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spartan max2

Gallup Poll: Black Americans and Police

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spartan max2

This recent Gallup is interesting given the recent racial and political events.

I encourage others to look at the link, there is more in the poll but unfortunately my copy and paste is being a hassel for some reason. 

 

The two main bullet points

Quote

81% want police to spend same or more time in their area. 

Big racial gap in views of police fairness and violence.

 

 

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-retain-local-presence.aspx

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third_eye
23 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Excessively harassed and ignored at the same time. 

It's not the uniform, it's who is wearing it. 

~

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spartan max2
42 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Think that's a separate issue from police brutality.  Here's an article that pretty well sums it up:  https://www.vox.com/2015/4/14/8411733/black-community-policing-crime

Excessively harassed and ignored at the same time. 

 

That would probably be related to this question in the link 

 

 

Confidence About Receiving Positive Treatment by Police
If you had an interaction with police in your area, how confident are you that they would treat you with courtesy and respect?
  Very confident Somewhat confident Not too confident Not at all confident
  % % % %
GALLUP PANEL, JUNE 23-JULY 6, 2020
Black Americans 18 43 27 12
White Americans 56 35 7 2
Hispanic Americans 40 37 17 5
Asian Americans 24 54 16 6
U.S. adults 48 37 11 4
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Hugh Mungus

It certainly runs against the narrative in the MSM. 

The silent majority

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Hankenhunter
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

It's not the uniform, it's who is wearing it. 

~

I have to disagree in part. The uniform gives them the power. Power corrupts. Not everyone, but more than enough to give them all a bad name. Then there's the code of silence that goes with the uniform. The blue line has powerful backers. Step over the line , and you soon wish you didn't. 

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Piney
37 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

I have to disagree in part. The uniform gives them the power. Power corrupts. Not everyone, but more than enough to give them all a bad name. Then there's the code of silence that goes with the uniform. The blue line has powerful backers. Step over the line , and you soon wish you didn't. 

Power doesn't corrupt. It attracts the corruptible and being a cop is magnetic to pathological personalities. 

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third_eye
39 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

The uniform gives them the power.

Nope, the uniform 'represents' authority, the power is still the law. 

The law can only reach as far as justice can see, but justice is blind, therefore relies on the people for sight. 

If justice fails, 'the people' failed. 

~

 

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Gwynbleidd
3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

This recent Gallup is interesting given the recent racial and political events.

Hi Max I've always wanted to ask this question re: polls, any type of polls... .......how can Americans feel confident about what Polls say today, after what happened with the Polls in 2016?

Isn't there a distrust there?  

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RavenHawk
32 minutes ago, Gwynbleidd said:

Hi Max I've always wanted to ask this question re: polls, any type of polls... .......how can Americans feel confident about what Polls say today, after what happened with the Polls in 2016?

Isn't there a distrust there?  

I have very high confidence because of 2016.  If it is something the MSM is against, then the truth in the polls are the opposite of the results.

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Gwynbleidd
3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I have very high confidence because of 2016.  If it is something the MSM is against, then the truth in the polls are the opposite of the results.

Let me know if I understood you correctly or not please.  When you see polling numbers put out by the MSM, you see it as the opposite of what they're saying?  Therefore, if the polls say Trump is down in the Polls, it means he's up in the Polls.  I feel a bit weird saying that, but you know what I mean! :lol:  So basically you have to decipher what the MSM is giving the public. 

I thought that people would be very wary of polls now, simply because the polls used to say that Clinton was a shoe in for President in 2016 which ended up being a load of bs.  I guess I don't understand why anyone would trust polls today, given they've gotten it wrong so much in the past, let alone the MSM reporting on polls is most likely skewed to make it sound more favourable to how they want it portrayed anyway.  I know, I sure as hell don't trust the media anymore, and I personally don't trust polls either.  I don't trust where they're getting their info either.  

When was the last time any of you guys in here were called up and polled, let alone know someone else who was polled!  :P 

Someone is going to reply and say they were polled just last week.....I know it! :lol:

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Jerry Gallo
7 hours ago, Gwynbleidd said:

Hi Max I've always wanted to ask this question re: polls, any type of polls... .......how can Americans feel confident about what Polls say today, after what happened with the Polls in 2016?

Isn't there a distrust there?  

Gallup's polling is always interesting and fairly trustworthy, as their info and articles usually discuss social issues, not necessarily solely political ones. Of course there is overlap, but they seem to try and provide a solid and fair base of respondents.

