Elon Musk Thinks Aliens Built the Pyramids

[Chronus]

6 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Have you heard of the Bronze Horseman in St Petersburg?

The Bronze Horseman stands on a big stone, the greatest stone, the Thunder Stone.

I don't believe I've heard of it.

[jethrofloyd]

Elon was a little bit under a 'influence' when he said that. 

[ShadowSot]

4 hours ago, Chronus said:

I don't believe I've heard of it.

The Thunderstine is to date the heaviest piece of stone ever moved by manpower alone. 

[Hanslune]

21 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

The Thunderstine is to date the heaviest piece of stone ever moved by manpower alone. 

https://www.ancientpages.com/2018/06/14/the-thunder-stone-worlds-largest-monolith-moved-by-man/

 

[jethrofloyd]

1 hour ago, ShadowSot said:

The Thunderstine is to date the heaviest piece of stone ever moved by manpower alone. 

Is that Thunderstine realy heavier than Balback Rock Megalith?

 

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

Is that Thunderstine realy heavier than Balback Rock Megalith?

 

It would appear so, the thunder was of granite and the ones in Baalbek's quarry were limestone.

[ShadowSot]

4 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

Is that Thunderstine realy heavier than Balback Rock Megalith?

 

Thunderstone: 1500 Stones at excavation 

At Baalbeck, the stone pictured is still in the quarry. 

 The pictured one is called the Stone of the Pregnant woman. It's roughly 1000 tons. 

 The second is a little over 1200.

 A recently discovered quarried block is indeed heavier, over 1600 tons. 

 But it's worth noting: these three blocks are stuck at the quarry. 

 The actual blocks that went into the Baalbek temple are much lighter. 

[Thanos5150]

4 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Thunderstone: 1500 Stones at excavation 

At Baalbeck, the stone pictured is still in the quarry. 

 The pictured one is called the Stone of the Pregnant woman. It's roughly 1000 tons. 

 The second is a little over 1200.

 A recently discovered quarried block is indeed heavier, over 1600 tons. 

 But it's worth noting: these three blocks are stuck at the quarry. 

 The actual blocks that went into the Baalbek temple are much lighter. 

The three that comprise the "Trilithon" are estimated at 800 tons each and the blocks of the row directly below it around 400 tons.  There is also an underreported "courtyard" wall at ground level that also utilizes very large blocks:

Overhead View.

[ShadowSot]

3 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

The three that comprise the "Trilithon" are estimated at 800 tons each and the blocks of the row directly below it around 400 tons.  There is also an underreported "courtyard" wall at ground level that also utilizes very large blocks:

Overhead View.

Yes. 800 tons is a lot of weight, but still much less than the 1500 of the Thunderstone, or the other stones left in the Quarry. It's still more weight loved over all.

 

[jaylemurph]

21 hours ago, Hanslune said:

It would appear so, the thunder was of granite and the ones in Baalbek's quarry were limestone.

That’s funny. I learned the Latin word for limestone today: calx.

The diminutive is calculus, a little rock used for counting. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Thanos5150]

On 10/16/2020 at 10:52 PM, ShadowSot said:

Yes. 800 tons is a lot of weight, but still much less than the 1500 of the Thunderstone, or the other stones left in the Quarry. It's still more weight loved over all.

 

Whoever could move three 800 ton blocks, not to mention many 300-400 ton blocks, I am sure could move at least one 1000 or 1200 ton block. And as far as the 1600 ton block goes, if we cut it in half we get two 800 ton blocks do we not? And a perfect match when placed end to end no less.    

As reported in La Nature in 1882, the 1500 ton weight of the Thunderstone is calculated using the density of granite and the dimensions of 7 x 14 x 9 meters. But as La Nature also notes is that the stone was an "irregular prism" shape and the dimensions given are it's largest points. So was this weight derived from what basically amounts to putting an irregular "prism" shaped rock in a 7 x 14 x 9 box and then calculating the weight of the rock from the dimensions of the box, not the rock itself, which would obviously not be an accurate measurement of the rock? Or was the missing volume of the rock vs the box factored in to give this estimate? If not then how much less weight would it be-10? 20%? Also, the density of granite varies by how much quartz is in it so where the granite is found can affect its weight which leaves the question what density of granite was used? They also carved it along its journey which supposedly whittled it down to 1250 tons which for the same reasons above is suspect as well. 

From a technical perspective I don't think it matters if the Thunderstone was 1500 or 1200 tons, or 1000 or less tons as it was being moved, but it is surprising how little scrutiny this reported weight has received.

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Thanos5150

[Golden Duck]

If we click the little arrow  you can follow the little sub-thread that originates, at post #116, with a UMember's belief that " ... its [sic] very un-likely that the Egyptians could move all those 2 ton rocks."

Whether, or not, the Thunder Stone holds the top place in the list of biggest moved rocks - it still demonstrates the GP Construction Project could've been divided into a series of smaller achievable tasks.

