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Who Gets Vaccinated First


Dustyrose33

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Herd immunity doesnt work for COVID19, so that is not the answer.:yes:

https://www.healthline.com/health/herd-immunity

? What

The context of my post is talking about the vaccine. Vaccines cause herd immunity.

Also, your articles is from April 2nd. 

Edited by spartan max2
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48 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

? What

The context of my post is talking about the vaccine. Vaccines cause herd immunity.

Also, your articles is from April 2nd. 

Herd immunity for this Virus may never happen even with a Vaccine, to date many who have been infected and recovered are becoming sick again from the Virus. The biggest problem even with a Vaccine is that it appears that Antibodies created during infection for some reason are rapidly breaking down, according to new studies being currently published it appears that most people are losing their antibodie protection in around 57 days after recovery from infection.

This also makes a vaccine less effective for the same reason, which may make it necessary that Vaccines may need to be given in multiple doses over a period of time. So while I hope I am wrong we may never actually reach herd immunity from infection or from a Vaccine. It appears that for some reason this Virus can slip past the immune response and attack the lungs. This is problematic because along with antibodies another important part of our immune system are T - Cells and these cells can not effectively fight infections in the lungs. 

So when these factors are considered an effective Vaccine may be very difficult to produce with long lasting effects. So herd immunity isn't really something to count on even with a Vaccine especially since for the US alone it would take 70% of the population to have immunity for herd immunity to take place. Last Virus mutation is another factor that must be considered, its possible a number of mutations could render even a vaccine ineffective. This is a very unique Virus in many ways, but hopefully somehow we will win in the end.

https://theconversation.com/immunity-to-covid-19-may-not-last-this-threatens-a-vaccine-and-herd-immunity-142556

 

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17 hours ago, Dustyrose33 said:

I was reading an article about who would get priority in being vaccinated and ran across this near the end of the article:

If the first vaccine that’s available produces less of an immune response in older adults, that could change the priority consideration for older adults.

 

And I'm thinking what the H does that mean, that just because the immune response was lower in some older people, that all people 65 or older are all lumped together and pushed to the side?   Are they saying people in the 65+ age bracket are gonna die anyway, so that's tough if the virus gets them?  Gee thanks a frickin lot US government.    Som' beaches.

I am willing to donate my vaccination to someone.

Because I wont be receiving it.

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3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well all I can say is Republicans do not need to get a Vaccination, they are still claiming this Pandemic is hoax.:D I personally think the countries Republicans should only receive Hydroxychloroquine,;) according to President Trump that's all you need,:yes: he says it works as a preventative medication and it will save your life if your infected, so what else do they need,:lol: I mean the President would never lie to his followers!!!:yes::D

HCQ is said to be ineffective for Covid 19.   You know, even without a vaccine some other countries have the virus level pretty low, so their infections and deaths are much lower than the US because their leaders and citizens took this seriously.   Why is it impossible to achieve the same thing in the US?   Because we have Donald Trump who thinks the virus will just go away, and citizens, who like him, think this whole thing is a hoax.

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1 hour ago, Dustyrose33 said:

HCQ is said to be ineffective for Covid 19.   You know, even without a vaccine some other countries have the virus level pretty low, so their infections and deaths are much lower than the US because their leaders and citizens took this seriously.   Why is it impossible to achieve the same thing in the US?   Because we have Donald Trump who thinks the virus will just go away, and citizens, who like him, think this whole thing is a hoax.

I am an American Expatriate living in South Korea, my wife and I were in the United States from December 2019 until April 2020,  when we returned to South Korea. South Korea had a serious number of infections in February thru the end of March, but do to contact tracing, wearing masks, social distancing they got the entire situation under control. This country never shut down like the US did, Schools only closed in areas that were hard hit, but for not more than a month.

Now, things are completely back to normal, except for masks and good hand hygiene. So I agree with you President Trump and both Political Parties have failed the American people. President Trump though is mainly responsible due to his erratic and foolish behavior, comments and Tweets, no other single person has caused more confusion and damage than President Trump. In place of Leadership, he has sown division, hatred, and complete misinformation.