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Jerry Gallo
9 hours ago, third_eye said:

It's not the uniform, it's who is wearing it. 

~

Agree, the individual who is wearing it.

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Jerry Gallo
10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Think that's a separate issue from police brutality.  Here's an article that pretty well sums it up:  https://www.vox.com/2015/4/14/8411733/black-community-policing-crime

Excessively harassed and ignored at the same time. 

 

What does your article have to to with police brutality?

Here are the intellectually dishonest opinions in the article...

Blames excessive deaths of blacks in urban areas on police not finding the killers AFTER the murder occurs. Two flaws with that logic...one the obvious that murderers are responsible for murder and two, when police detectives try and investigate these crimes, the "snitches get stitches" mentality takes over giving LE no credible leads to investigate. It doesn't matter if you have one cop investigating or 100, if the witness clams up, what is LE expected to do? Additionally, stop and frisk and other targeted police measures worked wonders in NYC...until they eliminated it and now crime is back on the rise. There likely is some unfair profiling in stop and frisk, but is it out of overt racism or is it based on statistical trends? And if the ends justify the means...say 60% less black deaths in the community for a handful of people feeling disrespected when they are completely innocent in a stop and frisk...is that a worthy trade off? We had these same questions with terrorism and the Patriot Act. In an ideal world, do I want to endure offensive inconvenience, bordering on violation of my rights? Of course not. But it isn't an ideal world, in fact, it's one that is being turned upside down by bad actors. Hence, if I have to relent to keep myself and YOU alive based on the circumstances, the ends justify the means. The only other two options are a full metal jacket approach towards the bad actors or the forbidden pacification of them. At the end of the day, bad is a choice, you punish that choice individually whether they are cop or crook.

Only a leftist editorial can blame both things at the same time...which tells us, the answer is dependent on which one excuses the person involved. For example, if it is a driver with a taillight out who is found with five pounds of heroin, they are excessively harassed. If it is a mother who has lost all three of her sons to heroin overdoses, she feels ignored. It seems the left insists on leaning towards the driver over the mother these days...let it burn, so to speak. 

It also links to the DOJ investigation of Ferguson, MO that cleared Darren Wilson in the Michael Brown shooting death, even as they allowed a new hot shot prosecutor to review the case and possibly bring charges against Wilson in spite of that clearance (he declined). The flaws within that DOJ report...of the six things cited, only one indicates legitimate malfeasance, the racist humor circulated by public officials who should have been fired on the spot. There was a half-truth regarding the fines for crimes as a stream of revenue for the city, but that is a common and ill-formed practice in a lot of city of STL suburbs that isn't based on race. Many of us locally have asked for years what purpose this money grab serves to fine people for nonsense when they can't afford it only exacerbating the problems. The rest of the DOJ report was tripe, not because you or Vox presented it in this particular discussion, it was evaluated when it first came out.

Ferguson is part of North St. Louis County, not unique among many of the local independent municipalities in that it's residents cannot be broken down to black and white in relative equality when it comes to crime evaluation. DOJ tries to portray blacks being overly policed comparing x number of incidents compared to representing y percentage of the population. The issue with that is that the majority of the white people in Ferguson are 50+ year old lifelong residents who aren't out and about as much as the far younger black population. This would be like saying "the nursing home of 100 residents has far less crime in white rural America than the trailer park next to it". One must dive deeper to get to the actual root of the problem.  With that said, Ferguson has some warts that need exposed, warts indicative of a lot of urban LE/community problems that need solutions. Small community with low tax base, a lot of crime and poverty, who can't afford veteran police required to maintain law and order with a significant crime-laden housing project. Most of the cops there are white kids right out of the police academy who, like Darren Wilson, grew up going to high school with black kids, but never experienced the environment prevalent in places like Ferguson.

Ideally, Ferguson would employ veteran black police from within or nearby communities. Issue is, when you look at the pool of citizens who can fill these jobs...removing the criminals, the absentee fathers, the folks who aren't interested in public service, and those who know that the instant they become police, they are the enemy (sellouts, Uncle Toms) - there are few if any candidates familiar with the environment, willing to take on the risk and the hassle and dedicated to fair but strict enforcement of law. Instead, it is just easier to blame white people, the system, and all the other lazy straw arguments. We've seen this same narrative as far back as one can remember...Al Sharpton/Tawana Brawley goes back a long way. We can agree there are issues with race and power, what is the scope. Probably somewhere between where Vox and Breitbart puts it.

