Hydroxychloroquine

[Imaginarynumber1]

2 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

What? Your left wing drivel.

"Dr. Steven Nissen, head of the Cleveland Clinic's department of cardiovascular medicine, has made a name for himself as an FDA watchdog in recent years."

"His critics seem to fear that a Nissen-run FDA would return it to the dreaded Kessler years, during which the approval process for devices and drugs was glacial and new treatments didn't get to patients nearly as fast as they should have. I don't think Nissen is so obtuse as to want to swing the pendulum that far in the other direction. But if the Democrats win the White House next year, there will certainly be pressure to nominate someone who's not nearly as friendly to industry as von Eschenbach, and Nissen could fit the bill."

https://www.mddionline.com/stub/steve-nissen-fda-watchdog-or-self-promoter

 

It's a shame that TDS people play with other peoples lives.

 

 

It's a shame that you can only see the world through a partisan lens

[Davros of Skaro]

1 minute ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

It's a shame that you can only see the world through a partisan lens

I'm outside the box looking at you, and seeing a lot of hypocracy. 

[Imaginarynumber1]

3 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

I'm outside the box looking at you, and seeing a lot of hypocracy. 

[Tatetopa]

I really don't think most of the  people pushing HCQ are doing it for the money, that doesn't necessarily mean they are right.

Why has health become a political issue and more fodder for conspiracy mills to run overtime?  Didn't we enter an age of medicine  and doctors and replace turtle shell rattles and demon chasers some time ago in our society?

I have been hearing from a lot of people, especially those associated with the Trump camp that coronavirus is no big deal, 99.5 percent of people that catch it recover just like they had the flu, just "automatically" as the president said.  So if 100% of the people that have coronavirus take HCQ (with zinc)  or eat Brussels sprouts and 99.5% of those people recover just like they had the flu, then HCQt has done nothing more than the Brussels Sprouts..  They would have done just as well without taking HCQ.  That is why real medical studies and not hearsay are important.

 

[Hankenhunter]

2 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

Exactly!

No, the worst side effect is death, frequently. Could he be any more misleading? 

[Peter B]

3 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

Self medicating was not implied. 

I didn't claim you implied it. I just wanted to be sure people understood the article said the results of the study weren't as clear-cut as "just hand out the HCQ".

[Imaginarynumber1]

1 hour ago, Davros of Skaro said:

Will you watch this video?

http://covexit.com/the-esteemed-professor-david-katz-weighs-in-on-hydroxychloroquine/

One or two doctors in not consensus. Could hydroxycholoroquine, in concert with other medications, lower risks associate with covid? Maybe, but it doesn't really look like it. In fact, most studies have shown that in is more likely to cause harm than it is to be beneficial. There is no reason to throw out a dozen negative results because you might have one good one. That's just plain ****ing ignorance and bad science. 

[Imaginarynumber1]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nation-s-testing-czar-it-s-time-move-talk-about-n1235600

 

Quote

WASHINGTON — Brett Giroir, the assistant secretary for health who coordinates the administration’s coronavirus testing, said Sunday that there is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine is an “effective” treatment for COVID-19, despite President Donald Trump’s repeated boosting of the drug over objections from experts.

In an interview on “Meet the Press,” Giroir did not specifically mention the president, but he made clear that the scientific consensus is that the drug does not help treat the disease.

 

[Hankenhunter]

Here's a few scientific links that may explain rabid Trumpism. This is just a few of the studies done on these deluded people.

https://www.psychologytoday.com › ...
An Analysis of Trump Supporters Has Identified 5 Key Traits | Psychology Today Canada

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits&ved=2ahUKEwiup7jMvf3qAhX2JzQIHYLsCIoQFjABegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw24N12ERrr8c1174oKduJth&cshid=1596404457879

https://www.psychologytoday.com › ...
A Complete Psychological Analysis of Trump's Support | Psychology Today Canada