The American people simplely do not know what too do, the media says one thing, the President says something different, and when everyone should be listening to the Nations Senior Medical personal, the President try's to destroy their message, because it doesn't fit his ignorant way of handling this crisis. I don't know how America will get through this, but one thing I am certain of it will not occur by the Presidents Leadership. America is the only country in the World where the Countries Leader isn't setting policies for the nation to follow.

Watching the way things are going in America makes me so sad, we have lost so many people who didn't need to die. Our country that once was the Leader when it came to anything that occurred is now reduced to Nation that has travel bans against it because of a Virus. I believe that America can rise to greatness again but not with Donald Trump in the White House for another term, so in my opinion the key to Americas survival comes down to Dumping Trump in November.

Take Care, and thanks for your post.

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15 hours ago, TigerBright19 said:

To put it all in context.  Was the paranoia and global lockdown really necessary?

 

coronav.png

 

 

.....and the majority of the cases are mild.  This pandemic would not even make the news in the old days.

 

medical.png

 

 

And in the USA:

image.png.4bd8f25ac51595a532ba6a72197211fa.png

 

image.png.2a8429d39864bac5a3b98c81bf0336af.png

 

image.png.da67ba0e3c765377b93d8802a36fa964.png

 

How big a piece of the pie would you like?

Edited by Peter B
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15 hours ago, TigerBright19 said:

To put it all in context.  Was the paranoia and global lockdown really necessary?

 

coronav.png

 

 

.....and the majority of the cases are mild.  This pandemic would not even make the news in the old days.

 

medical.png

 

Yes, the lockdown was necessary.   If not for that the number of serious cases and deaths would be much higher.

Edited by Dustyrose33
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I believe not just the US but the entire world needs an effective vaccine to get this virus under control.   Along with vaccine I support a natural approach of supplements and nutrition to beat this thing.   There is something somewhere that will control Covid 19. 

About two or three weeks ago I had gone shopping, with a mask on.   But soon after that one day my hands in particular felt very hot in the palms.  I felt fairly well otherwise.   Never have had a cough during this pandemic and still don't.   I suffer shortness of breath off and on, due to allergies mainly.   But after about two days the hot feeling in my palms left and hasn't returned. 

Could be the supplements I take and green tea has helped, because I'm sure I've been exposed to the virus either through caregivers not wearing masks, etc.  

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20 hours ago, TigerBright19 said:

To put it all in context.  Was the paranoia and global lockdown really necessary?

 

 

.....and the majority of the cases are mild.  This pandemic would not even make the news in the old days.

 

medical.png

 

 

So you think it is okay to kill millions of people? If this virus runs through the US population it will kill roughly 2 million give or take a few hundred thousand.  Are you okay with those people being killed?

Even those with mild or NO symptoms can suffer permanent organ damage. Are you okay with that as well?

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7 minutes ago, stereologist said:

So you think it is okay to kill millions of people? If this virus runs through the US population it will kill roughly 2 million give or take a few hundred thousand.  Are you okay with those people being killed?

Even those with mild or NO symptoms can suffer permanent organ damage. Are you okay with that as well?

 

have you forgotten that the whole thing about lockdown / masks etc is to SLOW DOWN the spread... not stop it because it is going to spread anyway one way or another,,,

edit to add.... and a destroyed (world / national) economy at the end of the day could kill as many or more people in the long run - in various ways...

 

 

Edited by bee
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1 minute ago, bee said:

 

have you forgotten that the whole thing about lockdown / masks etc is to SLOW DOWN the spread... not stop it because it is going to spread anyway one way or another,,,

 

Apparently you have not noticed that lockdowns and good hygiene have stopped the virus in places such as China and Korea. Outbreaks are limited in size in those countries.

Viruses can be stopped. Slowing down the spread prevents other issues.