It may seem I am simply being contrary towards you or the movement, can't help if that's what you think. I'm just frankly tired of the same old nonsense. Does one want to (appear to) be right or superior in discussion or do they want to SOLVE problems? Do we continue having the same argument or do we change things? Defunding police, disarming them, heaping more of the blame on them...none of these things are going to get 99% of the criminals to stop being criminals. And while we can agree one George Floyd is one too many, changing the entire system to eliminate the one-offs is not a solution for thinking people, it's a piece of Scotch tape placed on the crack of Hoover Dam. Look at the number of deaths in Portland - there can only be one reason the life of George Floyd matters more than the lives of those in Portland...activism. When that is no longer the case, perhaps left and right will engage in meaningful, concerted effort. Until then, it will remain a standoff where no one wins, especially the law abiding citizen.

 

 

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Gromdor
14 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Think that's a separate issue from police brutality

 

2 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

What does your article have to to with police brutality?

It has nothing to do with police brutality.............

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Jerry Gallo
2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

 

It has nothing to do with police brutality.............

Confused by why brutality was brought up then.

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Myles
17 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

That would probably be related to this question in the link 

 

 

Confidence About Receiving Positive Treatment by Police
If you had an interaction with police in your area, how confident are you that they would treat you with courtesy and respect?
  Very confident Somewhat confident Not too confident Not at all confident
  % % % %
GALLUP PANEL, JUNE 23-JULY 6, 2020
Black Americans 18 43 27 12
White Americans 56 35 7 2
Hispanic Americans 40 37 17 5
Asian Americans 24 54 16 6
U.S. adults 48 37 11 4

Interesting that 61% of black people are confident.  

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spartan max2
3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Interesting that 61% of black people are confident.  

Yeah. There is definitely a difference between the 91 percent confident with white people but 61 percent is still a majority. 

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Myles
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Yeah. There is definitely a difference between the 91 percent confident with white people but 61 percent is still a majority. 

I would bet that if the poll removed people from rural areas, the white confidence votes would be much closer to the black.  

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Big Jim

In almost any brush with the law the outcome depends less on "the law" and more on the personalities and prejudices of the people representing the law, from cops to judges to jurors.  There's a science to picking jurors but all the public focus is on the cops.  

One of the common complaints when it comes to the police and blacks is that there aren't enough black cops.  But they never seem to recognize that it's because not enough blacks apply for the job.  Cops aren't drafted.  In many places there is a shortage of recruits.  No one is being turned away due to racism.  Blacks have no trouble being fairly represented or even more in the careers they aspire to.

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spartan max2
4 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

There's a science to picking jurors but all the public focus is on the cops.  

I would take that even a step further with that alot of cases never even get to a jury. A judge just decides.

Judges have a ton of power that we don't really give much scrutiny to.

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Big Jim
57 minutes ago, Myles said:

I would bet that if the poll removed people from rural areas, the white confidence votes would be much closer to the black.  

I'm not so sure.  A lot of rural cops work with much fewer layers of supervision than a city cop.  I live in a rural area and I am extremely reluctant to meet any cops so I act in ways that don't draw their attention.  It seems like it would be much easier to have an entirely corrupt force of 6 men than a few thousand.  If the chief is biased so is the town.  If I have any confidence in a meeting with police going well it is based more on my behavior than theirs.

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aztek
Posted (edited)

naw, blacks don't know sht,  white democrats (blm) know better what is good for blacks,  they don't need no stinking cops

Edited by aztek

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Myles
13 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I'm not so sure.  A lot of rural cops work with much fewer layers of supervision than a city cop.  I live in a rural area and I am extremely reluctant to meet any cops so I act in ways that don't draw their attention.  It seems like it would be much easier to have an entirely corrupt force of 6 men than a few thousand.  If the chief is biased so is the town.  If I have any confidence in a meeting with police going well it is based more on my behavior than theirs.

Since there is much less crime in rural areas and many people know the cops and their families it is more relaxed.   Most black people live in the cities where most of these killings have taken place.   There are white people living in the poor parts of the city too.

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Big Jim
18 minutes ago, Myles said:

Since there is much less crime in rural areas and many people know the cops and their families it is more relaxed.   Most black people live in the cities where most of these killings have taken place.   There are white people living in the poor parts of the city too.

I've lived in all those areas you mention.  I have managed to avoid contact with the police by not acting stupid.  I had a white brother in law who was stupid.  He had just as much contact with the police as any inner city gang member.  And poor outcomes because he kept acting stupid after the police contacted him.  Police respond to what is going on around them.  A person's color doesn't attract their interest near as much as a person's behavior.

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