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201812/complete-psychological-analysis-trumps-support&ved=2ahUKEwiup7jMvf3qAhX2JzQIHYLsCIoQFjACegQIBhAI&usg=AOvVaw0SIQmhw92P-sIbm9XyvimL&cshid=1596404457879

https://www.psypost.org › 2020/03
New study identifies a psychological factor linked to Trump supporters' vindictiveness - PsyPost

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.psypost.org/2020/03/new-study-identifies-a-psychological-factor-linked-to-trump-supporters-vindictiveness-56280&ved=2ahUKEwiup7jMvf3qAhX2JzQIHYLsCIoQFjADegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3SVIcD__TcghcRdECNaC8k&cshid=1596404457879

https://jspp.psychopen.eu › html
Social Psychological Perspectives on Trump Supporters | Pettigrew | Journal of Social and Political Psychology - PsychOpen

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/750/html&ved=2ahUKEwiup7jMvf3qAhX2JzQIHYLsCIoQFjAEegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0gpv0tav9DP19uwEYguDZO&cshid=1596404457879

This is the true TDS, not a childish name made up by uneducated morons who can't handle reality, so they make up their own. 

 

[Aroundthecorner]

Hasnt HCQ been around a while now, and all drugs carry side effects and warnings. Name one drug thats not about profit.

[stereologist]

On 8/2/2020 at 2:01 AM, bee said:

One could be forgiven for thinking that some wicked / evil people want to deny Americans the widespread use of hydroxychloroquine so that the death tally is high and they can point the finger at Trump and use it for political purposes... 

People could have lost family and friends and neighbours etc that might have survived if they had been given hydroxychloroquine.......  or might not have got it in the first place.....because the Democrats and their Globalist backers are desperate to win the election in November...

Imagine what the US public would think if they realize that could be going on... outrage doesn't come close...

I just saw and posted this tweet about India on another thread and it drives the point I'm making home...

 

And despite the use of HCQ in India the disease is still spiraling up in an exponential manner.

HCQ continues to be a failure in all cases except in the minds of the Trump/Bolsinaro impaired.

The evidence is clear HCQ is a failure, and more time and resources has been spent on this failure than should have been spent.

Many are dead because  of the vicious cries of those supporting the comments of the loser politicians being supported by these angry losers.

It is time to save lives and those still yelling HCQ are killing people in need.

 

[stereologist]

On 8/2/2020 at 3:00 AM, bee said:

 

 

It is flawed in that it was a retrospective study just like the VA study.

[stereologist]

On 8/5/2020 at 12:13 AM, Aroundthecorner said:

Hasnt HCQ been around a while now, and all drugs carry side effects and warnings. Name one drug thats not about profit.

Quite correct. We should be forewarned about all of those BS "herbal" or "natural" or whatever horse **** stories there are about no side effects. They of course are lies - lies for the dumb asses.

The dangers of HCQ are known. It destroys  your retina. it can hurt your heart.

The issue here is whether or not it addresses COVID-19. The evidence is clear. It does not. So the fact it has been used so many years is not of interest. It is not effective in COVID-19.

[Obviousman]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

The evidence is clear HCQ is a failure, and more time and resources has been spent on this failure than should have been spent.

I'd be careful their, and add context, else people would rightly say you were wrong. HCQ has been a success.. as treatment for other conditions. I'd amend it to read:

"The evidence is clear HCQ is a failure as a treatment for COVID-19...".

I think THAT s a statement that can be defended.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Obviousman

[stereologist]

2 minutes ago, Obviousman said:

I'd be careful their, and add context, else people would rightly say you were wrong. HCQ has been a success.. as treatment for other conditions. I'd amend it to read:

"The evidence is clear HCQ is a failure as a treatment for COVID-19...".

I think THAT s a statement that can be defended.

Absolutely correct! I usually post the context, and I  am so glad you reminded me of that.

