god wants them to, manipulation and lies.

If you ascribe to ANY protestant religion you cannot separate yourself from the catholic church, that is the root of all  the non-muslim, non jewish  judaic sects.  And if you are willing to separate yourself from the catholics you are certainly separating yourself from the original tribes/sects of the judaic religions.

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On 7/30/2020 at 12:37 PM, XenoFish said:

Would that be god instead of Jebus?

Not that I want to argue here or be bashed but to answer the question, the father, son and the holy spirit are one in the same, three ways, (in my opinion and from my studies). 

There are certain times and situation I consult God and at other times and  in other situation I consult Jesus, it just depends on the situation and circumstance. The holy spirit/ holy ghost is the spiritual side we all walk aside and live in, that most can not see or feel, the supernatural, if you like....

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3 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

Not that I want to argue here or be bashed but to answer the question, the father, son and the holy spirit are one in the same, three ways, (in my opinion and from my studies). 

There are certain times and situation I consult God and at other times and  in other situation I consult Jesus, it just depends on the situation and circumstance. The holy spirit/ holy ghost is the spiritual side we all walk aside and live in, that most can not see or feel, the supernatural, if you like....

Father, son, holy ghost.

Mind, body, soul. 

The god/jesus is a servitor of your own creation that acts as a medium between the conscious and subconscious. By asking god/jesus things you set your deep mind in motion. I call this the magical placebo effect. You can literally ask anything from any entity and get results. Faith is about trust and the emotions trust generates, so your statements are empowered by it.

If it works for you so be it. 

Take into consideration the typical banishing ritual, it's always culturally appropriate. This is due to the regional religion paradigm. 

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3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Father, son, holy ghost.

Mind, body, soul. 

The god/jesus is a servitor of your own creation that acts as a medium between the conscious and subconscious. By asking god/jesus things you set your deep mind in motion. I call this the magical placebo effect. You can literally ask anything from any entity and get results. Faith is about trust and the emotions trust generates, so your statements are empowered by it.

If it works for you so be it. 

Take into consideration the typical banishing ritual, it's always culturally appropriate. This is due to the regional religion paradigm. 

Nice, thank you.

I don't general ask for things I have been given way more than enough  but I do gave thanks ; )

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1 minute ago, Jujo-jo said:

Nice, thank you.

I don't general ask for things I have been given way more than enough  but I do gave thanks ; )

I'm going to be honest. So long as no harm is being done to anyone or themselves, I seriously don't care what people believe. Some need it, others done. I just think that there are those who take it way to far. A spiritual belief should add to life not take away from it. That actually goes to all beliefs. 

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Vain perfidiousness

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On 8/1/2020 at 3:21 AM, XenoFish said:

Father, son, holy ghost.

Mind, body, soul. 

What is the difference between the mind and soul?

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1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

What is the difference between the mind and soul?

I tend to lump the soul in with the emotions personally. Mind being the thinking part, soul being the feeling part. The idea of 'stirring the soul' is basically evoking the emotions. 

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On 7/24/2020 at 10:00 PM, micahc said:

I would laugh, but people actually spend time thinking this stuff up. Now my question is. What would we do for eternity?  Christians think all the fun stuff is a sin.  will we all be like barbies and GI joes, with nothing down there?  do we still have to go to church on sunday and will there be football?  I mean, the more I think about it, I would rather be in cleveland.

Of course there is gonna be football. Oh wait you mean American football right? 

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On 7/24/2020 at 11:13 PM, and then said:

Just a couple of comments.  Being an American, he can believe anything he wants to as long as he doesn't attempt to force it on others.  Also, his opinion is all he shared.  I don't think he was trying to get a bill passed or anything.  Believe it or not, the majority of we human-type beings believe in a Creator and an afterlife.  The difference I've observed over the years is that most believers may think nonbelievers are misguided but most of the more "vocal" nonbelievers, think of us as "less" in intelligence.  Less in credibility and often they even assume we're mental.  Engaging in such judgments of strangers is too much of a drain for most of us.  We actually have lives.