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19 minutes ago, stereologist said:

So you think it is okay to kill millions of people? If this virus runs through the US population it will kill roughly 2 million give or take a few hundred thousand.  Are you okay with those people being killed?

Even those with mild or NO symptoms can suffer permanent organ damage. Are you okay with that as well?

The topic is about vaccinations.  I am asking should the global population be forced to get a mandatory vaccination if only 0.2% of the global population have had the virus and 80% of those people only had mild symptoms of it.  It does not warrant the global enforcement of vaccinations.  Handing over significant power on a global scale is not something to be welcomed so easily.  The next step would naturally be global identification and unification with every citizen effectively reduced to a barcode.  Is that what everyone is happy with.

 

....bleep.....(good morning citizen.  You now have access to enter this food store)

biology gifs Page 7 | WiffleGif

 

 

Edited by TigerBright19
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Just now, stereologist said:

Apparently you have not noticed that lockdowns and good hygiene have stopped the virus in places such as China and Korea. Outbreaks are limited in size in those countries.

Viruses can be stopped. Slowing down the spread prevents other issues.

 

probably everyone who was going to get it has had it and is ok - but because around 80% of cases are mild to moderate (or don't need medical intervention)...... it might look like it's been stopped...but

 it just ran it's course

 

 

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1 minute ago, TigerBright19 said:

The topic is about vaccinations.  I am asking should the global population be forced to get a mandatory vaccination if only 0.2% of the global population have had the virus and 80% of those people only had mild symptoms of it.  It does not warrant the global enforcement of vaccinations.  Handing over significant power on a global scale is not something to be welcomed so easily.  The next step would naturally be global identification and unification with every citizen effectively reduced to a barcode.  Is that what everyone is happy with.

One of the issues here is that people think that hundreds of thousands of dead is okay. That appears to be your position.

Many people permanently injured seems to be okay with you as well.

Vaccinations save lives, are cheap, and easily dispensed. What is this 'Handing over significant power on a global scale" nonsense all about?

I think you are on a loony conspiracy trip.

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Just now, bee said:

 

probably everyone who was going to get it has had it and is ok - but because around 80% of cases are mild to moderate (or don't need medical intervention)...... it might look like it's been stopped...but

 it just ran it's course

 

 

Are you not watching the news as new records are set every day?

The mild and asymptomatic cases do get permanent organ damage. Are you paying attention at all?

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Just now, stereologist said:

The mild and asymptomatic cases do get permanent organ damage


so apart from scaring people more into compliance.... if this is part of it for a small % there's not much we can do.... I think I had it last December - and my Mom and all the residents and staff at her care home as well.... and it looks like it swept through the town where I live at the end of last year... there is no talk of organ damage round here... apart from the odd mention got from the (untrustworthy) MSM... 

I haven't looked at the data yet about what your saying but I wouldn't be surprised if this is another ramping up of the fear mongering...

to scare people into supporting a mandatory vaccine... 

 

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9 minutes ago, bee said:

 

to scare people into supporting a mandatory vaccine... 

 

But if heard immunity doesn't work, why the need for a vaccine? Can anyone explain this to me?

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2 minutes ago, bee said:


so apart from scaring people more into compliance.... if this is part of it for a small % there's not much we can do.... I think I had it last December - and my Mom and all the residents and staff at her care home as well.... and it looks like it swept through the town where I live at the end of last year... there is no talk of organ damage round here... apart from the odd mention got from the (untrustworthy) MSM... 

I haven't looked at the data yet about what your saying but I wouldn't be surprised if this is another ramping up of the fear mongering...

to scare people into supporting a mandatory vaccine... 

 

You should learn that your guesses and personal experience tell us little other than the effect of the virus on you. You are using an informal logical fallacy called a hasty generalization.

https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-hasty-generalization/#:~:text=The hasty generalization fallacy is sometimes called the,have only an example or two as evidence.

In this case your lack of knowledge in the cases in your town is generalized to no effect. You dismiss reports from other areas and from health experts because it conflicts with your hasty generalization.

