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Obviousman

Hydroxychloroquine

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Obviousman

Hydroxychloroquine is a poor coronavirus treatment but a perfect parable for our times

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-01/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-drug-now-right-wing-ideology/12510812

Quote

The group had all the trappings of medical authority.

Wearing white coats as they stood with serious faces in front of the US Supreme Court earlier this week, they called themselves "America's Frontline Doctors".

In the video of their press conference, which was livestreamed on Facebook, the group promoted a familiar but controversial narrative: that the drug hydroxychloroquine could help treat COVID-19.

They made their claims despite large scientific studies showing the drug doesn't benefit people hospitalised with the disease.

Quote

"The hope was it might be somewhat useful," said Derek Lowe, a long-time drug discovery researcher and author of In the Pipeline, a long-running science blog on the Science Translational Medicine website. "No-one expected great things out of hydroxychloroquine."

Quote

But in the eyes of other scientists, the study was decidedly lacklustre. It was small and uncontrolled, which meant there was no group that did not receive the treatment to compare the results against.

But those caveats, and underwhelming results from other trials, ceased to hold much weight in the greater public consciousness after US President Donald Trump weighed in.

Quote

Like Ms Thomas, Dr Buchanan has seen hydroxychloroquine picked up by right-wing and pro-Trump circles on social media. He said it remains one of the most discussed potential treatments online.

"HCQ has been the dominant narrative up to this point."

The failure of hydroxychloroquine to emerge as a usable COVID-19 treatment so far can be seen as many things by such groups. It might be "evidence" of the pharmaceutical industry's backing of alternative drugs, for example, or an excuse by the "deep state" to eventually vaccinate everyone.

Ms Thomas described what she calls "conspiracy collapse", where social media platforms bring together many different kinds of sometimes contradictory conspiracies.

Quote

Ultimately, however, what frustrates him most about the hydroxychloroquine hype is the vast gulf between the appealing narrative it offers and the usual way that medical science advances.

Most of the drugs that scientists develop, Mr Lowe said, for everything from cancer to coronaviruses, simply do not work. They fail.

"There aren't very many miracle drugs."

Let's hear that again:

"There aren't very many miracle drugs."

Edited by Obviousman
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Imaginarynumber1

My favorite part about this entire debacle is that same people who are distrustful of every sort scientist or doctor or whathaveyou, IMMEDIATELY jumped on the hydroxychloroquine bandwagon when trump touted it and steadfastly refuse to view literally any of the evidence that shows that it doesn't help treat covid.

This is snake oil at it's finest and i would in no way be shocked to see some sort of link between trump and his cronies and investments and/or shady dealings in companies that produce hydroxycholorquine or its base components. **cough cough* Kodak CEO getting stock options the day before a 765 million loan to make HCQ components, netting him 200 million dollars*cough cough*

'

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and then
42 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

steadfastly refuse to view literally any of the evidence that shows that it doesn't help treat covid.

No one ever claimed it was a miracle drug.  Trump stated he thought it should be a decision between the doctor and patient.  Those who spurn the drug will never have it forced upon them.  As to people choosing who to believe, I'd say a professor of epidemiology at Yale, an MD, PhD, might know a lot about the topic and he affirms its efficacy in SOME CASES.  Those who reject it because Trump said anything about it are living their hate for him and I say, if they reject it, fine.  Stupidity kills more people than cancer every day :tu:

Edited by and then
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quiXilver

'Murica:  Land of FreeDumb

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stereologist
2 hours ago, and then said:

No one ever claimed it was a miracle drug.  Trump stated he thought it should be a decision between the doctor and patient.  Those who spurn the drug will never have it forced upon them.  As to people choosing who to believe, I'd say a professor of epidemiology at Yale, an MD, PhD, might know a lot about the topic and he affirms its efficacy in SOME CASES.  Those who reject it because Trump said anything about it are living their hate for him and I say, if they reject it, fine.  Stupidity kills more people than cancer every day :tu:

Are you that clueless? YES YOU ARE!