[ShadowSot]

9 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

Whoever could move three 800 ton blocks, not to mention many 300-400 ton blocks, I am sure could move at least one 1000 or 1200 ton block. And as far as the 1600 ton block goes, if we cut it in half we get two 800 ton blocks do we not? And a perfect match when placed end to end no less.    

Can't comment on the rest of it, but I don't agree with your logic here. 

 I can lift and move my lathe pretty easily, it's around 100 odd pounds. But if you were to tack on another 20 I'd be relying on tools to move it. 

 There's a limit, is my point, and it isn't necessarily a huge amount. 

 Why they cut fresh stone instead of repurposing the other stones, don't know. 

 I know a number of unfinished Megalith weren't repurposed through history, even as the quarries remained active. So I assume there's a reason. 

 

[Thanos5150]

1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

If we click the little arrow  you can follow the little sub-thread that originates, at post #116, with a UMember's belief that " ... its [sic] very un-likely that the Egyptians could move all those 2 ton rocks."

Whether, or not, the Thunder Stone holds the top place in the list of biggest moved rocks - it still demonstrates the GP Construction Project could've been divided into a series of smaller achievable tasks.

I fail to see how the Thunderstone has anything to do with pyramid building in the first place. If it is brought up just as an uber "heavy" stone that humans moved with manpower there are many to prove the point in Egypt during the relevant OK and before let alone elsewhere. In the 1st Dynasty a portcullis door of some 15 tons was used. At Saqqara a granite block upwards of 30 tons. The limestone core of the Valley Temple is made of many blocks in the 100 ton range. There is a block in Khafre's mortuary temple Silotti and Hawass estimate at 400 tons. Blocks in Menkaure's mortuary temple at 220 tons. Ceiling blocks in the burial chamber of Sahure are estimated around 200 tons. Pages could be written on all of the stones used by the megalithic builders of Europe and the greater Mediterranean before the pyramids were built that date date as much as two millennium earlier, say like the Le Grande Menhir in France c. 4500BC weighing approximately 330 tons and depending on where it was quarried moved 6 to 50 miles. The notion humans could not move heavy weights being the reason the AE could not have built the pyramids is the realm of the hopelessly ignorant and should be beneath legitimate discussions at this point.  

[Thanos5150]

13 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Can't comment on the rest of it, but I don't agree with your logic here. 

 I can lift and move my lathe pretty easily, it's around 100 odd pounds. But if you were to tack on another 20 I'd be relying on tools to move it.  

There's a limit, is my point, and it isn't necessarily a huge amount. 

But this is not a limit for you-you figured out another way to do it to get you over the hump. For a culture to be able to move 800 tons I am confident in their ability to figure out how to move a few hundred more which the stones in the quarry imply this was their intention. 

 

[Hanslune]

36 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Can't comment on the rest of it, but I don't agree with your logic here. 

 I can lift and move my lathe pretty easily, it's around 100 odd pounds. But if you were to tack on another 20 I'd be relying on tools to move it. 

 There's a limit, is my point, and it isn't necessarily a huge amount. 

 Why they cut fresh stone instead of repurposing the other stones, don't know. 

 I know a number of unfinished Megalith weren't repurposed through history, even as the quarries remained active. So I assume there's a reason. 

 

Yeah they may have been able to move a heavier weight but we see no evidence that they did

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

The heaviest rock that we know the anciented moved was 1,000 tons, the Russian stone was 1,250 and they did use some technology the Egyptian didn't have.

Ramesseum https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaofa00diet/page/196/mode/2upand

It was moved by Ramses II (probably)

It was the heaviest stone anyone was able to move and they only moved one but they alleged moved it a far distance. They probably did so as it was probably very difficult to do.

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, Thanos5150 said:

I fail to see how the Thunderstone has anything to do with pyramid building in the first place. If it is brought up just as an uber "heavy" stone that humans moved with manpower there are many to prove the point in Egypt during the relevant OK and before let alone elsewhere. In the 1st Dynasty a portcullis door of some 15 tons was used. At Saqqara a granite block upwards of 30 tons. The limestone core of the Valley Temple is made of many blocks in the 100 ton range. There is a block in Khafre's mortuary temple Silotti and Hawass estimate at 400 tons. Blocks in Menkaure's mortuary temple at 220 tons. Ceiling blocks in the burial chamber of Sahure are estimated around 200 tons. Pages could be written on all of the stones used by the megalithic builders of Europe and the greater Mediterranean before the pyramids were built that date date as much as two millennium earlier, say like the Le Grande Menhir in France c. 4500BC weighing approximately 330 tons and depending on where it was quarried moved 6 to 50 miles. The notion humans could not move heavy weights being the reason the AE could not have built the pyramids is the realm of the hopelessly ignorant and should be beneath legitimate discussions at this point.  

 In scholarly areas, I am certain. This is a fringe forum where people get chronically astonished at depictions of handbags. 