Let's get you up to speed

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/14/scripps-asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-organ/

Quote

Scripps Research cardiologist Eric Topol and his colleagues looked at research on over a dozen cohorts of coronavirus patients around the world. He found many of the patients that were asymptomatic still incurred lung abnormalities.

"People can go through a whole infection and not know it at all," he said.

"But the other thing that we uncovered that was a surprise to us, and I don't think most people know this, is that even though you don't have symptoms, which is silent enough as it is, there's another level of silence, which is you can have internal organ damage and not know it."

One study looked at CT scans conducted on individuals aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship. In that case, 54% of 76 asymptomatic individuals showed significant subclinical lung abnormalities

https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2020/06/27/covid-19_asymptomatic_people_can_still_develop_lung_damage_111442.html

Quote

I quickly learned that many patients with advanced COVID-19 disease bore none of the hallmarks of severe respiratory illness until they suddenly collapsed and died. The science behind this early lesson is now emerging, with a study from Wuhan, China, describing pathological lung changes on CT scans of completely asymptomatic patients. Asymptomatic carriage is not uncommon in other virulent infections, such as MRSA and C diff, but what is striking with SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) is that it may be accompanied by underlying organ damage.

The researchers found lesions consistent with inflammation of the underlying lung tissue (ground-glass opacities and consolidation, to use the medical jargon), which are not specific to SARS-CoV-2 infection and may be seen in many other forms of lung disease. What remains a mystery is why, despite these changes, patients do not display typical symptoms of pneumonia, such as severe shortness of breath.

 

 

This is not new. It was noticed back in march as this report tells us.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/26/lung-damage-seen-in-recently-asymptomatic-coronavirus-patient/

Quote

Disturbing video shows how COVID-19 ravaged the lungs of a patient who had been asymptomatic just days earlier.

Dr. Keith Mortman, the chief of thoracic surgery at George Washington University Hospital, said the hospital created a 360-degree image of the lungs of a 59-year-old male patient who had been generally healthy except for a history of high blood pressure, CNN reported.

In the scans, the yellow areas, which highlight the infected and inflamed regions, cover both of the lungs.

Here is an article from April

https://nypost.com/2020/04/15/coronavirus-reportedly-damages-patients-kidneys-heart-liver/

Quote

Medical professionals around the world are seeing evidence suggesting COVID-19 could be causing a slew of issues unrelated to the lungs, including heart inflammation, acute kidney disease, neurological malfunction, blood clots, intestinal damage and liver problems, The Washington Post reported.

Nearly half of those hospitalized with the virus have blood or protein in their urine, showing early damage to their kidneys, according to Alan Kliger, a nephrologist at the Yale School of Medicine.

Early data also shows that 14 to 30 percent of ICU patients in New York and Wuhan, China — where the virus originated — losing kidney function and needing dialysis or continuous renal replacement therapy, Kliger said.

 

Everyone put on their thinking caps. Why do you think the recent German study used both kidney cells and lung cells in their study?

 

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32 minutes ago, stereologist said:

One of the issues here is that people think that hundreds of thousands of dead is okay. That appears to be your position.

Many people permanently injured seems to be okay with you as well.

Vaccinations save lives, are cheap, and easily dispensed. What is this 'Handing over significant power on a global scale" nonsense all about?

I think you are on a loony conspiracy trip.

Put it in context.

0.2% infected globally (majority suffering minor symptoms.)

669 thousand deaths (Figure is really much lower than this because the majority died from pre-existing health issues not mentioned on the msm)

Hospital appointments are pushed back months which will cause the more serious illnesses to spike.

15 million die each year from heart disease / stroke

3 million die each year from Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease

3 million die each year from work related accidents

Over a million die each year in road traffic accidents

The list goes on and on...

When you put it in context and have had members of your family who have died from all of the above except Covid and know absolutely nobody who has ever had Coronavirus, and you stand back and look at the wider picture with business and trade collapsing globally then you see that Covid does not warrant the global hysteria and potential enforcement of mandatory vaccinations.  Who is going to enforce it, and who is going to track and record it?  Will each country take radical steps to enforce it on their people.  These are important questions that have not been addressed.