Trump called it a game changer.

Zelenko and Raoult claimed it cured COVId-19.

Gold claimed it cure COVID-19.

All you have is nothing to support this stupidity. You do not refernence a single study here. Why? Because they show that you are dead wrong.

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stereologist

Here is more proof hat and then is full of it.

https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-removes-president-donald-trumps-154628448.html

Quote

WASHINGTON – In another battle between Twitter and the Trump administration, the social media company has taken action against President Donald Trump and his son for posts that promoted bogus cures for COVID-19.

Twitter removed a post that Trump had retweeted in which a doctor proclaims, without evidence, that "there is a cure" for the coronavirus.

Trump passed up the chance to criticize the social media giant, telling reporters at a White House news conference he did not know why Twitter and other companies removed the video in question.

"Maybe they had a good reason, maybe they didn't," he said.

 

Trump also defended the doctor who claimed there was a coronavorus cure (and has said that alien DNA is being used in medical treatments). "I thought her voice was an important voice, but I know nothing about her," he said.

This has idiot Trump supporting idiot Immanuel that HCQ cures COVID-19.

Is there any ability to remember anything in the head of and then? This is what you stated.

"No one ever claimed it was a miracle drug.  "

Here  is a BS stupid asinine junk pretend newspaper called the Washington Examiner and they contradict you and then

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-backs-controversial-doctor-who-says-hydroxychloroquine-cures-coronavirus

Quote

President Trump trumpeted his support for hydroxychloroquine on Tuesday, defending a controversial doctor who said it was a cure for COVID-19, even though it is no longer authorized for emergency use.

 

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Imaginarynumber1
6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Are you that clueless? YES YOU ARE!

Trump called it a game changer.

Zelenko and Raoult claimed it cured COVId-19.

Gold claimed it cure COVID-19.

All you have is nothing to support this stupidity. You do not refernence a single study here. Why? Because they show that you are dead wrong.

My exact words he quoted:

Quote

steadfastly refuse to view literally any of the evidence that shows that it doesn't help treat covid.

 

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stereologist

Is it air or a vacuum between the ears of a poster?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/apr/06/coronavirus-cure-fact-check-hydroxychloroquine-trump

Quote

Trump touts hydroxychloroquine as a cure for Covid-19. Don't believe the hype

Trump claims HCQ is a cure. How did and then miss this stupidity by Trump?

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stereologist

Jut when you think the stupidity has hit a record low point you learn that there are even stupider ideas.

When  you are in a deep hole and you see  no possibility of escape STOP DIGGING

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Hankenhunter
53 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Jut when you think the stupidity has hit a record low point you learn that there are even stupider ideas.

When  you are in a deep hole and you see  no possibility of escape STOP DIGGING

And then will just blame the media's agenda against Trump. It's one of his hallmark fallbacks. Unbelievable that the "demon seed doctor" didn't clue him in that it was nothing more than another *Trump scam. Truly delusional. 

Ec48mP5WsAQlnNb.jpeg

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Manwon Lender
4 hours ago, and then said:

No one ever claimed it was a miracle drug.  Trump stated he thought it should be a decision between the doctor and patient.  Those who spurn the drug will never have it forced upon them.  As to people choosing who to believe, I'd say a professor of epidemiology at Yale, an MD, PhD, might know a lot about the topic and he affirms its efficacy in SOME CASES.  Those who reject it because Trump said anything about it are living their hate for him and I say, if they reject it, fine.  Stupidity kills more people than cancer every day :tu:

If that is true how are you still alive;), because Stupidity is your best friend. The Doctors you site are quacks, or stooges paid by the Trump Administration like Stella Immanuel, the quack who thinks Demons have sex with people while sleep and that Alien DNA is being used to treat the sick :td:

Why do you people push this agenda when you know it false, youall are sad!! 