But, He is trying to force his believe on others, ETs. Not sure they will like him once they meet.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Haven't read all this thread so this may have been said.

In biblical theology, ET would theoretically  never had to be saved, because he (and his species)  never fell 

Biblically, only humans/earth fell with the  fallen angels, and succumbed to satan's lies. 

No other of god's children fell, and so dont require salvation via christ's sacrifice . . 

We are the lost sheep/ the prodigal son, who is most loved and worried about, BECAUSE we fell from  grace and god's protection     

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8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Haven't read all this thread so this may have been said.

In biblical theology, ET would theoretically  never had to be saved, because he (and his species)  never fell 

Biblically, only humans/earth fell with the  fallen angels, and succumbed to satan's lies. 

No other of god's children fell, and so dont require salvation via christ's sacrifice . . 

We are the lost sheep/ the prodigal son, who is most loved and worried about, BECAUSE we fell from  grace and god's protection     

Hi Walker

You know that is what the UB of Will's proclaims and yet I doubt that an alien race would have even developed a god concept or moved past the need for a god concept.

jmccr8

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2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

You know that is what the UB of Will's proclaims and yet I doubt that an alien race would have even developed a god concept or moved past the need for a god concept.

jmccr8

 

Since you brought up what the UB proclaims Jay, I'd like to address the issue of what it says the essentials of salvation really are, whether or not there's been subjugation for living on a world like ours that has "fallen". 

 

In response one day to the question: "What is the kingdom of heaven?"

Jesus said:

 

“The kingdom of heaven consists in these three essentials: first, recognition of the fact of the sovereignty of God; second, belief in the truth of sonship with God; and third, faith in the effectiveness of the supreme human desire to do the will of God—to be like God. And this is the good news of the gospel: that by faith every mortal may have all these essentials of salvation.”

 

 

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5 hours ago, Will do said:

Since you brought up what the UB proclaims Jay, I'd like to address the issue of what it says the essentials of salvation really are, whether or not there's been subjugation for living on a world like ours that has "fallen".

Hi Will

I didn't bring it up because I wanted to get into a discussion about it and used it as a comparison of ideas about one sinful planet. you know what I think of the UB and I really do not wish to argue the same points again.

jmccr8

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1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Will

I didn't bring it up because I wanted to get into a discussion about it and used it as a comparison of ideas about one sinful planet. you know what I think of the UB and I really do not wish to argue the same points again.

jmccr8

 

Ok

 

 

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9 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

You know that is what the UB of Will's proclaims and yet I doubt that an alien race would have even developed a god concept or moved past the need for a god concept.

jmccr8

Every race which evolves self aware intelligence will inevitably construct god concepts to explain things which their early science and knowledge cant explain.

  It is a part of cognitive process/cognitive evolution.

However, they may or may not  evolve beyond the need for these concepts.

My point was that they can become "gods" to younger, less evolved species, and IMO that is what actual gods are. 

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17 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Every race which evolves self aware intelligence will inevitably construct god concepts to explain things which their early science and knowledge cant explain.

  It is a part of cognitive process/cognitive evolution.

However, they may or may not  evolve beyond the need for these concepts.

My point was that they can become "gods" to younger, less evolved species, and IMO that is what actual gods are. 

yep- good words

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5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Every race which evolves self aware intelligence will inevitably construct god concepts to explain things which their early science and knowledge cant explain.

  It is a part of cognitive process/cognitive evolution.

However, they may or may not  evolve beyond the need for these concepts.

My point was that they can become "gods" to younger, less evolved species, and IMO that is what actual gods are. 

Hi Walker

We have spoken of these people before but just to refresh your memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people#:~:text=According to Everett%2C the Pirahã,Everett had never seen him.