 

Covid would not even make the top 10 list.

 

Top 10 global causes of deaths 2016

 

 

Edited by TigerBright19
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5 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

But if heard immunity doesn't work, why the need for a vaccine? Can anyone explain this to me?

Like the flu vaccine it prevents the spread of the disease to those that take the vaccine. Unlike herd immunity it protects the recipient in the short term and not the long term. The flu vaccine has to be taken every year due to the rapid mutation of the flu virus. In this case the virus does not have to mutate quickly because there is a chance that the vaccine has a limited efficacy.

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1 minute ago, Hugh Mungus said:

But if heard immunity doesn't work, why the need for a vaccine? Can anyone explain this to me?

 

the rules seem to be changing all the time + goal posts moved around...

for example...

 it's mutating !!!.... well if it's mutating a vaccine won't be able to catch up with the mutations...

80% get it mild to moderate...yes but they will get organ damage !!!!

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Everyone put on their thinking caps. Why do you think the recent German study used both kidney cells and lung cells in their study?

 

I have a problem with your posts I'm afraid...

You see, the thing is..... I don't trust you.... and I doubt I will ever be swayed by anything you say... (or your links)

I will have a look at what you have put in your other post when I'm not so tired... but ....

I am suspicious of your motives...

just saying - 

 

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Just now, TigerBright19 said:

Put it in context.

0.2% infected globally (majority suffering minor symptoms.)

669 thousand deaths (Figure is really much lower than this because the majority died from pre-existing health issues not mentioned on the msm)

Hospital appointments are pushed back months which will cause the more serious illnesses to spike.

15 million die each year from heart disease / stroke

3 million die each year from Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease

3 million die each year from work related accidents

Over a million die each year in road traffic accidents

The list goes on and on...

When you put it in context and have had members of your family who have died from all of the above except Covid and know absolutely nobody who has ever had Coronavirus, and you stand back and look at the wider picture with business and trade collapsing globally then you see that Covid does not warrant the global hysteria and potential enforcement of mandatory vaccinations.  Who is going to enforce it, and who is going to track and record it?  Will each country take radical steps according to enforce it.  These are important questions that have not been addressed.  When it comes into affect the next step and the next will be much easier to implement.

 

 

The percent infected now is not of value since this is an ongoing epidemic. When the outbreak first started it was 0.00001% or less. If we choose to believe your number, then we have gone from there to 0.2%. The number will increase. Look a the US. It was at 0% a few months ago and after 7 months the US is at 1.4% infected. That leaves 98.6% of the population still targets for this disease. At the current CFR that means 11,000,000 people will die in the US.

Here you rely on a false assertion: "because the majority died from pre-existing health issues" You are also dead wrong about this portion of your narrative: "not mentioned on the msm"

You have not stated where these figures you posted came from or what they apply to.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Less than 10 million die from heart disease worldwide. You claimed 15 but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the potential lethality of this disease on a worldwide scale.

Your own numbers show that the disease is far greater than the possibly inflated numbers you have posted.

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12 minutes ago, bee said:

 

the rules seem to be changing all the time + goal posts moved around...

for example...

 it's mutating !!!.... well if it's mutating a vaccine won't be able to catch up with the mutations...

80% get it mild to moderate...yes but they will get organ damage !!!!

Not true. It depends on what mutates. People mutate but everyone seems to be a target of this virus.

 

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3 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I have a problem with your posts I'm afraid...

You see, the thing is..... I don't trust you.... and I doubt I will ever be swayed by anything you say... (or your links)

I will have a look at what you have put in your other post when I'm not so tired... but ....

I am suspicious of your motives...

just saying - 

 

That's fine. Some people go hide our head in the sand and pretend that a lack of knowledge is a virtue.

Follow the evidence. I posted reports about two different research groups in two different countries. I also posted older reports to reveal how long this has been known.

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