[bee]

4 hours ago, Obviousman said:

I'd be careful their, and add context, else people would rightly say you were wrong. HCQ has been a success.. as treatment for other conditions. I'd amend it to read:

"The evidence is clear HCQ is a failure as a treatment for COVID-19...".

I think THAT s a statement that can be defended.

 

to expand on the bolded...

THAT should be,,,,, "very selective skewed evidence produced for political purposes shows HCQ is a failure as a treatment for COVID 19"

That's the only realistic statement he can defend ......

because doctors actually working with patients are using HCQ with success.....

variables in trials can be exploited to give skewed results... 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by bee

[ian hacktorp]

9 hours ago, bee said:

THAT should be,,,,, "very selective skewed evidence produced for political purposes shows HCQ is a failure as a treatment for COVID 19"

People attack the hardest that which threatens them the most.

From this we can conclude that hydroxchloroquine is one of the most beneficial and important medications on planet earth and has the real potential to put big pharma and the vaccine industry out of business.  There is no other explanation for the coordinated, vicious attacks on HCQ we see from captive media and their flunkies.

So every time we see another slavering, deranged diatribe against HCQ here on UM, we can think: "Wow, HCQ must be something pretty special."

And it is.

[stereologist]

13 hours ago, bee said:

 

to expand on the bolded...

THAT should be,,,,, "very selective skewed evidence produced for political purposes shows HCQ is a failure as a treatment for COVID 19"

That's the only realistic statement he can defend ......

because doctors actually working with patients are using HCQ with success.....

variables in trials can be exploited to give skewed results... 

 

 

That's nonsense and you should know that.

HCQ has failed and failed and failed despite many tests. There is nothing selective about this. There is no skewing of the evidence.

No doctors are using HCQ with success. There are frauds like Zelenko who is obviously a liar as he claims 100% cures. He has not published anything, but his lies do attract those with a political motive to beat this dead horse.

If there is success then publish the results. Show people the success. CQ is about as useful as oleander or probiotic yogurt suppositories or bathing in cow dung.

[stereologist]

There are no studies showing that HCQ cures COVID-19. Yet, there are the foolish that can't get over the fact that HCQ is a failure.

What possible political motive could they have to promote a failure? Is this about wasting resources on a dead issue? Is this about killing more people?

What is the motive for promoting this failed drug?

There are plenty of other failed drugs out there for the treatment of COVID-19. That's okay there are plenty more to go.

[Emma_Acid]

On 8/21/2020 at 4:31 PM, ian hacktorp said:

People attack the hardest that which threatens them the most.

From this we can conclude that hydroxchloroquine is one of the most beneficial and important medications on planet earth and has the real potential to put big pharma and the vaccine industry out of business.  There is no other explanation for the coordinated, vicious attacks on HCQ we see from captive media and their flunkies.

So every time we see another slavering, deranged diatribe against HCQ here on UM, we can think: "Wow, HCQ must be something pretty special."

And it is.

I do wish people who made this sort of claim self-checked their logic before waving their opinions around in public. One of the things they never consider when airing a conspiracy like this, is - what would the situation look like if my opponents were actually right?

In the example of HCQ, the "coordinated, vicious attacks" might just be because it doesn't actually work and is being touted by populist politicians desperate for a distracting win, and yet Mr Hacktorp uses these attacks as evidence that the counter is true.

Scenario A of "a drug not working and being touted by politicians desperate for a distracting win" and Scenario B of "extensive worldwide conspiracy to keep miracle drug off the market" have the same outward appearance to people like Mr Hacktorp; without any actual evidence for the latter, we have to assume - again - that he is just bringing pre-existing biases to the argument. See our lengthy exchange on Bill Gates for further examples.

[stereologist]

Those pushing HCQ do it due to their personal ignorance if they are not in it to kill more people.