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god,[9] and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him. They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made.[6] However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people.[5](pp112,134–142) Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that “Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle.” Everett and his daughter could see nothing and yet the Pirahã insisted that Xigagaí was still on the beach.[5](ppxvi–xvii)

You don't believe in the bible and your alien has not confirmed the writings in the UB so there is not much point in discussing the UB if I have already told Will that I would not discuss it with him.

jmccr8

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On 8/29/2020 at 5:39 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

We have spoken of these people before but just to refresh your memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people#:~:text=According to Everett%2C the Pirahã,Everett had never seen him.

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god,[9] and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him. They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made.[6] However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people.[5](pp112,134–142) Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that “Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle.” Everett and his daughter could see nothing and yet the Pirahã insisted that Xigagaí was still on the beach.[5](ppxvi–xvii)

You don't believe in the bible and your alien has not confirmed the writings in the UB so there is not much point in discussing the UB if I have already told Will that I would not discuss it with him.

jmccr8

The Piraha people are like me.

The y dont claim to  BELIEVE in gods, they  claim to KNOW them.

 ie they fear living powerful beings which inhabit near river areas, and can kill you.

  Everett's experience was more about his own  deconversion and loss of faith   than about  the Piraha people, and many subsequent writers have explained this, and where he got it wrong 

The piraha are "primitive" in their god constructs, like many early humans.

Their gods walk among them, are powerful and destructive/dangerous 

 Their religion and 'beliefs are "primitive" and nature based as you would expect from  their cultural stage and isolation.

    All human children construct god forms even before the y can speak Those forms are then shaped as the y become aware of their specific cultural  beliefs, and may later be rejected 

Dont define god as JUST the modern form.

Ancient gods included creatures just  like the piraha constructs, who inhabited forests, streams, etc., and could be very dangerous if encountered 

Was your last little line of text directed at me ? I dont quite get its point. 

The UB is (or may be)  one form by which humans  have tried to understand and explain  the things they learned from  contact with what i call the cosmic consciousness.

Hence some things are similar, while others are different 

We all interpret "revelations" about the nature of 'god",  or the universe, through preexisting beliefs, values, and knowledge.  ps ive had experiences with trees animals and humans who have been inhabited by a "spirit" or consciousness and spoken with me  They have all been benign and constructive  Some just liked to chat while others had information  the y wanted to tell me.  IMO these do not have their own consciousness but are being used by the cosmic consciousness which inhabits them temporarily

I've made quite a bit of money from bets placed on their advice :)  It's been quite a while since I've had such an experience, however.

Edited by Mr Walker
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3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 Their religion and 'beliefs are "primitive" and nature based as you would expect from  their cultural stage and isolation.

It's called the "personification of nature and human nature". Our river spirits were of the same vein. A river can do good or do harm but shamans understood the idea of "personification for respect" for the masses to protect them.

One of the first things I learned was spirits were created by peoples' minds. Siberian, Korean and Chinese shamans instruct their children/students exactly the same. 

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9 minutes ago, Piney said:

One of the first things I learned was spirits were created by peoples' minds. Siberian, Korean and Chinese shamans instruct their children/students exactly the same. 

If only we could get others to fully grasp that concept.

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3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If only we could get others to fully grasp that concept.

Including bias Eurocentric Christian ignoramuses.   

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I don't think we will ever know to be honest. If you look at primitive early  man, talking about Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon Man, who are  our ancestors and considered modern man (and women), these people buried their dead.They also buried with them tools or other things their dead would need in the afterlife. Well, where did they learn about the gods or God? How did they learn there was an afterlife? I don't think they dreamed it all up by themselves, though we don't know.

Maybe aliens know God the Father, but worship him in their own way. You can look up the belief of the Cathars. They believed it was Satan who created the human body, and  imprisioned bits of light ,ie the soul which was created by the Good God into said bodies. It was our job to lead as holy a life as we could so that when we died, we returned to the Good God. The gnostics , cathars and others believed in either absolute or moderate dualism. 

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