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bee
4 hours ago, and then said:

No one ever claimed it was a miracle drug.  Trump stated he thought it should be a decision between the doctor and patient.  Those who spurn the drug will never have it forced upon them.  As to people choosing who to believe, I'd say a professor of epidemiology at Yale, an MD, PhD, might know a lot about the topic and he affirms its efficacy in SOME CASES.  Those who reject it because Trump said anything about it are living their hate for him and I say, if they reject it, fine.  Stupidity kills more people than cancer every day :tu:


One could be forgiven for thinking that some wicked / evil people want to deny Americans the widespread use of hydroxychloroquine so that the death tally is high and they can point the finger at Trump and use it for political purposes... 

People could have lost family and friends and neighbours etc that might have survived if they had been given hydroxychloroquine.......  or might not have got it in the first place.....because the Democrats and their Globalist backers are desperate to win the election in November...

Imagine what the US public would think if they realize that could be going on... outrage doesn't come close...

I just saw and posted this tweet about India on another thread and it drives the point I'm making home...

 

 

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Imaginarynumber1
1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

And then will just blame the media's agenda against Trump. It's one of his hallmark fallbacks. Unbelievable that the "demon seed doctor" didn't clue him in that it was nothing more than another *Trump scam. Truly delusional. 

Ec48mP5WsAQlnNb.jpeg

Major League Baseball and it's limitless funds can't keep covid at bay, but i'm sure they teachers that have to create gofundme's just to get supplies for their classrooms will be just fine.....

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Davros of Skaro
26 minutes ago, bee said:


One could be forgiven for thinking that some wicked / evil people want to deny Americans the widespread use of hydroxychloroquine so that the death tally is high and they can point the finger at Trump and use it for political purposes... 

People could have lost family and friends and neighbours etc that might have survived if they had been given hydroxychloroquine.......  or might not have got it in the first place.....because the Democrats and their Globalist backers are desperate to win the election in November...

Imagine what the US public would think if they realize that could be going on... outrage doesn't come close...

I just saw and posted this tweet about India on another thread and it drives the point I'm making home...

 

 

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

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Peter B

From Davros's link:

Quote

Dr. Zervos also pointed out, as does the paper, that the study results should be interpreted with some caution, should not be applied to patients treated outside of hospital settings and require further confirmation in prospective, randomized controlled trials that rigorously evaluate the safety and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine therapy for COVID-19.

“Currently, the drug should be used only in hospitalized patients with appropriate monitoring, and as part of study protocols, in accordance with all relevant federal regulations,” Dr. Zervos said.

Edited by Peter B
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Hankenhunter
3 minutes ago, Peter B said:

From Davros's link:

Never fails to amuse me how their own links shoot themselves in the foot.

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Davros of Skaro
1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

You're tweet quoting a known right wing shill, and Trump ass kisser? Hard pass. 

Just post your prefered left wing shill and smirk.

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Davros of Skaro
6 minutes ago, Peter B said:

From Davros's link:

Self medicating was not implied. :wacko:

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Imaginarynumber1
14 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

This BS study again? 

Try again

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/31/health/hydroxychloroquine-study-henry-ford-letters/index.html

Quote

Researchers on Wednesday published scathing critiques of a study President Trump repeatedly touted on Twitter.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/07/31/anthony-fauci-henry-ford-health-hydroxychloroquine-study-flawed/5559367002/

Quote

Dr. Anthony Fauci told federal lawmakers Friday that a study by Henry Ford Health System that showed hydroxychloroquine was effective in lowering the death rate among COVID-19 patients was "flawed."  

Health officials should instead rely on the "gold standard" of a randomized, placebo controlled study to determine whether the drug is effective, Fauci told the U.S. House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/a-flawed-covid-19-study-gets-the-white-houses-attention-and-the-fda-may-pay-the-price/

Quote

A flawed Covid-19 study gets the White House’s attention — and the FDA may pay the price

 

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bee
14 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Dr. Anthony Fauci told federal lawmakers Friday that a study by Henry Ford Health System that showed hydroxychloroquine was effective in lowering the death rate among COVID-19 patients was "flawed."  