 

[stereologist]

Here is more stupidity for Trump losers to promote:oleander.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/935994?nlid=136964_4622&src=WNL_mdplsnews_200821_mscpedit_nurs&uac=389284HY&spon=24&impID=2518393&faf=1

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8634557/Donald-Trump-wants-FDA-approve-oleander-plant-extract-drug-cure-Covid-19.html

Quote

Alarmed health officials say Donald Trump is pushing for FDA approval of an oleander plant extract to cure coronavirus.

It's one stupid snake oil sales effort after anoter by Trump.

https://www.newsweek.com/what-oleandrin-trump-wants-fda-approve-plant-extract-1525503

Quote

During the meeting, Trump "basically said: ...'The FDA should be approving it,'" Lindell told Axios.

 

[stereologist]

And HCQ fails in another study.

Or more correctly a study once again shows HCQ not be effective in dealing with the current COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/world/hcq-hydroxychloroquine-ineffective-as-preventive-antiviral-against-covid-19-study-642972

Quote

New research adds to the growing body of evidence that how the famous anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is not a possible defence against Covid-19. The study, published in the journal Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases, found that HCQ is not effective in preventing COVID-19 in patients with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis (RA), suggesting a broader interpretation of HCQ as ineffective preventive medicine for the general population.

 

[ian hacktorp]

17 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

I do wish people who made this sort of claim self-checked their logic before waving their opinions around in public. One of the things they never consider when airing a conspiracy like this, is - what would the situation look like if my opponents were actually right?

In the example of HCQ, the "coordinated, vicious attacks" might just be because it doesn't actually work and is being touted by populist politicians desperate for a distracting win, and yet Mr Hacktorp uses these attacks as evidence that the counter is true.

Scenario A of "a drug not working and being touted by politicians desperate for a distracting win" and Scenario B of "extensive worldwide conspiracy to keep miracle drug off the market" have the same outward appearance to people like Mr Hacktorp; without any actual evidence for the latter, we have to assume - again - that he is just bringing pre-existing biases to the argument. See our lengthy exchange on Bill Gates for further examples.

You give such wise and sound advice, Emma...you'd do well to start taking it yourself.

Can you explain how any "populist politician" would achieve a distracting win (or any sort of win) by touting a medicinal cure that "doesn't actually work"?  That appears to make no sense whatsoever and is, in fact, highly counter-intuitive.  But you seem to have it all figured out, so please explain.

Also, Trump has announced a major bit of breaking treatment news will be revealed tonight, so this story continues to heat up.  Will he release study results on HCQ?  Is there another ionophore, like HCQ, which has been tested and proven effective?  Invermectin has been mentioned as a possibility.

The use of ionophoric agents, like HCQ, to aid the passage of anti-virals like zinc into cells is THE bugaboo that has the pharmaceutical and vaccine industry in such a tizzy.  For them, it represents a true existential crisis.  That's why they are sh!tting themselves silly over this.

"HCQ must be something pretty special."

Lol...

Edited August 23, 2020 by ian hacktorp

[stereologist]

Despite the fact that Trump has pushed HCQ and asked other people to push this failed drug a well it remains a failed drug.

Nothing of value has been posted to support the use of this drug.

And now Trump is pushing another failure - oleander.

Regardless of the vacuous claims of HCQ acting as an ionophore, studies show it does not work on COVID-19. It simply does not work. It has failed and yet the Trump's stooges continue to push this failure.

And here is Trump's next idiotic plan.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/oleandra-the-new-covid-snake-oil/

Quote

This is a new twist on an old scam. The pattern, as we have reported previously, is now well-established. A CAM entrepreneur secures a supply of an obscure natural product that has little to no current market value. Once they have essentially cornered the market they then promote the useless product as an exotic natural cure for whatever. They do this through the usual channels, but the holy grail is to get exposure through a CAM celebrity, like Dr. Oz. Once Dr. Oz features your product on his show, you rake in the snake oil lucre.

That appears to be what is happening with oleandrin, except the celebrity snake oil peddler is the president. He has a lot of influence on his followers, and perhaps even some influence with the FDA to boot. Look what happened with hydroxychloroquine.