 As such the Thunderstone is useful as an example of a stone, much heavier than any present in the pyramids, being moved by manpower in relatively recent and recorded history. 

 (Granted I've read a few accounts where people reject the claim and insist its all geopolymer.) 

 

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, Thanos5150 said:

I fail to see how the Thunderstone has anything to do with pyramid building in the first place. If it is brought up just as an uber "heavy" stone that humans moved with manpower there are many to prove the point in Egypt during the relevant OK and before let alone elsewhere. In the 1st Dynasty a portcullis door of some 15 tons was used. At Saqqara a granite block upwards of 30 tons. The limestone core of the Valley Temple is made of many blocks in the 100 ton range. There is a block in Khafre's mortuary temple Silotti and Hawass estimate at 400 tons. Blocks in Menkaure's mortuary temple at 220 tons. Ceiling blocks in the burial chamber of Sahure are estimated around 200 tons. Pages could be written on all of the stones used by the megalithic builders of Europe and the greater Mediterranean before the pyramids were built that date date as much as two millennium earlier, say like the Le Grande Menhir in France c. 4500BC weighing approximately 330 tons and depending on where it was quarried moved 6 to 50 miles. The notion humans could not move heavy weights being the reason the AE could not have built the pyramids is the realm of the hopelessly ignorant and should be beneath legitimate discussions at this point.  

The point is not the rocks, it's the people.

[ShadowSot]

53 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

But this is not a limit for you-you figured out another way to do it to get you over the hump. For a culture to be able to move 800 tons I am confident in their ability to figure out how to move a few hundred more which the stones in the quarry imply this was their intention. 

 

Actually my example was that if it was heavier I'd be stumped, except I set up in a factory so I have access to a forklift. 

The point is that I have limits in my own capability. 200 or more tons is a lot of extra weight, and something capable of being done at 800 tons doesn't necessarily transfer to something 200 tons more. 

 More, I can carry over my lathe, workbench, and tool box. I can't lift all of them at once. It's a simple limit of that method. Even if I could lift their combined weight, it'd be to unwieldy to move. 

 We have a forklift that can, technically, lift 3 tons. We would never use it to lift that weight, though, because of other problems. It's technically capable of doing so, but the realistic capability is 2,and safely is 1.5. 

[ShadowSot]

50 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Yeah they may have been able to move a heavier weight but we see no evidence that they did

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

The heaviest rock that we know the anciented moved was 1,000 tons, the Russian stone was 1,250 and they did use some technology the Egyptian didn't have.

Ramesseum https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaofa00diet/page/196/mode/2upand

It was moved by Ramses II (probably)

It was the heaviest stone anyone was able to move and they only moved one but they alleged moved it a far distance. They probably did so as it was probably very difficult to do.

Yeah I'm sure safety, reliability, and practicality go up when you have an ego project and the power to throw around for it. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by ShadowSot

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, ShadowSot said:

Yeah I'm sure safety, reliability, and practicality go up when you have an ego project and the power to throw around for it. 

Yeah, Ramses comes across as a complete milksop and wimp; I mean fighting battles, conquering, diplomatic deals, building a new city, a hundred or so children, doing this and that, .....I suspect he ordered it done and somehow they did it - I wonder how long it took to move it that distance - but then they never moved anything that heavy again. No body did.

[ShadowSot]

44 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Yeah, Ramses comes across as a complete milksop and wimp; I mean fighting battles, conquering, diplomatic deals, building a new city, a hundred or so children, doing this and that, .....I suspect he ordered it done and somehow they did it - I wonder how long it took to move it that distance - but then they never moved anything that heavy again. No body did.

Eh? I wasn't implying he was a milksop. I'm not one of the chew toys, no reason to snark at me. 

 You're also underlining my point. He was a powerful pharaoh with a powerful ego, and could turn that power towards large scale ego projects. 

 I only quickly refreshed, but it seems my memory is right that there appear to have been at least a few more of the collossi that simply didn't survive to the modern day. 

[Hanslune]

9 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Eh? I wasn't implying he was a milksop. I'm not one of the chew toys, no reason to snark at me. 

 You're also underlining my point. He was a powerful pharaoh with a powerful ego, and could turn that power towards large scale ego projects. 

 I only quickly refreshed, but it seems my memory is right that there appear to have been at least a few more of the collossi that simply didn't survive to the modern day. 

No snark intended, sarcasm at the general idea only. No offense meant!

[ShadowSot]

7 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

No snark intended, sarcasm at the general idea only. No offense meant!

Ah OK, none taken then. Sorry. 

 

I'm going to check the references to other similar sized statues of his when I have time. The wiki mentions possibly four too fragmented to be certain of their size. 

 

[Hanslune]

8 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Ah OK, none taken then. Sorry. 

 

I'm going to check the references to other similar sized statues of his when I have time. The wiki mentions possibly four too fragmented to be certain of their size. 

 

That is certainly a possibility