 

 

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Davros of Skaro
21 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

"Instead of orchestrating a war on HCQ,  the media should be asking key questions, such as:

  • How does ONE person, by his own admission, block directives from his superiors to expand availability of HCQ for outpatients and nursing home patients in the U.S.?
  • What is the cost in lives and economic damage resulting from one person’s decision to restrict physicians’ independent medical decision-making?
  • How many nursing home deaths could have been prevented if physicians had been allowed early access to HCQ?
  • Why are U.S. doctors and nurses prevented from using HCQ prophylactically when workers in China, South Korea, India, Brazil, Argentina, Israel, Australia, Turkey, France, and other countries can be protected?
  • Why does the U.S. with its a much more sophisticated medical infrastructure have a much higher mortality rate than poor countries?

Bright’s disastrous bureaucratic decision may well be remembered as one of the worst preventable medical tragedies in our time. Never again should one government employee be allowed unrestrained power without oversight, and allowed to make a sweeping order interfering with the prescribing authority of front-line physicians trying to save lives."

https://aapsonline.org/fda-bureaucrat-brags-he-blocked-physician-prescribing-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-early-covid-19/

 

:Conclusions: Risk stratification-based treatment of COVID-19 outpatients as early as possible after symptom onset with the used triple therapy, including the combination of zinc with low dose hydroxychloroquine, was associated with significantly less hospitalizations and 5 times less all-cause deaths."

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1

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Davros of Skaro
7 minutes ago, bee said:

 

 

Exactly!

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Imaginarynumber1
25 minutes ago, bee said:

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

"Instead of orchestrating a war on HCQ,  the media should be asking key questions, such as:

  • How does ONE person, by his own admission, block directives from his superiors to expand availability of HCQ for outpatients and nursing home patients in the U.S.?
  • What is the cost in lives and economic damage resulting from one person’s decision to restrict physicians’ independent medical decision-making?
  • How many nursing home deaths could have been prevented if physicians had been allowed early access to HCQ?
  • Why are U.S. doctors and nurses prevented from using HCQ prophylactically when workers in China, South Korea, India, Brazil, Argentina, Israel, Australia, Turkey, France, and other countries can be protected?
  • Why does the U.S. with its a much more sophisticated medical infrastructure have a much higher mortality rate than poor countries?

Bright’s disastrous bureaucratic decision may well be remembered as one of the worst preventable medical tragedies in our time. Never again should one government employee be allowed unrestrained power without oversight, and allowed to make a sweeping order interfering with the prescribing authority of front-line physicians trying to save lives."

https://aapsonline.org/fda-bureaucrat-brags-he-blocked-physician-prescribing-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-early-covid-19/

 

:Conclusions: Risk stratification-based treatment of COVID-19 outpatients as early as possible after symptom onset with the used triple therapy, including the combination of zinc with low dose hydroxychloroquine, was associated with significantly less hospitalizations and 5 times less all-cause deaths."

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1

 

 

Again demonstrated

Quote

steadfastly refuse to view literally any of the evidence that shows that it doesn't help treat covid.

 

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Davros of Skaro
23 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

 

 

 

Again demonstrated

 

What? Your left wing drivel.

"Dr. Steven Nissen, head of the Cleveland Clinic's department of cardiovascular medicine, has made a name for himself as an FDA watchdog in recent years."

"His critics seem to fear that a Nissen-run FDA would return it to the dreaded Kessler years, during which the approval process for devices and drugs was glacial and new treatments didn't get to patients nearly as fast as they should have. I don't think Nissen is so obtuse as to want to swing the pendulum that far in the other direction. But if the Democrats win the White House next year, there will certainly be pressure to nominate someone who's not nearly as friendly to industry as von Eschenbach, and Nissen could fit the bill."

https://www.mddionline.com/stub/steve-nissen-fda-watchdog-or-self-promoter

 

It's a shame that TDS people play with other peoples lives.

 

 

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