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Civilization set for 'irreversible collapse'

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Liquid Gardens
9 minutes ago, seanjo said:

a society every person in history would give an arm to live in.

Why hasn't that fact stopped you from complaining about things yet?

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jethrofloyd

Then a aliens is coming. A bigfoots comes out of the woods. And, the woolly mammoth returns from the dead.

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Doug1029

It may happen, but don't hold your breath until it does.

 

Since mid-March I have been working on a climate history of Oklahoma going back over 500 years.  I thought earlier that I was seeing an increase in humidity as measured by the Palmer Drought Severity Index.  Indeed, this seems to be the case going back to 1895 using instrumental data.  But before then, during the first half of the 19th century, Oklahoma was wetter than it is now.  So all I am doing, so far, is proving that climate changes.  Oklahoma climate will be the warmest it has ever been this year or next, but precip has been both lesser and greater during the last 250 years.

I still have a long way to go on this and we are about to enter another covid shutdown, so it will be awhile before I get back.  I'll let you know what I've found out before signing off for the shutdown.

Doug

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Doug1029
19 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The climate alarmists need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

These are two theoretical physicists.  They don't have much to do with climate.  I'd make that pinch about the size of a cattle salt block.

Doug

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Cookie Monster
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

I`m against limiters.

We must limit the number of people being born, we must limit our carbon output, we must limit our industry to green only, etc.

How about finding some enablers.

We will increase the population and develop this technology to support them, we will remove restrictions or taxations on carbon output and use this technology to remove CO2, we will let our industry make all the things we need and develop these technological solutions to enable it.

Edited by Cookie Monster
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tmcom
15 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I`m against limiters.

We must limit the number of people being born, we must limit our carbon output, we must limit our industry to green only, etc.

How about finding some enablers.

We will increase the population and develop this technology to support them, we will remove restrictions or taxations on carbon output and use this technology to remove CO2, we will let our industry make all the things we need, and develop these technological solutions to enable it.

The Cookie Monster is all wise.

B)

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Doug1029
15 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I`m against limiters.

We must limit the number of people being born, we must limit our carbon output, we must limit our industry to green only, etc.

How about finding some enablers.

We will increase the population and develop this technology to support them, we will remove restrictions or taxations on carbon output and use this technology to remove CO2, we will let our industry make all the things we need, and develop these technological solutions to enable it.

At the current rate, the world will reach ZPG about 2060 at about 9.73 billion people.  We don't need to worry about population:  it will regulate itself.

Coal is on its way out.  We simply don't have enough to last much longer.  That, too, is self-regulating.

Green energy (wind, water and solar) is already the cheapest source of power available, or approaching it.  We'll adopt it because it is more profitable than older systems.

Carbon taxes should be abolished because THEY DO NOT WORK.  There are too many ways to cheat.

Instead of fees on carbon output, charge them on carbon input.  Charge those fees at the mine mouth, well head or port-of-entry.  Pass them along in the prices of coal, gas, oil, etc.  THEN:  distribute those fees on a per capita basis to all residents of the country.  That gives everybody a vested interest in the fee system.  Start the fees small and slowly increase them over time until CO2 content of the air stabilizes.  After that, terraform earth by taking CO2 out of the air.

Industry can thus make anything people will buy.

Doug

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seanjo
2 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Why hasn't that fact stopped you from complaining about things yet?

What things?

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lightly

Sometimes I worry a little about the vast majority of earth's population having no means of survival in the event of extremely severe Economic collapse.   In every century past...the means of production ,and acquisition, of food and other necessities was Localized .    Now we are Completely dependent on much larger and  widespread systems which are Vulnerable to ....interruption.

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Doug1029
3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

I`m against limiters.

People don't like it when other people say they have to do this or have to do that.  So how do we minimize the impact of conversion to clean energy?

Most people do not realize that the US is already producing about 25% of its energy from renewable, green sources, mostly water, wind and a little solar.  Did you notice when the changeover was made?

First, we built the infrastructure, windmills, penstocks, solar collectors.  Then when everything was ready, it was just a matter of throwing the switch.  At most, you would see a flicker on your TV screen as the switch-over happened.  You might notice that your electric bills were a little bit lower.  Not even an inconvenience.

 

Set up a system so that people will do what you want them to without knowing they are doing it.  People generally buy the cheaper of two products.  If there's a hidden fee in the price of the one with the greatest carbon content, the price will be higher and people will tend to buy the cheaper product.  Result:  less carbon in the air and not even the climate-change deniers realize it's happening.  We don't have to tell anybody they do/don't have to buy this or that - they are free to choose whichever product they want.

 

Encourage people to switch to electric heat by offering to cost-share new heating systems.  Forget the long list of regulations.  If you put in this type of furnace, the govt reimburses x percent of the cost.  You're free to put in a different type if you want, but then you get less cost-sharing money.

 

Electric companies will increase the capacity of their trunk lines just because there are more people buying electricity.  Nobody tells them they have to.  But if they want to tap this source of profits, they have to have the system that can handle it.

 

And so on:  most conversion will take place without even being noticed.

Doug

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Liquid Gardens
2 hours ago, seanjo said:

What things?

There are supposedly 500,000+ slaves in Mauritania alone, where is the outrage from the lefty/BLM community?

Trump Derangement Syndrome. You are under attack from left-wing activists.

You are just another remoaner trying to undermine Brexit, guess what, too late, we left.

Etcetera....  So given your noting that everyone in history would give their arm to live in today's society, why is this 'whining' okay?

 

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seanjo
3 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

There are supposedly 500,000+ slaves in Mauritania alone, where is the outrage from the lefty/BLM community?

Trump Derangement Syndrome. You are under attack from left-wing activists.

You are just another remoaner trying to undermine Brexit, guess what, too late, we left.

Etcetera....  So given your noting that everyone in history would give their arm to live in today's society, why is this 'whining' okay?

 

You think pointing out ongoing slavery is a "complaint" - you're the problem, not the answer. I'll stop there clown.

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Liquid Gardens
11 minutes ago, seanjo said:

You think pointing out ongoing slavery is a "complaint" - you're the problem, not the answer. I'll stop there clown.

Ha, didn't think you'd apply your same 'reasoning', to use the term very loosely, to yourself.

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seanjo
27 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Ha, didn't think you'd apply your same 'reasoning', to use the term very loosely, to yourself.

'Clown Lives Matter' rally aims to show people clowns are ...

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Saxman

In order for the human race to survive the race to exhaust natural resources an unprecedented degree of global government will be required in everything from birth control to limitations on the use of natural resources. Given the present degree of self preservation 40 years is extremely optimistic.

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A rather obscure Bassoon

The machines will take over...

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DieChecker
Posted (edited)
Quote

"Calculations show that, maintaining the actual rate of population growth and resource consumption, in particular forest consumption, we have a few decades left before an irreversible collapse of our civilization."

Except population is expected to tapper off and actually start decreasing in about 70 years.

And, AFAIK, in the US we have more trees now then 150 years ago. The same should apply to those newly "enlightened" third world nations due to education and economic pressures.

I am calling BS on this one.

I knew a guy back in college (1990), who was very liberal, and well educated, who would regularly tell everyone that all trees were already logged in Oregon, and pot was the future crop of choice, and that the ozone hole had already doomed is all, and that hunting should be banned as there was only a few wild animals left. And that hurricanes were going to get worse and worse every year...

Not everyone who is smart, and educated, is correct in their opinions.

Edited by DieChecker
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GlitterRose

Wow...they think we've got 40 years. 

Optimists.

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pbarosso

we dont have to worry, wars will take care of everything. wars make innovation happen at the fastest rates. population control=less lives to cut down the forest, blockades spur developments of new energy sources, less mouths=less stress on the land and sea-life. 

 

humans are just the most intelligent animals on earth, but we are STILL animals.

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lightly
6 hours ago, pbarosso said:

we dont have to worry, wars will take care of everything. wars make innovation happen at the fastest rates. population control=less lives to cut down the forest, blockades spur developments of new energy sources, less mouths=less stress on the land and sea-life. 

 

humans are just the most intelligent animals on earth, but we are STILL animals.

   Right...and disease of course. . Just need to think positive like that.

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Jon the frog
Posted (edited)

Reforestation occur in some countries and others are following slowly. I don't think we will see total deforestation beside if the ocean become totaly anoxic from climate change and they release clouds of sulphuric acids and methane to do a total cleansing.

Edited by Jon the frog

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